John Cole\'s Idea Of An Over-50 Forum Has Merit
 

As the Politics Forum descends into ever more juvenile behavior, perpetual posturing, and continual contests of one-upmanship, (courtesy in significant part to some our newer posters, I'm sorry to say), it seems it may be high-time to re-open John's idea of an Over-50 Forum (with a few honorary members, as previously suggested).

Let the kids throw water balloons at each other all day long, since that's obviously what they want to do. The more mature and rational could use a more mellow place to relax and talk.

Over 50 what ?
 

Yards?

Poker chips?

Inches in girth?

I.Q. ?

Re: John Cole\'s Idea Of An Over-50 Forum Has Merit
 

Who's gonna check id's?

Re: Over 50 what ?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I.Q. ?

[/ QUOTE ]

That may exclude some of the moderators. Unless self announced I.Q. counts. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: John Cole\'s Idea Of An Over-50 Forum Has Merit
 

[ QUOTE ]
As the Politics Forum descends into ever more juvenile behavior, perpetual posturing, and continual contests of one-upmanship, (courtesy in significant part to some our newer posters, I'm sorry to say), it seems it may be high-time to re-open John's idea of an Over-50 Forum (with a few honorary members, as previously suggested).

Let the kids throw water balloons at each other all day long, since that's obviously what they want to do. The more mature and rational could use a more mellow place to relax and talk.

[/ QUOTE ]

"Boo hoo, let's take our marbles and pogs and play elsewhere guys"

I guess the rest of us unmature and unwashed just can't recognize true maturity when it's whining right in our faces...

I can only hope you guys hire a den mother to keep trouble away from you Boy Scouts...

I assume the more rational would love a place to discuss things like "Race issues and the race card are dead...I didn't say racism is dead, just that it doesn't have a leg to stand on...see, I was misquoted, but when pressed on nonsense like 'race issues' are dead, I'll get in a tizzy and find the nearest maturity pedestal to stand on...but rest assured, I DIDN'T SAY WHAT I MORE OR LESS SAID - and ignore the fact I spent a few posts defending what you accused me of saying, I wasn't being sincere, just misguided by you chronic-misquoters"

Should surely be a fun and very rational place.

Re: Over 50 what ?
 

Then we could just submit our Mensa membership #'s and create a 2 Percentile Forum.

Re: John Cole\'s Idea Of An Over-50 Forum Has Merit
 

[ QUOTE ]
As the Politics Forum descends into ever more juvenile behavior, perpetual posturing, and continual contests of one-upmanship, (courtesy in significant part to some our newer posters, I'm sorry to say), it seems it may be high-time to re-open John's idea of an Over-50 Forum (with a few honorary members, as previously suggested).

Let the kids throw water balloons at each other all day long, since that's obviously what they want to do. The more mature and rational could use a more mellow place to relax and talk.

[/ QUOTE ]

........geezez, you just don't get it do you?

"with a few honorary members"??!!!

....and just who is going to pick them?

Re: John Cole\'s Idea Of An Over-50 Forum Has Merit
 

I don't think ID checking will be required. After all, whoever's not over 50 probably won't have much interest in AARP, Alzheimers, colonoscopies, the early bird special, or Blood, Sweat and Tears' greatest hits.

Re: John Cole\'s Idea Of An Over-50 Forum Has Merit
 

There are people here over 50?! Amazing!

Re: John Cole\'s Idea Of An Over-50 Forum Has Merit
 

Didn't Doyle Brunson write somewhere that poker playing skills deteriorate after age 50 or so because advancing years bring decrepitude, lack of concentration, etc.?

In that case, maybe they should get their own forum.

Re: John Cole\'s Idea Of An Over-50 Forum Has Merit
 

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[ QUOTE ]

"with a few honorary members"??!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

....and just who is going to pick them?

[/ QUOTE ]

John Cole, since it was his idea in the first place; Ray Zee, since he could well be the wisest poster on all of 2+2; and Andy Fox, since he is easily one of the fairest and most considerate persons on this board.

Re: John Cole\'s Idea Of An Over-50 Forum Has Merit
 

So, attempting to clarify things when one is misquoted and misunderstood is somehow irrational?

You know, you might actually be right: maybe it is irrational.

Live and learn, I guess.

Re: John Cole\'s Idea Of An Over-50 Forum Has Merit
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

"with a few honorary members"??!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

....and just who is going to pick them?

[/ QUOTE ]

John Cole, since it was his idea in the first place; Ray Zee, since he could well be the wisest poster on all of 2+2; and Andy Fox, since he is easily one of the fairest and most considerate persons on this board.

[/ QUOTE ]

John Cole I know & respect....Ray & Andy I know only from this forum, and also respect.

Respect, however, has absolutely nothing to do with it.

What is it with you and your continued insistence to control/moderate a political formum?

Re: John Cole\'s Idea Of An Over-50 Forum Has Merit
 

[ QUOTE ]

What is it with you and your continued insistence to control/moderate a political formum?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not interested in controlling or moderating an over-50 forum.

Actually, I was asked by Mat to moderate this forum. I have been trying to do the best I can, to try and help make it a more civil place for discussion, and with hopefully a higher signal-to-noise ratio.

Apparently, you and a handful of others take great exception to what I have been trying to do, for whatever various reasons.

C'est la vie, I guess.

I do think an "Over-50" forum would have a lot less posturing, backbiting, misquoting, one-upmanship, partisanship, name-calling and sundry other undesirable behaviors. I think there would probably be a lot to talk about--without having to wade through numerous juvenile pissing contests. In short, there would be a lot more wheat and a lot less chaff.

However it's not my idea; it's John's. So I just thought it deserved mention again.

As for the Three who would decide who gets an honorary membership--I was partially joking at least. Did it seem like I was totally serious? Well, you asked; I answered;-) Anyway, the over-50 forum might well be open to all--as Andy Fox has observed, it is doubtful if many of the topics would even appeal to the immature. It is even more doubtful that those interested in elevating piss-matches to an elite sport would be attracted to the forum.

Re: John Cole\'s Idea Of An Over-50 Forum Has Merit
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

What is it with you and your continued insistence to control/moderate a political formum?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not interested in controlling or moderating an over-50 forum.

Actually, I was asked by Mat to moderate this forum. I have been trying to do the best I can, to try and help make it a more civil place for discussion, and with hopefully a higher signal-to-noise ratio.

Apparently, you and a handful of others take great exception to what I have been trying to do, for whatever various reasons.

C'est la vie, I guess.

I do think an "Over-50" forum would have a lot less posturing, backbiting, misquoting, one-upmanship, partisanship, name-calling and sundry other undesirable behaviors. I think there would probably be a lot to talk about--without having to wade through numerous juvenile pissing contests. In short, there would be a lot more wheat and a lot less chaff.

However it's not my idea; it's John's. So I just thought it deserved mention again.

As for the Three who would decide who gets an honorary membership--I was partially joking at least. Did it seem like I was totally serious? Well, you asked; I answered;-) Anyway, the over-50 forum might well be open to all--as Andy Fox has observed, it is doubtful if many of the topics would even appeal to the immature. It is even more doubtful that those interested in elevating piss-matches to an elite sport would be attracted to the forum.

[/ QUOTE ]

....M.....Again, you are entitled to your opinions above, but they should not be construed as fact. I believe that your actions have been consistent and contradict your denial of your point of view that the politics forum should be moderated for the good of.........whom?

It's very simple. If there is going to be ANY kind of POLITCS forum on 2+2, it needs to be unmoderated by any poster.

If 2+2 owners choose to moderate it themselves, I certainly respect that, as it is their forum.

For the sake of clarity, I am drawing a distinction between the Politcs Forum, and any other Forum on 2+2;

This opinion does NOT apply to any other forum.

Re: John Cole\'s Idea Of An Over-50 Forum Has Merit
 

If you have a problem with the fact that the politics forum is moderated by someone who is also a poster, and you think that no poster should moderate the politics forum, why don't you take it up with Mat?

I'll also note that my impression is that you are making a mountain out of a molehill. I have not warned, disciplined or restricted ANYONE based on their political views--and I certainly don't intend to begin doing that.

By the way, this thread has been hijacked quite a bit already--can we stop this line of discussion and have you take up your grievance with Mat if you see fit? Or, at least start another thread please.

This thread is about John's idea of an Over-50 forum--isn't it?

Re: John Cole\'s Idea Of An Over-50 Forum Has Merit
 

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Re: John Cole's Idea Of An Over-50 Forum Has Merit

[/ QUOTE ]


It would be a worthwhile experiment. But I doubt 2+2 is interested in experimentation - though I could be wrong.

To help separate the wheat from the chaff, I suggest the ignore function - the physical ignore function provided by the operating software on this website, and the mental one, courtesy of Stoicism.

-Zeno

Re: John Cole\'s Idea Of An Over-50 Forum Has Merit
 

[ QUOTE ]
If you have a problem with the fact that the politics forum is moderated by someone who is also a poster, and you think that no poster should moderate the politics forum, why don't you take it up with Mat?

I'll also note that my impression is that you are making a mountain out of a molehill. I have not warned, disciplined or restricted ANYONE based on their political views--and I certainly don't intend to begin doing that.

By the way, this thread has been hijacked quite a bit already--can we stop this line of discussion and have you take up your grievance with Mat if you see fit? Or, at least start another thread please.

This thread is about John's idea of an Over-50 forum--isn't it?

[/ QUOTE ]

Is it?

Or is it about the fact that you think that it's fine for you to introduce your ideology into any thread that you like, and not for anyone else to do so.

Re: John Cole\'s Idea Of An Over-50 Forum Has Merit
 

MMMMMM has made it clear that his/her opinions are the 'law' in this forum.

Re: John Cole\'s Idea Of An Over-50 Forum Has Merit
 

While you're creating this over-50 forum can you create a forum for People Who Think Just Like Me? Thanks.

Come on, MMMMMMMMMMMM. This is a message board, not a womb. If you want to participate in a forum where people look up to you and your ideas aren't questioned go teach at a nursery school.

Re: John Cole\'s Idea Of An Over-50 Forum Has Merit
 

M,

Is it an "over 50 politics forum" or a just plain old "over 50 other topics" forum? The latter makes more sense to me.

Also, the forum membership has gotten so young you may want to make it an "over 40 forum" to broaden it a bit. I can still relate to 40 and I don't think there are too many approaching 60 yrs old around here. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

~ Rick

Re: John Cole\'s Idea Of An Over-50 Forum Has Merit
 

We'll put my silly criticism of this aside for a moment (see my last post in this thread); I'll try to give this a serious response:

Let me preface this buy saying I don't think 2+2 is interested in this (this = the idea I'm about to propose), and I doubt such an idea would ever come to fruition; and I question the wisdom of an "over 50" forum.

Having said all that, it seems like a very good idea to host 2 separate political forums; one forum can maintain the status quo, and remain a place for the partisan free-for-all, name-calling, "OWNED" picture posting type silliness that some of us have come to know (and appreciate).

And another forum can host a moderated, mellow place to relax and shoot the [censored] about politics in a way that won't ruffle too many feathers; I wouldn't recommend membership requirements, but trusted veterans (whoever --- MMMMMM, andyfox, John Cole, adios, etc.) can be given moderating privileges and can regulate the forum in whatever manner they see fit. I wasn't around then, but there seems to be alot of 'those were the days' type nostalgia from some here, and they might appreciate a place where they can relive the good 'ole days before others showed up and ruined their fun.

I’m quite sure it will never happen, but the idea doesn’t sound all that bad to me.

Re: John Cole\'s Idea Of An Over-50 Forum Has Merit
 

[ QUOTE ]
We'll put my silly criticism of this aside for a moment (see my last post in this thread); I'll try to give this a serious response:

Let me preface this buy saying I don't think 2+2 is interested in this (this = the idea I'm about to propose), and I doubt such an idea would ever come to fruition; and I question the wisdom of an "over 50" forum.

Having said all that, it seems like a very good idea to host 2 separate political forums; one forum can maintain the status quo, and remain a place for the partisan free-for-all, name-calling, "OWNED" picture posting type silliness that some of us have come to know (and appreciate).

And another forum can host a moderated, mellow place to relax and shoot the [censored] about politics in a way that won't ruffle too many feathers; I wouldn't recommend membership requirements, but trusted veterans (whoever --- MMMMMM, andyfox, John Cole, adios, etc.) can be given moderating privileges and can regulate the forum in whatever manner they see fit. I wasn't around then, but there seems to be alot of 'those were the days' type nostalgia from some here, and they might appreciate a place where they can relive the good 'ole days before others showed up and ruined their fun.

I’m quite sure it will never happen, but the idea doesn’t sound all that bad to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

.....the idea of 2 forums, moderated & unmoderated is fine with me.

If someone wants to create a moderated 'boys club' where they can comfortably share their opinions, why would anyone object?

I'm more than content with letting water seek its' own level in this regard.

Re: John Cole\'s Idea Of An Over-50 Forum Has Merit
 

Good points Rick, and yes on both.

Re: John Cole\'s Idea Of An Over-50 Forum Has Merit
 

[ QUOTE ]
While you're creating this over-50 forum can you create a forum for People Who Think Just Like Me? Thanks.

Come on, MMMMMMMMMMMM. This is a message board, not a womb. If you want to participate in a forum where people look up to you and your ideas aren't questioned go teach at a nursery school.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't want my ideas not to be questioned. I just don't see a need for the forum to be clogged with countless petty pissing contests.

Why would you even think that it has anything to do with agreeing with my ideas or not? It has everything to do with civility and respect and signal-to-noise ratio, and nothing whatsoever to do with whether people agree with me politically or not.

Why can't people here discuss, disagree and debate like mature adults, instead of like junior high-schoolers?

Re: John Cole\'s Idea Of An Over-50 Forum Has Merit
 

I'm certainly open to suggestions but the final say rests of course with the forum Administrators.

Re: John Cole\'s Idea Of An Over-50 Forum Has Merit
 

Interesting idea, DVault. Perhaps we should call one regular and the other decaf?

Re: John Cole\'s Idea Of An Over-50 Forum Has Merit
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
While you're creating this over-50 forum can you create a forum for People Who Think Just Like Me? Thanks.

Come on, MMMMMMMMMMMM. This is a message board, not a womb. If you want to participate in a forum where people look up to you and your ideas aren't questioned go teach at a nursery school.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't want my ideas not to be questioned. I just don't see a need for the forum to be clogged with countless petty pissing contests.

Why would you even think that it has anything to do with agreeing with my ideas or not? It has everything to do with civility and respect and signal-to-noise ratio, and nothing whatsoever to do with whether people agree with me politically or not.

Why can't people here discuss, disagree and debate like mature adults, instead of like junior high-schoolers?

[/ QUOTE ]

...I'll try to answer your questions.

- Because YOUR idea of civility, respect et al may not be shared, as distasteful as you might find that, by others.

- Because YOUR idea of a mature adult is YOUR opinion, which you are entitled to, but you are NOT entitled to impose your opinion upon anyone else.

- ANY arbitrary standard imposed in a debate surrounding issues such as these imposes a 'glass ceiling' upon those involved in the debate.

- You continue to focus on the trappings of debate; not the substance.

A debate is supposed to be an exchange of ideas, ideology or points-of-view with an intent to come to some kind of resolution. How can any meaningful resolution ever be arrived at if there is some sort of arbitrary limit set in such an exchange?

Setting ANY standards also has one other incredibly dangerous effect....

It prevents the debators from knowing the FULL extent of each others point of view, i.e., it forces some to be deceptive.

Let it rip.....Let it roar. Let people get emotional....Let them get passionate.

Let EVERYONE reveal the full extent of their point of view. Then, judge them by what they say....an uncensored 'what they say'.

Sensibilites will get offended, but SO WHAT!?

It is only under these conditions that any of us will truly be able to fairly evaluate anothers' point of view.

Re: John Cole\'s Idea Of An Over-50 Forum Has Merit
 

[ QUOTE ]
Why can't people here discuss, disagree and debate like mature adults, instead of like junior high-schoolers?

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe you've forgotten how fun juvenile behavior can be. There are a lot of nasty things going on in the world today and anything posted on a message board pales in comparison.

Engage in a little juvenile behavior and see if you like it. In response to this post, call me a douchebag and then type "PWND". I won't be offended. And, maybe you'll find out that you enjoy acting like a 12-year-old on ocassion.

Re: John Cole\'s Idea Of An Over-50 Forum Has Merit
 

[ QUOTE ]
There are a lot of nasty things going on in the world today and anything posted on a message board pales in comparison.

[/ QUOTE ]

This should be patently obvious;

anyone arguing for 'higher posting standards' seems to be overindulging themselves in delusions of their own self-importance; or perhaps everyone here is just forgetting the important, vital work MMMMMM and the rest of the veteran poster brigade had been doing towards solving the world’s problems, before all the riff-raff wandered in.

Re: John Cole\'s Idea Of An Over-50 Forum Has Merit
 

[ QUOTE ]

Why can't people here discuss, disagree and debate like mature adults, instead of like junior high-schoolers?



Maybe you've forgotten how fun juvenile behavior can be. There are a lot of nasty things going on in the world today and anything posted on a message board pales in comparison.

Engage in a little juvenile behavior and see if you like it. In response to this post, call me a douchebag and then type "PWND". I won't be offended. And, maybe you'll find out that you enjoy acting like a 12-year-old on ocassion.

[/ QUOTE ]

Newfant,

If I want to engage in juvenile behavior, I'll go play Diablo2, or maybe have a beer or two and cut up with a friend.

I WON'T subject others to it, who are trying to have a rational discussion (or perhaps trying play a gentlemanly game of poker in a casino).

Maybe that's the difference: whether one frequently subjects everyone involved in one's sphere to juvenile antics, or whether one does things like that privately, or at least, rarely in public.

It's sort of like listening to loud music: if you want to do it alone or with some friends, hey fine. But it isn't fair or fine to blast the car radio with your windows rolled down, or to play music so loud that it disturbs your neighbors in the next apartment. Likewise it isn't fair to serious posters that they should have to wade through numerous threads filled with nonsensical, juvenile pissing contests, in order to try to continue their genuine discussion or explorations. It takes time to wade through the noise when the noise is everywhere.

I'm really not saying don't have any fun. I'm just calling for some self-imposed restraint regarding the overall noise level. Some of the posters on this forum should think about how their activity might be getting in the way of others who are genuinely interested in discussing things or even perhaps learning. My comments are not directed at those who occasionally enjoy a little levity or playfulness--perhaps like yourself--but at those who make spamming partisan themes or engaging in pissing contests their primary purpose for frequenting this board. That's almost all noise, and while a little noise can be dealt with, it can also get to be too much at times (as it has lately). And that really isn't considerate or fair to many other posters.

Re: John Cole\'s Idea Of An Over-50 Forum Has Merit
 

I'm just asking for the noise level to be turned down as it really has been getting too high lately. Sorry if you think that's somehow an unreasonable request. And by the way, kudos for taking it upon yourself to evaluate the worth of what was going on here before so many recently joined. Don't worry, it had it's problems then too.

Hey the next apartment or home you move into why don't you just blast the music all you want. Surely the neighbors haven't been solving all the problems of the world in their boring peace and quiet anyway, so what could it possibly matter if they suddenly find the noise level too high.

You are actually not one of the serious offenders--not by a long shot, DVaut1. So I'm not even sure why you are making such a point to argue this matter.

All I'm saying is please everyone try to show others some more respect. Is that such a major request or is that really all that hard to do.

Re: John Cole\'s Idea Of An Over-50 Forum Has Merit
 

[ QUOTE ]
You are actually not one of the serious offenders--not by a long shot, DVaut1. So I'm not even sure why you are making such a point to argue this matter.

[/ QUOTE ]

I enjoy the noise. I enjoy the hijinks. I enjoy the pwned pictures and the flaming and the name-calling and all that. It's entertaining.

I have a nice collection of books I turn to for learning. This place is just entertainment.

P.S. - My neighbors have a very difficult time ignoring my loud music; posters can ignore noise here rather easily, and I think that's an understatement.

Re: John Cole\'s Idea Of An Over-50 Forum Has Merit
 

John Cole and I rarely agree with any political post MMMMMM makes.

Re: John Cole\'s Idea Of An Over-50 Forum Has Merit
 

[ QUOTE ]
John Cole and I rarely agree with any political post MMMMMM makes.

[/ QUOTE ]

I stand corrected. I'll try to stay out of you old farts' hair.

Re: John Cole\'s Idea Of An Over-50 Forum Has Merit
 

[ QUOTE ]
P.S. - My neighbors have a very difficult time ignoring my loud music; posters can ignore noise here rather easily, and I think that's an understatement.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well if you really annoy your neighbors with loud music on more than the rarest of occasions, then you are really not a nice person at all. And that's an understatement.

Hopefully, you are at least partially joking, or are not giving us the full picture.

Also, it is not all that easy to "just ignore the noise here" when you are trying to follow several threads and those threads are being clogged up with dozens of juvenile, spiteful, pointless posts.

Re: John Cole\'s Idea Of An Over-50 Forum Has Merit
 

[ QUOTE ]
P.S. - My neighbors have a very difficult time ignoring my loud music; posters can ignore noise here rather easily, and I think that's an understatement.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Hopefully, you are at least partially joking.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I'm 'joking' in that I don't really listen to music very loudly; and when I do, I almost always do with headphones on;

yet I stand by claim that ignoring 'noise' here is relatively easy; just ignore dopey posters/posts. It's much (MUCH) easier to ignore nonsense on 2+2 than it is to ignore a neighbor's loud music.

Re: John Cole\'s Idea Of An Over-50 Forum Has Merit
 

i'm 19. have fun with your forum.

BTW, if you were truly rational, then, you would've come up with a more intellectual criteria for admitting members. Perhaps a criteria that actually highly correlates with maturity and rationality.

Re: John Cole\'s Idea Of An Over-50 Forum Has Merit
 

[ QUOTE ]
yet I stand by claim that ignoring 'noise' here is relatively easy; just ignore dopey posters/posts.


[/ QUOTE ]

Easier said than done because if you do that much you stand to lose much of the continuity of the thread.

Re: John Cole\'s Idea Of An Over-50 Forum Has Merit
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
While you're creating this over-50 forum can you create a forum for People Who Think Just Like Me? Thanks.

Come on, MMMMMMMMMMMM. This is a message board, not a womb. If you want to participate in a forum where people look up to you and your ideas aren't questioned go teach at a nursery school.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't want my ideas not to be questioned. I just don't see a need for the forum to be clogged with countless petty pissing contests.

Why would you even think that it has anything to do with agreeing with my ideas or not? It has everything to do with civility and respect and signal-to-noise ratio, and nothing whatsoever to do with whether people agree with me politically or not.

Why can't people here discuss, disagree and debate like mature adults, instead of like junior high-schoolers?

[/ QUOTE ]

...I'll try to answer your questions.

- Because YOUR idea of civility, respect et al may not be shared, as distasteful as you might find that, by others.

- Because YOUR idea of a mature adult is YOUR opinion, which you are entitled to, but you are NOT entitled to impose your opinion upon anyone else.

- ANY arbitrary standard imposed in a debate surrounding issues such as these imposes a 'glass ceiling' upon those involved in the debate.

- You continue to focus on the trappings of debate; not the substance.

A debate is supposed to be an exchange of ideas, ideology or points-of-view with an intent to come to some kind of resolution. How can any meaningful resolution ever be arrived at if there is some sort of arbitrary limit set in such an exchange?

Setting ANY standards also has one other incredibly dangerous effect....

It prevents the debators from knowing the FULL extent of each others point of view, i.e., it forces some to be deceptive.

Let it rip.....Let it roar. Let people get emotional....Let them get passionate.

Let EVERYONE reveal the full extent of their point of view. Then, judge them by what they say....an uncensored 'what they say'.

Sensibilites will get offended, but SO WHAT!?



It is only under these conditions that any of us will truly be able to fairly evaluate anothers' point of view.

[/ QUOTE ]


i think you may have missed the part where he said he will NOT be the judge of who is mature and who is able to get in to the 50+ forum? that it will be up to john cole and a fox