A8o in the BB HU
 

My opponent has a PFR of about 15% and a VP$IP of about 19 so he's obviously decent preflop. His postflop aggression factors are 1.5, 1 and 1 respectively. So not bad either.

It was a full ring table and it was folded to my opponent at the button and he raises. SB folds and I call A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].

Flop comes: 8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

I bet out, he raises, I 3-bet and he calls.

Turn: 7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

I bet, he raises, I call.

River: K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

I check, he bets, I?

Thanks,

Guido

Re: A8o in the BB HU
 

Is this hand really that boring?

Re: A8o in the BB HU
 

I dont' see how you could fold.

Re: A8o in the BB HU
 

What hands do I beat against a tight player on the river? Would he raise K8 or Q8 preflop? I can't come up with many hands that he would play this way that I beat. Even a flush draw got there on the river.

Thanks,

Guido

Re: A8o in the BB HU
 

I would 3-bet preflop and without a detailed read always call the river. People just randomly get out of line or overplay hands HU too often, in spite of their stats, to fold.

Re: A8o in the BB HU
 

When you know a player is pretty tight, why wouldn't you believe him when it's HU? Again, what hands do I beat? I forgot to tell but this is 30/60, not 5/10 [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]. Does that change your decision?

Thanks,

Guido

Re: A8o in the BB HU
 

[ QUOTE ]
When you know a player is pretty tight, why wouldn't you believe him when it's HU? Again, what hands do I beat? I forgot to tell but this is 30/60, not 5/10 [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]. Does that change your decision?

Thanks,

Guido

[/ QUOTE ]
Tight players are more aggro HU because they see other players be more aggro HU and get suspicious more often and try weird things to counter the increased aggression. And in my experience just seeing tight PF numbers is not enough to make this fold at 9 to 1. I could be wrong. And if you have any kind of solid read on this guy beyond his numbers that says he's straightforward then fold by all means. You are correct that there is nothing logical that you are ahead of. I am worried about illogical things.

It being 30/60 makes me more apt to want to call as A.) I assume his stats have a lot of full ring play mixed in so he isn't really that tight, B.) From what I hear that is generally a very aggro game.

Re: A8o in the BB HU
 

This could be Q8 or 45o. Making tough folds in the blinds HU on the river is not a recipe for success.

Re: A8o in the BB HU
 

Is bet, 3bet ur standard flopplay against this kind of opponent? When u look at his stats he doesn't seem really aggro. Don't u think c/ring the flop is better?

Re: A8o in the BB HU
 

[ QUOTE ]
I dont' see how you could fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: A8o in the BB HU
 

I agree with Danenania, while a fold definitely makes sense, the player remains relatively unknown and gettting 9:1 that the way he played his hand doesn't make sense, I call.

Re: A8o in the BB HU
 

I can make this fold if i have a little bit more info on the player, like W$@SD/ASB or by just watching how often(or not) he bluff raises turns or raises them without top pair(or with the flush draw, which happens insanely often). Without that i think the general 30/60'er gets out of line often enough and steals with a wide enough range that i end up calling down, although i'm unsure if its correct with the K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] river.

Re: A8o in the BB HU
 

Doesn't his line make perfect sense for alot of hands that beat you? Like, a big pair, some suited Ax [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. only thing that you beat, would be if he semibluffed you with T9, but since he wasn't awfully aggressive, its unlikely.
But 9-1 is compelling. I'd probably call this, but im not sure since you're beaten by alot of hands

Re: A8o in the BB HU
 

I think his play makes perfect sense having an 8 with a worse kicker, remember he openraised from the button so his range could be very wide. No way for him to know you flopped TPTK when you did not 3-bet preflop. The river is ugly (the worst possible card?) but getting 9-1 I think a call is fairly easy.

Re: A8o in the BB HU
 

A pretty tight player will never raise 45o PF, raise the flop and then raise the turn again with just a draw.

Thanks,

Guido

Re: A8o in the BB HU
 

I folded because a lot of tight players play 77-JJ this way or a flush draw. IMO I could only beat Q8 or K8. No other hand that I beat plays this way I think.

Thanks,

Guido

Re: A8o in the BB HU
 

[ QUOTE ]
I folded because a lot of tight players play 77-JJ this way or a flush draw. IMO I could only beat Q8 or K8. No other hand that I beat plays this way I think.

Thanks,

Guido

[/ QUOTE ]

J8, T8, 98 you think don't raise PF, or don't raise turn? i could certainly see a lot of TAGs raising these from the button, and if they thought you were agro raisin on the turn as well.

Re: A8o in the BB HU
 

[ QUOTE ]
I forgot to tell but this is 30/60, not 5/10 [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]. Does that change your decision?

[/ QUOTE ]

wouldn't a 30/60 player be more likely to make a play on you here than a 5/10 player?

Re: A8o in the BB HU
 

J8, T8, 98... preflop yes, flop yes, turn no.

Thanks,

Guido

Re: A8o in the BB HU
 

I've seen more crazy stuff at 5/10 than at 30/60 but maybe I haven't played enough at 30/60.

Thanks,

Guido

Re: A8o in the BB HU
 

Didn't read responses. Did you ever consider 3-betting PF?

Re: A8o in the BB HU
 

[ QUOTE ]
the way he played his hand doesn't make sense, I call

[/ QUOTE ]

How does the way he played his hand not make sense?

If he has an overpair or a set his play makes sense, he makes more by calling the 3 bet and then popping the inevitable turn bet then he does capping the flop and leading the turn when checked to.

He also has fairly low aggresio factor on the flop and turn.

Re: A8o in the BB HU
 

why can't he have 98 T8 J8 Q8 A8?

edit: ok third try is a charm