1/2 Full Tables Stink. Little Money to Be Made There.
 

1/2 Full is a much tougher game than .5/1. There is little money to be made there. It stinks. Thats on Party, everywhere else is worse. I have little idea why anyone plays anywhere else. I'm beginning to think online full ring is a waste of time above the .5/1 level. And even if your killing the .5/1 game, you can only make a few dollars an hour, so there is nowhere to go online for a decent profit. Anyone disagree?

Re: 1/2 Tables Stink. Little Money to Be Made There.
 

All I know is that you all better stay away from my 6max fishies.

Re: 1/2 Tables Stink. Little Money to Be Made There.
 

I think it's fine over a small sample. Shorthanded is more profitable no doubt.

Re: 1/2 Tables Stink. Little Money to Be Made There.
 

1/2 6 max stinks too. Not only is there no profit there, all I do is lose money there. I'm down almost 250BB there over my first 10k. I might be running bad though. It's hard for me to believe that I'm losing with all the donks that are there, but I am. I think the rake is worse on 6max too. And you rarely get real big pots.

Re: 1/2 Tables Stink. Little Money to Be Made There.
 

[ QUOTE ]
1/2 6 max stinks too. Not only is there no profit there, all I do is lose money there. I'm down almost 250BB there over my first 10k. I might be running bad though. It's hard for me to believe that I'm losing with all the donks that are there, but I am. I think the rake is bad there too.

[/ QUOTE ]

there is a ton of profit in the 6max games, the rake sucks .. but the opposition is horrible

maybe that superhigh VPIP that you stubbornly have kept is finally catching up with you.

Re: 1/2 Tables Stink. Little Money to Be Made There.
 

bounce bounce boucnce boucne obiundce boucneeoinb boucen

Re: 1/2 Tables Stink. Little Money to Be Made There.
 

What are you stats @ 1/2 6max? I remember seeing your stats at fulltable and your vpip was higher then my 6max vpip. I usually run about 25-27 vpip w/ a 14-16 PFR(20k hands) and havent had many bumps in the road

Re: 1/2 Tables Stink. Little Money to Be Made There.
 

Nice. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: 1/2 Tables Stink. Little Money to Be Made There.
 

good god I love that avatar

Re: 1/2 Tables Stink. Little Money to Be Made There.
 

[ QUOTE ]
there is a ton of profit in the 6max games, the rake sucks .. but the opposition is horrible
maybe that superhigh VPIP that you stubbornly have kept is finally catching up with you.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree there is a ton of bad players there. Maybe my .5/1 Full Magic just doesn't work there. I beat .5/1 6m OK for a few hands but I'm bored with .5/1 now. I started off 1/2 6m around 30/18 but I've been trying to tighten up very recently. I'm going about 25/17 or so now but still doing terrible. I'm the tightest or almost tightest player on almost every table I play. I'm the most aggressive on most of them.

But I'm still losing. One thing I just found out is that my blind play stunk badly and I haven't played enough since I realized that to see if that will turn things around. Part of the problem may be I've gotten a lot of suckouts and just might be running bad too. And I'm sure I could play a lot better there. There is a lot more bluffing which I'm not used to.

Re: 1/2 Tables Stink. Little Money to Be Made There.
 

[ QUOTE ]
What are you stats @ 1/2 6max?

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a little off the original topic which is how bad full ring is, but anyway...

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y23...neral-9-05.jpg


http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y23...sition9-05.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y23...etails9-05.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y23...-059khands.jpg

Re: 1/2 Full Tables Stink. Little Money to Be Made There.
 

I thought 1/2 was a rock garden, I thought it was not profitable. For my first 10k hands, I was break even to losing. What I realized was that I sucked at poker. I had huge leaks that were excused at .50/1 because the average pot I would win would more then make up for the dumb ass moves I had made in other hands. 1/2 is definately beatable. Find the right table, and you can make the same number of BB's as at a .50/1 table.

Re: 1/2 Full Tables Stink. Little Money to Be Made There.
 

tom

im sure things will turn around.

Re: 1/2 Full Tables Stink. Little Money to Be Made There.
 

[ QUOTE ]
tom, im sure things will turn around.

[/ QUOTE ] I keep playing 1/2 6m because I know I have plenty of room for improvement in that game and there is no doubt a lot of Donks there. I'm just getting a little frustrated with it because even if I'm not playing very well, I'm playing so much better than most of the other players that it seems weird that I'm losing. But anyway.....back to full ring discussion....

Re: 1/2 Full Tables Stink. Little Money to Be Made There.
 

http://img396.imageshack.us/img396/37/12graph0ad.jpg

I disagree with 1/2 6max being unprofitable.

Tom --

You and your super LAGTAG style is a very high variance style, which is what I attribute to your bad run. I still think that playing at 30+ VPIP is suboptimal, as even 6max players like Entity and stheif09 play in the 28s at highest (I think).

P.S.
[ QUOTE ]
bounce bounce boucnce boucne obiundce boucneeoinb boucen

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: 1/2 Full Tables Stink. Little Money to Be Made There.
 

At first 1/2 felt like a rock garden, but now I can't believe how bad the players are there. Maybe I'm just getting nice tables, but there's usually some pretty good money to be made.

One thing I've noticed about 6max is how easy it is to steal pots. A lot of times if the table's right (ie not full of LAGs) you can steal a pot on the flop just by betting from EP or MP, or a randomely placed donk bet. There was a pretty good 6max post (I think it's stickied in the HUSH forum) and somewhere in it's a link to a starting hand chart. That helped me a lot (and still does). Another thing that's so important at 6 vs full is reads. Kinda rambling, but I think 6max is a blast. Lotsa easy money there...

Re: 1/2 Full Tables Stink. Little Money to Be Made There.
 

[ QUOTE ]
I thought 1/2 was a rock garden, I thought it was not profitable. For my first 10k hands, I was break even to losing. What I realized was that I sucked at poker. I had huge leaks that were excused at .50/1 because the average pot I would win would more then make up for the dumb ass moves I had made in other hands. 1/2 is definately beatable. Find the right table, and you can make the same number of BB's as at a .50/1 table.

[/ QUOTE ]

1/2 is a Rock Garden. What makes it potentially profitable is most of the players are very passive. Perhaps I have the same problem that you did in that I got away with a lot at .5/1 that is not working there. I was running even to slightly negative after 8k at Party 1/2 Full. I started going over to Pacific 1/2 and padded my numbers there, but then I started playing 2/4 at Pacific. Pacific is shot now though, so I might as well play at Party again.

I'll give 1/2 Full another chance. Thanks for relating your tale -It is encouraging. As far as winrate though, I was beating .5/1 for 4BB/100 pretty easily. I kind of doubt that kind of rate is possible at 1/2 Full except with expert play. What do you think?

Re: 1/2 Full Tables Stink. Little Money to Be Made There.
 

[ QUOTE ]
I disagree with 1/2 6max being unprofitable.

[/ QUOTE ]
Hey AK,
Your're on a tear there - Looks great - keep it up. Keep it bouncing along, so to speak. How about giving us some stats so we can see what kind of things are working?

Re: 1/2 Tables Stink. Little Money to Be Made There.
 

This is nothing dude. If your winrate is 0 BB/100 and your SD is 20 BB/100, this type of swing will happen once every ~70k hands.

Brad

Re: 1/2 Full Tables Stink. Little Money to Be Made There.
 

[ QUOTE ]
1/2 Full is a much tougher game than .5/1. There is little money to be made there. It stinks.

[/ QUOTE ]
Wrong. I made over 1k at 1/2 9-max and full-ring in about 20,000 hands. And yes, 1/2 full is different. It doesn't mean it isn't beatable. You aren't going to beat it with a 30% vpip, though.

[ QUOTE ]
Thats on Party, everywhere else is worse. I have little idea why anyone plays anywhere else.

[/ QUOTE ]
Wrong. There are plenty of games much softer than the ones on Party to be had elsewhere. I won't ruin my bonus periods at these sites by posting where, though.

[ QUOTE ]
I'm beginning to think online full ring is a waste of time above the .5/1 level. And even if your killing the .5/1 game, you can only make a few dollars an hour, so there is nowhere to go online for a decent profit. Anyone disagree?

[/ QUOTE ]
Once again, wrong. Look Tom, perhaps it's time to consider that it's not the game that's bad. It might be you. Think about the following very carefully: you might be a losing player at levels above 0.5/1 on Party. [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]

Re: 1/2 Full Tables Stink. Little Money to Be Made There.
 

I remember a HUSH regular who plays high said something about playing tighter at 1/2 because the best hand wins and something about the high rake. I daresay the 30 VP$IP 10/20 players would have to tighten up at 1/2 due to the rake. I think you should mostly be tightening up around the blinds not only because of the rake, but if you're defending against an unknown they're more likely to have a hand than at a higher stake. Your VP$IP from the SB is too high, most have mid 30s I'd aim to get it under 40. You also defend your blinds too much.

Re: 1/2 Full Tables Stink. Little Money to Be Made There.
 

[ QUOTE ]

I'll give 1/2 Full another chance. Thanks for relating your tale -It is encouraging. As far as winrate though, I was beating .5/1 for 4BB/100 pretty easily. I kind of doubt that kind of rate is possible at 1/2 Full except with expert play. What do you think?

[/ QUOTE ]

I beat .50/1 for 5BB/100 over 30k hands.

Last month I was 1.75 bb/100 over 6500 hands at 1/2.

This month I am up 40 bb over 1200 hands at 1/2.

FWIW, I think I am playing terribly. I have been making stupid calls and raises when I shouldn't. I completely believe that my negative months at 1/2 were almost solely due to my lack of skill.

Re: 1/2 Full Tables Stink. Little Money to Be Made There.
 

I had a 200BB downswing at 1/2, at the end I was convinced the rake made the game unbeatable, I moved up, I wouldn't suggest that, but the truth about the 1/2 game was I wasn't that good

you do need to tighten up, it will help contain the swings some, follow MeBenHoe's starting hand chart for the next 5-10k hands and see how things go

but first take a break for a couple days, it will really help

Re: 1/2 Full Tables Stink. Little Money to Be Made There.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Your VP$IP from the SB is too high, most have mid 30s I'd aim to get it under 40. You also defend your blinds too much.

[/ QUOTE ]
Ya Sharpie, I just found that out from posting these stats on HUSH recently. I'll be working on that for sure. My blind play was way off. Thanks.

Re: 1/2 Full Tables Stink. Little Money to Be Made There.
 

http://img393.imageshack.us/img393/3200/12stats3vw.jpg

Those are my stats. I've highlighted some of the more important 6max ones.

I am running quite good with my 35% / 54% showdown, but my river bet fold is way lower than yours, which means I think you're letting yourself get floated too much. Also, my flop aggro is way higher, which probably means you're calling too much.

EDIT: And as stated, your blind play is way loose, especially at 1/2 where there are a lot less people out who realize blindstealing to be so profitable.

Re: 1/2 Full Tables Stink. Little Money to Be Made There.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Thats on Party, everywhere else is worse. I have little idea why anyone plays anywhere else.

[/ QUOTE ]
Wrong. There are plenty of games much softer than the ones on Party to be had elsewhere. I won't ruin my bonus periods at these sites by posting where, though.

[/ QUOTE ]
Oh man, I do believe I found one this week. Land o' calling stations, paying off to the river with bottom pair no kicker no draw, five- and six-handed flops abounding. They even play no-limit SNGs like they're .5/1 limit tables (all-ins regularly made and called by people with zero-overcard draws).

Mum's the word. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: 1/2 Tables Stink. Little Money to Be Made There.
 

No offense, but are you bitching over a 10k hand sample? Because if so, wow.

It's very simple, Tom. Allocate your "Poker time" to whatever makes the most money. And then work from there.

Re: 1/2 Tables Stink. Little Money to Be Made There.
 

[ QUOTE ]
No offense, but are you bitching over a 10k hand sample? Because if so, wow.

[/ QUOTE ]
Well Clayton,
That's just a sidetrack to this thread. Mainly this thread is about bitching over 1/2 Full Ring. But I do only have about 10k there also.

Re: 1/2 Full Tables Stink. Little Money to Be Made There.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Those are my stats. I've highlighted some of the more important 6max ones. ... my river bet fold is way lower than yours, which means I think you're letting yourself get floated too much. Also, my flop aggro is way higher, which probably means you're calling too much...And as stated, your blind play is way loose, especially at 1/2 where there are a lot less people out who realize blindstealing to be so profitable.

[/ QUOTE ]
Thanks for that aK. It certainly makes for a helpful guideline. I'll be watching out for folding too much on the river. Good point about blindstealing not being so rampant at 1/2. Maybe I was defending too much because I thought people were stealing as much as I do, but your right, thats very unlikely now that I think about it. I see your checkraising is about 50% higher than mine too. I'll look for some more opportunities for that.

When I cut my blind play back, I wonder how much my VPIP will drop just from that...

Re: 1/2 Tables Stink. Little Money to Be Made There.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Mainly this thread is about bitching over 1/2 Full Ring. But I do only have about 10k there also.

[/ QUOTE ]

10k is probably the lower bounds of acceptable hand amts. for "winrate", though with 1/2 I'd like to think you should be winning if you're taking the time to improve your game, plug leaks, and the whatnot.

Not all games are the same. Vegas games aren't like commerce games.

Just because the 1/2 tables might be playing a little tighter there automatically means it "stinks". Maybe your higher VPIP might have something to do with that?

I would worry less about stats at your point and worry more about making the right decisions every time. Adjust to the game and make money there, or find a new game.

Re: 1/2 Full Tables Stink. Little Money to Be Made There.
 

Hey look, I just almost made a Royal.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y23...aRFblanked.jpg

BTW, what is cut off from this screenshot is my VPIP which is 30 here. Ya it's high, but I'm the tightest, most aggro player on this table. I realize that is not the only thing required to win, but it does seem a little strange to me to see looser, less aggro people winning when I'm losing, not just some of the time, but almost all the time. Anyway, just a point of some possible interest.

PS, As I was getting this screenshot ready, I caught a few hands and got my stake up to $99. Almost a breakeven as I went through one reload here for $100 total. If I break $100, it will break a six session down streak. The guy in the lower left is actually Donktastic. It's amazing that he is up.

PPS: Finished this session at $109. Hurray. 238 hands and 194 minutes later and I turned a $9 profit. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Finished table at 27/18. Wow, tightened up at end and bankroll shot up. 1st plus table session in 1000 hands. But it's Saturday night too...this is prime time. Time for bed. Good night.

Re: 1/2 Full Tables Stink. Little Money to Be Made There.
 

Tom, hang in there bro. If you think party games are tight u should try playing the cryptos. I think the tables have been alot tighter at times, particularly at 1/2 and .5/1 due to the party, empire and multipoker reloads. Expect them to loosen up now.

Use this aggression/drive to improve your game.

Re: 1/2 Full Tables Stink. Little Money to Be Made There.
 

You better call the Whaaaaambulance, the number is whine-1-1. For serious, do you think you are a better player than the average 1/2 player? If the answer is yes!, then there is $ to be made. I have made money on full ring 1/2 and 2/4. My hourly for 2/4 is about 3x what it was for .5/1. Come on dude. seriously.

Re: 1/2 Full Tables Stink. Little Money to Be Made There.
 

In the future, if you are going to attempt to conceal your identity, make sure to spray paint over the game number.

Re: 1/2 Full Tables Stink. Little Money to Be Made There.
 

Agreed. 30+ VPIP at 1/2 6-max is not optimal. I had 33 and I'm sure I could make some more money at 25ish. But it was fun

Preflop tightness is a small part of being a winner at this game. Post flop is where you make the difference.

Re: 1/2 Full Tables Stink. Little Money to Be Made There.
 

[ QUOTE ]
1/2 Full is a much tougher game than .5/1. There is little money to be made there. It stinks. Thats on Party, everywhere else is worse. I have little idea why anyone plays anywhere else. I'm beginning to think online full ring is a waste of time above the .5/1 level. And even if your killing the .5/1 game, you can only make a few dollars an hour, so there is nowhere to go online for a decent profit. Anyone disagree?

[/ QUOTE ]

maybe you're joking, but i have no idea how someone who has 2k+ posts on 2+2 can write something like this and be serious [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Re: 1/2 Full Tables Stink. Little Money to Be Made There.
 

1/2 is very beatable on Party. Just have to find good games and play well. If you multi-table you can make a very nice profit.

Re: 1/2 Full Tables Stink. Little Money to Be Made There.
 

[ QUOTE ]
1/2 Full is a much tougher game than .5/1. There is little money to be made there.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, you are right. No money to be made here. You should move up. Nothing to see here. Move along, Move Along.

-D

P.S. My first 5K hands at 1/2 sucked. It took that long to start adjusting. It's seriously looking better now. I am calling "downswing+small sample" on your post. I tightened up to 19/10 and it helped a lot. Good .5/1 mojo is certianly useless here.

Re: 1/2 Full Tables Stink. Little Money to Be Made There.
 

[ QUOTE ]
1/2 is very beatable on Party. Just have to find good games and play well. If you multi-table you can make a very nice profit.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. Table selection and making folds to turn raises are the two things I tuned up most to start rocking the 1/2. There are tables that play tougher than my toughest live game and some that are as bad as the worst 0.5/1. Find the latter. Waitlists are essential to my strategy. Just bounce around.

It's a bit more like a job and I have a tougher time playing more than 2 tables. I'd say I come off auto pilot way more than twice as much as I would at .5/1

The 1/2 short handed play there is fantastic.

Re: 1/2 Full Tables Stink. Little Money to Be Made There.
 

I have to give 6max a try. How many more hands can you play per hour, and can you play as many tables at once? I am beating 1/2 full for 3.3/100 over 45K hands, and am able to 4table, so I'm wondering if you think it would be worth trying to go to 6max, can I beat it for the same rate playing the same # tables?