Dead Sexy?
 

3/6 6 max game on Party that's 5 handed. I had 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] UTG+1/the CO.

UTG folds, I raise as was the style of the times.

Button calls (he's new to the table, seems decent, the cold call is strange though, so maybe no, dunno much at this point.).

SB calls, he's also decent ish, maybe a little loose and a little passive.

BB folds.

Flop is Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

SB bets out. I call (thought being that I want as much money in this pot as I can get, and I don't want the button to fold).

Button raises, SB calls, I 3-bet (nobody is likely to fold, in fact somebody might be slowing down with something like QJ here, because they're shook like that).

Turn 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Check, I bet, They call.

River 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Check, I bet, button folds, SB calls.

Obviously the question here is the flop. Do I just raise outright, is the call/3-bet a little goofy or the best move considering how much of the flop I have. Ignore preflop, because I'm not doing that every time with that hand in that spot, but it felt like time to raise with a hand like that.

Re: Dead Sexy?
 

Why do you want the button in the hand? Isn't he correct to call one bet with a lot of hands on that board?

Re: Dead Sexy?
 

If he's calling, my thought is that he's helping my happy little flush draw. The SB probably isn't betting with hand I'm beating, so I'm not trying to protect my mighty 7.

Re: Dead Sexy?
 

I think you could have done the sexy on the river.

Re: Dead Sexy?
 

I like it. You disguise your hand well, then you start acting like you have an overpair. The other players are going to be confused as hell when you turn over your 2P.

Re: Dead Sexy?
 

[ QUOTE ]
If he's calling, my thought is that he's helping my happy little flush draw. The SB probably isn't betting with hand I'm beating, so I'm not trying to protect my mighty 7.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well what you have on the flop really doesn't matter right? It's how often you'll have the winning hand. If the button folds wouldn't you want to take your fair share of free cards?

Re: Dead Sexy?
 

I think your call/3bet on the flop is perfect. You have huge equity and are building a big pot. Good hand. Turn/River standard.

Re: Dead Sexy?
 

This is a situation where you have bigtime equity in the pot. You are highly unlikely to win this hand with your 7, but you are very likely to win if you get one of your outs. You want lots of players so that if any of your outs (of which there are many) come in you make lots of money. Raising to knock players out is terrible. Extra players are not going to reduce your equity, they just split the remainder. I don't remember if this topic is in SSHE or in Gary Carson - maybe both.

Re: Dead Sexy?
 

I like it on every street. Love your flop call/3bet.

Re: Dead Sexy?
 

I was going to ask "what's your turn plan if you miss?" Because betting likely is -EV. But a big plus of an unorthodox play like this is it confuses the hell out of your opponents. If you miss and check, button might fear he's being set up again and might check himself (before he wrecks himself). and if he bets no biggie, either.

nice hand.

Re: Dead Sexy?
 

I hate not raising the flop here.

Re: Dead Sexy?
 

How many times do you expect your call/3bet line to work on average?

I'd just raise. There is no reason to be fancy.

Re: Dead Sexy?
 

[ QUOTE ]
How many times do you expect your call/3bet line to work on average?

I'd just raise. There is no reason to be fancy

[/ QUOTE ]

He wasn't expecting it to work at all. He got lucky & it did work. Raising the flop here might drive out players which would be awful. There is little chance you are going to buy the pot with a flop raise. The way it was played was just perfect. The way OP explained his play makes perfect sense & I doubt the hand could have been played better. Like he said, once he got the chance to 3-bet, he figured no one was going to fold anyways & he was disguising his hand extremely well & pumping the pot with a mediocre made hand and a big draw.

I think the hand was played perfectly for how the situation lended itself.

Re: Dead Sexy?
 

unless the sb is a jackass there is no reason to raise the flop.

Re: Dead Sexy?
 

[ QUOTE ]
ike he said, once he got the chance to 3-bet, he figured no one was going to fold anyways & he was disguising his hand extremely well & pumping the pot with a mediocre made hand and a big draw.

[/ QUOTE ]

this is a kinda interesting point. while it may be obvious he has a draw here no one puts him on a 9 or a 7.

Re: Dead Sexy?
 

Like I said in my original post. This is my thought with a flush draw in a spot where I very likely don't have the lead in the hand. I say "how can I get as much money in the pot as possible". The answer on the flop when it's my turn the first time is to call and not drive out the SB.

When the SB raises, and now I ask myself again "how can I get the most money in the bot" and I 3-bet because I know they're not folding.

Raising the flop would be horrible IMO, because I'm not doing the only thing I've got going for me (my flush draw) any favors. The SB is betting out with a Q the vast % of the time vs. him.

In answer of what happens when I miss. Kinda depends on the turn. Any paint and I'm likely check/call. Something else I might bet. Luckily I rule, so I don't have to worry about this much.

Re: Dead Sexy?
 

well played dids

Re: Dead Sexy?
 

this is well played, but is raising the flop really 'terrible'? I think this board is very conducive to getting called for 2 cold (very drawy, cold caller's hands often have hit this board for a made hand or a draw, and our flop raise is expected as PFR which should give it less credibility), and if they want to call 2 cold that's fine. if he folds and I hit, my hand is disguised, if I miss, free card.

again I like the way dids played it, but I mix up my flop play here between call/raise, I do the same mixing it up with a set.

Re: Dead Sexy?
 

Exactly how I play it.

Re: Dead Sexy?
 

I used to play it like this but I feel too many opponents are now aware that the call/raise line is so often a flush draw raising for value (though there is almost no extra value in that raise). I think you gain more bets on the later streets with the call/call line.

Of course the fact that you have bottom pair changes the situation somewhat from what I wrote above but not enough for me to call/raise.

Re: Dead Sexy?
 

"...there is almost no extra value in the raise".

This seems to go against the general opinions of this thread, but I recall a thread about a month ago that discussed 3-betting a flush draw on the flop and the conclusion was the 3-bet was not +EV. FWIW.

Re: Dead Sexy?
 

If it was a naked, low card flush draw, that'd be true. Given his trips and two pair outs, I think it is.

Re: Dead Sexy?
 

I agree it's not "horrible" and for the reasons you describe.

Re: Dead Sexy?
 

Point taken.