options
 

Party Poker 30/60 Hold'em (10 handed) pokerhand.org hand converter

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. CO posts a blind of $30.
UTG calls, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, MP3 calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, SB calls, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (11 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP3 calls, SB folds, BB calls, UTG folds.

Turn: (7 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP3 calls, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, MP3 calls, BB calls.

River: (16 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, Hero

Re: options
 

you're beat on this river every time. check call and fold to a checkraise. betting and then folding is nuts. see a showdown for 1 bet or dont see it at all.

Barron

Re: options
 

[ QUOTE ]
you're beat on this river every time. check call and fold to a checkraise. betting and then folding is nuts. see a showdown for 1 bet or dont see it at all.

Barron

[/ QUOTE ]

I do not think check calling is bad at all, but if MP is a bad player there are some hands he could have here that we beat. If MP is solid then I think you got it nailed.

Re: options
 

Wow. Half the respondants to the poll bet/call? What can MP possibly have?

Re: options
 

[ QUOTE ]
Wow. Half the respondants to the poll bet/call? What can MP possibly have?

[/ QUOTE ]

i totally missed MP being in the pot [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Re: options
 

I don't know, i guess i've been playing with people that suck too bad lately, check/calling is probably the best play, and by probably i mean is.

However i disagree with decifer when he says "you are beat every time" Although I don't play online 30/60, couldn't he have something like AQs, 8T spades, or even more likely JT of spades? Maybe I just don't know cause I don't know the game, but at 10, 15 and even 20-40 limits this could easily be the case.

Re: options
 

[ QUOTE ]
I don't know, i guess i've been playing with people that suck too bad lately, check/calling is probably the best play, and by probably i mean is.

However i disagree with decifer when he says "you are beat every time" Although I don't play online 30/60, couldn't he have something like AQs, 8T spades, or even more likely JT of spades? Maybe I just don't know cause I don't know the game, but at 10, 15 and even 20-40 limits this could easily be the case.

[/ QUOTE ]

in my experience at 30/60 on party (120k+hands) ive never seen a bet call line here win the pot.

further, of the hands ive not been in but seen OR been in myself on a board such as seen, if MP calls flop calls 2 cold on the turn after calling once there is no other hand he has here otehr than the flush draw and id lay odds on that. the flush came in, let him bet and see the showdown for 1 bet or dont see it at all. if you bet and are raised you're beat almost surely but need to call due to pot size especially if the OOP guy calls. therefore, check and call, fold if MP bets and OOP guy raises.

the addendum here is that MP3 has not done anything rediculously retarded in the time at the table. clearly the 40+/20+/1+s will have a wider range. assuming the MP3 is not one of them, you're toast.

Barron

Re: options
 

I voted for betfold. Betcalling is insane. Checkcalling seems like it has no advantages over betfold at all.

Re: options
 

[ QUOTE ]
I voted for betfold. Betcalling is insane. Checkcalling seems like it has no advantages over betfold at all.

[/ QUOTE ]

it allows you to save a bet and fold to a c'r w/o costing you a bet

and a bet only earns you money from OOP guy since MP3s hand is virtually perfectly well defined.

further, if MP3 bets a hand you beat you get an effective overcall from OOP guy

Barron

Re: options
 

i voted bet/fold, cause thats what id do... if it was a live 30, id prob check/fold, but on the net i cant see putting in zero bets on the end here. i cant see how check/calling can be a good play.

Re: options
 

[ QUOTE ]
i cant see how check/calling can be a good play.

[/ QUOTE ]

MP won't bet AQ, AJ, Two pair, or 8T even 1 in 18 times?

Re: options
 

[ QUOTE ]
you're beat on this river every time. check call and fold to a checkraise. betting and then folding is nuts. see a showdown for 1 bet or dont see it at all.


[/ QUOTE ]

What he said.

Re: options
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i cant see how check/calling can be a good play.

[/ QUOTE ]

MP won't bet AQ, AJ, Two pair, or 8T even 1 in 18 times?

[/ QUOTE ]what? i didnt say check/fold... i said bet it!
i dont think he raises these hands 1:18, no.

Re: options
 

All signs suggest we were ahead on the turn. The BB probably had a made hand, so he's no concern. With no information given about MP2, I'm value betting my setting every time, although I will not be surprised to be raised.

If BB raises, it's an easy call. If it's raised back by MP2, I'm much less happy, but call because again I don't have the information necessary to make the fold.

I think check-calling and bet-folding are all reasonable options though. I find it interesting that so many responses have claimed one or another option to be ridiculous.

Good luck.
Eric

Re: options
 

[ QUOTE ]
i voted bet/fold, cause thats what id do... if it was a live 30, id prob check/fold, but on the net i cant see putting in zero bets on the end here. i cant see how check/calling can be a good play.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed. I seen no advantages of checkcalling in the hand, yet i was so so so sure i was beat i checked it without a plan, stupid of me. MP3 turned 59. other guy 97 and i miss out on $120 because of stupidity. Betcalling seems dumb too, i'm surprised at the poll results.

Re: options
 

Yes I think it may be necessary to account for a raise to scare you off the pot

Re: options
 

[ QUOTE ]
Agreed. I seen no advantages of checkcalling in the hand, yet i was so so so sure i was beat i checked it without a plan, stupid of me. MP3 turned 59. other guy 97 and i miss out on $120 because of stupidity. Betcalling seems dumb too, i'm surprised at the poll results.

[/ QUOTE ]

So let me get this straight. Check-calling has no advantages. Betting is clearly correct, but calling a raise with top set against an unknown getting as much as 21:1 is dumb. Does that about sum up your position on this hand?

Re: options
 

youre mocking him?

Re: options
 

[ QUOTE ]
youre mocking him?

[/ QUOTE ]

Can't get anything past you, can I?

Yes, I'm mocking him. He's claimed that bet-calling is "dumb" and "insane" and that "check-call has absolutely no advantages over bet-fold". As usual with such statements, they are exaggerated to make the author feel more confident in his position.

We have no player information on MP2. There is no way to know whether 21:1, closing the closing the action, is enough to call the river. I suggest that against an unknown it is. Either way, calling a raise is certainly reasonable. To descibe a call for 1 bet closing the action in a huge pot with top set as "dumb" or "insane" is, well, you get the picture.

-Eric

Re: options
 

I also think its def bet/call (given no reads). There are 2 flush draws on the turn and its plenty reasonable to assume mp could have either of these as well as plenty of other goofy pair/str8 draw hands (T8, A8, A5, 98, etc). While the latter are less likely, given no reads they are definitely possible. BB is likely badly dominated by you and I'd really like to get one last bet from him. If mp raises and BB folds, I'd call while simultaneously wondering if there's anything I can beat. But at that point the pot is monstrous and I have absolutely no read on mp so I still call. As for the other options, c/f &lt; c/c &lt; b/f &lt; b/c

Re: options
 

[ QUOTE ]
you're beat on this river every time. check call and fold to a checkraise. betting and then folding is nuts. see a showdown for 1 bet or dont see it at all.

Barron

[/ QUOTE ]

T8 is a very possible hand for MP to have that missed.

Re: options
 

[ QUOTE ]
to descibe a call for 1 bet closing the action in a huge pot with top set as "dumb" or "insane" is, well, you get the picture.



[/ QUOTE ]okok.

BTW/ thx for mocking me too... youre the best.

Re: options
 

IF you just want to stop replying to my hands that would be great.

Re: options
 

[ QUOTE ]
IF you just want to stop replying to my hands that would be great.

[/ QUOTE ]

Imagine Teddy KGB as I say: In my forum, I will mock you, whenever... the fck... I want.

And if you continue to describe very close decisions as insane and dumb, I will continue to point out how unreasonable you are. Maybe you would describe calling 2-cold with Axs as "triply super insane!", and calling 3-cold with T6, as I've seen players do, as "SUPER-QUADRO-MEGA-STUPIDITY!!!!!!!". Maybe I'm just not familiar with the system of insults you are using, and to you, "insane" is what us normal, human-style English speakers refer to as "quite reasonabe, but slightly wrong". I'll try to adjust my thinking when I read your suggestions from now on.

Before you get all high and mighty complaining about being mocked, you might consider that this all began with your suggestion that half the respondants to the poll are dumb.

-Eric

Re: options
 

[ QUOTE ]
BTW/ thx for mocking me too... youre the best.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is my pledge to you, anonymous poster.
Wherever there is a need for mocking, I'll be there.
Wherever there is ignorance, or arrogance,
Cockiness, absurdity,
Stupidity or exaggeration... I'm on the job.

Never fear, supermock is here.

Good luck.
supermock


PS. Even smart people sometimes say dumb things. Don't take any of this too personally. I'm almost always at least half joking. I readily concede that sarcasm is far too big an arrow in my own linguistic quiver. It seems I just can't resist.

Re: options
 

The fact that no one raised the flop reduces the chances of a flush draw by alot. I bet and call 1 raise on the river. My opinion on bet folding is the same as your opinion on bet calling.

Re: options
 

[ QUOTE ]

IF you just want to stop replying to my hands that would be great.


[/ QUOTE ]