Go ahead and re-raise this flop?
 

Typical table. I'd been on a monster run of cards this past orbit, and had raised the previous 3 hands pre-flop, so I thought I'd just call this one (mistake?)

Also, is it correct to wait until the turn to raise, or are there already enough callers on the flop to re-raise?

All comments appreciated.

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP1 calls, Hero calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Button calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (6 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(6 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, SB folds, BB folds, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (7 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets</font>, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, Button folds, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls.

River: (14 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls.

Final Pot: 17 BB

Re: Go ahead and re-raise this flop?
 

I like it. You're giving up a little to potentially gain a lot. You have the nut flush already, so another diamond falling isn't going to hurt. If you had a lesser flush, I would definitely say push it on the flop.

Re: Go ahead and re-raise this flop?
 

You know, I did the same thing last night (calling with a raising hand because I had been open-raising a lot), and when I think about it now, I don't like it at all. If you're worried that people won't respect your raises, then there aren't many better hands to raise with than AKs. It's a big favorite and it plays well multiway, so really, you're hoping people will look you up here.

I was thinking about why I called instead of raising a pretty clear raising hand, and I've come to the conclusion that it's because subconsciously I want the other players at the table to think I am a good player. But really, my goal ought to be to take their money. So if they call my raise thinking "what a fish", so much the better for me (and you). I have to imagine it's more profitable if your opponents have an incorrect read on you than if they just have a general read that you're a solid player.

Re: Go ahead and re-raise this flop?
 

First Question: Why the hell are you not raising pre-flop?

Re: Go ahead and re-raise this flop?
 

If you raised the past 3 hands preflop, there's even more reason to raise this one, people are going to go out of their way to "keep you honest".

I would go ahead and reraise the flop, a turn check/raise is risky and there's a good chance he'll check behind on the turn on this board.

Re: Go ahead and re-raise this flop?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I was thinking about why I called instead of raising a pretty clear raising hand, and I've come to the conclusion that it's because subconsciously I want the other players at the table to think I am a good player. But really, my goal ought to be to take their money. So if they call my raise thinking "what a fish", so much the better for me (and you). I have to imagine it's more profitable if your opponents have an incorrect read on you than if they just have a general read that you're a solid player.


[/ QUOTE ]

Good points, some of my most profitable sessions are when I pick up 3-4 good hands in a row and my opponents think I'm a maniac. After they realize I'm showing down good hands everytime they stop playing back at me and I pick up a bunch of pots because they fear I have the nuts again.

Re: Go ahead and re-raise this flop?
 

[ QUOTE ]

Good points, some of my most profitable sessions are when I pick up 3-4 good hands in a row and my opponents think I'm a maniac. After they realize I'm showing down good hands everytime they stop playing back at me and I pick up a bunch of pots because they fear I have the nuts again.

[/ QUOTE ]

You and GME bring up some great points. I wasn't (that I know of) wanting them to think I am a good player (but I guess that's the definition of "subconscious" right? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]) but just to mix my game up a bit. How was I to know I'd flop the immortal nuts?

But all in all, you're right... no matter how good of a run you're on, if you are showing down good hands, most people will, for the short term anyway, tend to want to avoid me. That's not what I want.

Re: Go ahead and re-raise this flop?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Typical table. I'd been on a monster run of cards this past orbit, and had raised the previous 3 hands pre-flop, so I thought I'd just call this one (mistake?)

[/ QUOTE ]
The only time I'll think like that is if I've been raising a string of hands and now my hand is weaker than usual. My thinking is that now I'm likely to get more callers, so I want to make sure my hand can hold up in that type of situation. In your case, AKs would love plenty of callers, so you're missing out on a ton of value pre-flop.

Re: Go ahead and re-raise this flop?
 

Reraise the flop and for the love of god raise preflop.

Re: Go ahead and re-raise this flop?
 

If you were in some sort of position where you didn't have the whole field trapped for extra bets on that flop, you could make a case for trapping them on the big street. Here, reraise them. You have the whole field trapped, and you don't know if they'll call on the turn. As for preflop:

http://www.emsciences.com/images/BurningMoney.jpg

Re: Go ahead and re-raise this flop?
 

Preflop: I would raise. I don't think "slowplaying" AK preflop is generally a good play.

Flop: I would 3-bet. There are 13 SB in pot when it comes to you, and your 3 opponents will likely call one more bet. It may reduce the number of bets you can get on the turn, but it is now going to be a big pot that you should focus on winning by thinning potential FH draws.

Turn: Having called on the flop, I like the check-raise.

River: Good.

Re: Go ahead and re-raise this flop?
 

Yeah reraise the flop and celebrate the winfall by making yourself a mojito. Rinse and repeat.

Re: Go ahead and re-raise this flop?
 

I three bet the flop and checkraise the turn. Nothing screams A HIGH FLUSH DRAW like a flop 3 bet and then a turn check.

Re: Go ahead and re-raise this flop?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I like it. You're giving up a little to potentially gain a lot. You have the nut flush already, so another diamond falling isn't going to hurt. If you had a lesser flush, I would definitely say push it on the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Another diamond will hurt significantly! The board will be 4-flushed and the A, K, and Q will all be accounted for. Bets need to go in now before your action is killed. Make lower diamonds draw dead for a hefty price.

Re: Go ahead and re-raise this flop?
 

[ QUOTE ]

Flop: I would 3-bet. There are 13 SB in pot when it comes to you, and your 3 opponents will likely call one more bet. It may reduce the number of bets you can get on the turn, but it is now going to be a big pot that you should focus on winning by thinning potential FH draws.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, that was my sole reason for only calling on the flop - to go for the c/r on the turn and trap for 2 BB.

I realize the lack of a pre-flop raise is a mistake. Realize that I wouldn't typically (something like 90% of the time) make this play. Is just calling with AKs ~10% of the time too much?

Re: Go ahead and re-raise this flop?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah reraise the flop and celebrate the winfall by making yourself a mojito. Rinse and repeat.

[/ QUOTE ]

Solid advice on the celebratory beverage. A fair bit of work in assembling it, but it's well worth it.

Re: Go ahead and re-raise this flop?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I realize the lack of a pre-flop raise is a mistake. Realize that I wouldn't typically (something like 90% of the time) make this play. Is just calling with AKs ~10% of the time too much?

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess my problem with "slowplaying" AK is that you don't have a made hand yet. You have a drawing hand. Thus, there's really nothing to "slowplay" yet. Maybe I'm wrong about that, I don't know. My thinking is that it is a good idea, for deception, to slowplay a certain percentage of very strong made hands -- 10% sounds good to me.

Re: Go ahead and re-raise this flop?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I realize the lack of a pre-flop raise is a mistake. Realize that I wouldn't typically (something like 90% of the time) make this play. Is just calling with AKs ~10% of the time too much?

[/ QUOTE ]

That means 10% of the time, you're giving up a lot of money. I don't like it. Throwing in the factors such as your position, the hand context (raising like a maniac right now), the two people already in the pot, I think you're giving up a lot of money by not raising this preflop 100% of the time.

If you never limped AKs, you're not making any huge mistakes.

Re: Go ahead and re-raise this flop?
 

reraise the flop for sure. you've got the callers trapped, make them give you more money.

oh yah, not raising PF sucks

Re: Go ahead and re-raise this flop?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I like it. You're giving up a little to potentially gain a lot. You have the nut flush already, so another diamond falling isn't going to hurt. If you had a lesser flush, I would definitely say push it on the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Another diamond will hurt significantly! The board will be 4-flushed and the A, K, and Q will all be accounted for. Bets need to go in now before your action is killed. Make lower diamonds draw dead for a hefty price.

[/ QUOTE ]

A J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] would be sexy [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

Re: Go ahead and re-raise this flop?
 

I would raise pre-flop and 3-bet the flop. If you have raised the previous 3 hands pre-flop it's even better to raise since they will respect you less.

Re: Go ahead and re-raise this flop?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I realize the lack of a pre-flop raise is a mistake. Realize that I wouldn't typically (something like 90% of the time) make this play. Is just calling with AKs ~10% of the time too much?

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess my problem with "slowplaying" AK is that you don't have a made hand yet. You have a drawing hand. Thus, there's really nothing to "slowplay" yet. Maybe I'm wrong about that, I don't know. My thinking is that it is a good idea, for deception, to slowplay a certain percentage of very strong made hands -- 10% sounds good to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

There are no made or drawing hands, just hands with higher expectation then others.

Re: Go ahead and re-raise this flop?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I realize the lack of a pre-flop raise is a mistake. Realize that I wouldn't typically (something like 90% of the time) make this play. Is just calling with AKs ~10% of the time too much?

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess my problem with "slowplaying" AK is that you don't have a made hand yet. You have a drawing hand. Thus, there's really nothing to "slowplay" yet. Maybe I'm wrong about that, I don't know. My thinking is that it is a good idea, for deception, to slowplay a certain percentage of very strong made hands -- 10% sounds good to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

There are no made or drawing hands, just hands with higher expectation then others.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are right, I stand corrected. By the way, your comment got me thinking about this conceptual question some more, so I looked at SSHE, and there is a nice section at pages 238-240 called "Ace-King Is Not Just A Drawing Hand." Good reading.