Is GW Bush the Worst President Ever?
 

Perhaps we should restrict the question to "Is GW Bush the worst president of the 20th/21st centuries"...

Re: Is GW Bush the Worst President Ever?
 

He is not even the worst President in the 21st Century. No need to go any further back than that.

Re: Is GW Bush the Worst President Ever?
 

Yes. And it isn't even close. Do you see why? [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

Re: Is GW Bush the Worst President Ever?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Perhaps we should restrict the question to "Is GW Bush the worst president of the 20th/21st centuries"...

[/ QUOTE ]


restricting it to any president since McKinley is very smart, cause right off the top of my head, I can easily say Hayes and Grant as being miles worse then GDub(and that is saying something)

Re: Is GW Bush the Worst President Ever?
 

>>Yes. And it isn't even close. Do you see why? <<

I must be really drunk - I didn't even see that one coming.

nh.

Re: Is GW Bush the Worst President Ever?
 

Why do you think so lowly of Hayes. He didn't negotiate the terms of the Compromise of 1877 that clinched his election, and he did a fairly good job while in office.

Re: Is GW Bush the Worst President Ever?
 

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Why do you think so lowly of Hayes. He didn't negotiate the terms of the Compromise of 1877 that clinched his election, and he did a fairly good job while in office.

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you don't get the nickname rutherfraud for nothing. Its been a while since I studied reconstruction era american politics, but I don't think that I'd have a hard time finding plenty of bad stuff that he did, or more correctly let his administration do IIRC

Re: Is GW Bush the Worst President Ever?
 

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Why do you think so lowly of Hayes. He didn't negotiate the terms of the Compromise of 1877 that clinched his election, and he did a fairly good job while in office.

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Gabby Hayes was an actor, BGC.....Stop bringing up you're relatives, it won't get you anywhere in this forum.

Re: Is GW Bush the Worst President Ever?
 

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you don't get the nickname rutherfraud for nothing.

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That nickname had nothing to do with his actions as President, only with the closeness and controversy of the election of 1876.

They used to call LBJ "Landslide Lyndon" because we won a squeaker election for the Senate once (and not necessarily on the up and up.)

Re: Is GW Bush the Worst President Ever?
 

Only in the minds of people who don't know jack about other presidents...

Re: Is GW Bush the Worst President Ever?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Perhaps we should restrict the question to "Is GW Bush the worst president of the 20th/21st centuries"...

[/ QUOTE ]

Overall faithful attempt at a presidency, he must be better than at least Harding and a couple others. If we judge by how bad a president hurts our country, well...........time will tell. The way it looks now, as a result of Bush policy, terrorism will be a much greater threat to the USA and allies will be much harder to find by the time he's done. On the other hand, he disposed of a crazy, genocidal dictator and gave Iraq both a democracy and a war-torn country, with tens of thousands dead. Was it worth it guys?

PS. We also got a tax cut and plunged deeper into the economic abyss of dept. Nice!

Re: Is GW Bush the Worst President Ever?
 

[ QUOTE ]
PS. We also got a tax cut and plunged deeper into the economic abyss of dept. Nice!

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't forget the $2 trillion-dollar prescription drug plan. That's a huge recurring expense that we will get to pay every year from now until our deaths.

Re: Is GW Bush the Worst President Ever?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Perhaps we should restrict the question to "Is GW Bush the worst president of the 20th/21st centuries"...

[/ QUOTE ]

No

Re: Is GW Bush the Worst President Ever?
 

[ QUOTE ]
gave Iraq both a democracy and ...

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He did?

Re: Is GW Bush the Worst President Ever?
 

No to both questions.

Both Coolidge and Johnson were, in their own ways, horrific.

Re: Is GW Bush the Worst President Ever?
 

What was so bad about Silent Cal?

Re: Is GW Bush the Worst President Ever?
 

Well...I picked him out of the three rather ineffectual Presidents between Wilson and FDR...but really, take your pick on those guys.

Re: Is GW Bush the Worst President Ever?
 

Let's compare:

90s/Clinton: robust economy, low poverty, low unemployment, booming stock market, no major wars, military operations led to nearly no casualties, budget surplus, tax cuts for middle class, relatively effective congress that got some good work done, low crime, etc.

Yes, he committed adultery. No question there.

00s/Bush: worst terrorist attack in history of our country (after reading a memo that specifically warned of it), horrible economy, monster national debt, lowest approval ratings for a President in decades, seriously divided nation, ineffective tax cuts, cutthroat politics (smearing John McCain? Unconscionable), criminal Chief of Staff, ineffective war entered into under false pretenses, rising oil prices (before Katrina), etc. Also, Kanye West said it best "George Bush doesn't care about black people."

Frankly, I am truly amazed when seemingly rational people think that GWB is a good president. He may be a man of good character and a nice guy, Broken Glass Can, but he is, taking all the evidence objectively, unquestionably one of the worst presidents in the history of this nation.

Thread over.

Re: Is GW Bush the Worst President Ever?
 

Shouldn't presidents be judged by the quality of years after their presidency, not during? BTW Bush is a sh.it eater.

Re: Is GW Bush the Worst President Ever?
 

The appointments of John Ashcroft, Condi Rice, Michael Brown and Chertoff tells us Bush ain't a very good judge of competency.

Re: Is GW Bush the Worst President Ever?
 

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The appointments of John Ashcroft, Condi Rice, Michael Brown and Chertoff tells us Bush ain't a very good judge of competency.

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He doesn't care much about competency, he cares about loyalty and ideology. As a transparently insecure (I hope no one thinks those derogatory nicknames he gives out spring from charm), and mentally weak president, he wants hear no evil, see no evil, and speak no evil people surrounding him.

And he is lucky to have a core of supporters who are equally blind to any of his flaws, a number of whom are active posters here.

Is he the worst president of the 20/21st century, probably, but the fact that this question comes up and is seriously debated about his presidency (and he has 3 more years), is indicative that many realize he is quite bad.

Frank

You guys are being too harsh on Bush.
 

After all he only does what Dick and Karl tell him to do.

Re: Is GW Bush the Worst President Ever?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Let's compare:

90s/Clinton: robust economy, low poverty, low unemployment, booming stock market, no major wars, military operations led to nearly no casualties, budget surplus, tax cuts for middle class, relatively effective congress that got some good work done, low crime, etc.

Yes, he committed adultery. No question there.

00s/Bush: worst terrorist attack in history of our country (after reading a memo that specifically warned of it), horrible economy, monster national debt, lowest approval ratings for a President in decades, seriously divided nation, ineffective tax cuts, cutthroat politics (smearing John McCain? Unconscionable), criminal Chief of Staff, ineffective war entered into under false pretenses, rising oil prices (before Katrina), etc. Also, Kanye West said it best "George Bush doesn't care about black people."

Frankly, I am truly amazed when seemingly rational people think that GWB is a good president. He may be a man of good character and a nice guy, Broken Glass Can, but he is, taking all the evidence objectively, unquestionably one of the worst presidents in the history of this nation.

Thread over.

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....now, now, now....Let me use a famous Ronald Reagan line:

"There you go again"...only this time let me add.......

....."bringing objective observations into a political discussion and upsetting someones self indulgent ideological fantasy".

tsk....tsk....tsk

Re: Is GW Bush the Worst President Ever?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Perhaps we should restrict the question to "Is GW Bush the worst president of the 20th/21st centuries"...

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Bush is too mediocre to be the worst. It takes a special type of achiever to be the worst.

In the 20th Century, FDR and Wilson each killed a LOT more Americans than Bush has, and they caused a lot more economic damage.

All time, it's not even close. Lincoln is far and away the worst. Just look at the number of people he killed. If that's not enough, look at his economic policies - central banking, fiat currency, and high tarrifs. His wartime policies are repugnant - conscription, institutionalized pillaging. The civil war was a war of conquest, a war incompatible with the ideals of the Declaration of Independence. Lincoln ushered in the era of big government, and singlehandedly paved the way for US imperialism.

Re: Is GW Bush the Worst President Ever?
 

As it stands Gdubs is the second worst after Andrew Johnson, but its getting closer every day.

Re: Is GW Bush the Worst President Ever?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Bush is too mediocre to be the worst. It takes a special type of achiever to be the worst.

In the 20th Century, FDR and Wilson each killed a LOT more Americans than Bush has, and they caused a lot more economic damage.

All time, it's not even close. Lincoln is far and away the worst. Just look at the number of people he killed. If that's not enough, look at his economic policies - central banking, fiat currency, and high tarrifs. His wartime policies are repugnant - conscription, institutionalized pillaging. The civil war was a war of conquest, a war incompatible with the ideals of the Declaration of Independence. Lincoln ushered in the era of big government, and singlehandedly paved the way for US imperialism.

[/ QUOTE ]

This post was not clever, try again.

Re: Is GW Bush the Worst President Ever?
 

GWB is both the best and worst President of the 21st century. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: Is GW Bush the Worst President Ever?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Let's compare:

90s/Clinton: robust economy, low poverty, low unemployment, booming stock market, no major wars, military operations led to nearly no casualties, budget surplus, tax cuts for middle class, relatively effective congress that got some good work done, low crime, etc.

Yes, he committed adultery. No question there.

00s/Bush: worst terrorist attack in history of our country (after reading a memo that specifically warned of it), horrible economy, monster national debt, lowest approval ratings for a President in decades, seriously divided nation, ineffective tax cuts, cutthroat politics (smearing John McCain? Unconscionable), criminal Chief of Staff, ineffective war entered into under false pretenses, rising oil prices (before Katrina), etc. Also, Kanye West said it best "George Bush doesn't care about black people."

Frankly, I am truly amazed when seemingly rational people think that GWB is a good president. He may be a man of good character and a nice guy, Broken Glass Can, but he is, taking all the evidence objectively, unquestionably one of the worst presidents in the history of this nation.

Thread over.

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Clinton knew about the terrorist before Bush.
Clinton was the one who set up the internet bubble burst.
Clinton escalated the Bosnian war.

I dont know if Bush is the worst president, of even if he is a terrible one, I, personally truly do not think you can decide that until you are looking at it in hindsight. The fact is, he has had one of the "hardest" presidencies in a long time, Clinton had nothing major to deal with, other than how to take over and keep the success going from the previous couple of presidents, and yet he still managed to screw that up by screwing a fat chick in the oval office.




Im jsut being devil's advocate here, I liked Clinton, he was good people, but you can not possibly say he had anywhere near as a stressful presidency as Bush.

Re: Is GW Bush the Worst President Ever?
 

[ QUOTE ]
This post was not clever, try again.

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This post was not clever. You could have at least used any amount of fact to discredit what he said; instead, you just said it wasn't clever. Next time, back up whatever you are saying, try again.

Re: Is GW Bush the Worst President Ever?
 

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You could have at least used any amount of fact to discredit what he said

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Point taken.

Re: Is GW Bush the Worst President Ever?
 

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Clinton knew about the terrorist before Bush.

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So then, Bush also knew when he took office. The buck stops here, as they say. It happened on Bush's watch, and it's not like it happened say, a week into his presidency. It was 8 months in.

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Im jsut being devil's advocate here, I liked Clinton, he was good people, but you can not possibly say he had anywhere near as a stressful presidency as Bush.

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I would agree with this, but part of the reason this is true is because Bush has made some very questionable decisions and inactions that have led to these "stresses." Insufficinet security measures, improperly planned war, ill advised tax cuts, etc. To me, Katrina is probably the first major event that Bush has had to deal with that is not something that he could not have some control over.

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Clinton was the one who set up the internet bubble burst.

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Ummm . . . . Can you point to a particular Clinton economic policy that supports this statement? And then explain how this policy passed through the Republican Congress if it was so bad?

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Clinton escalated the Bosnian war.

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Unquestionably. So, whats your point? You didn't like how the operation led to almost no American casualties? Or how the operation took a matter of months and was effective in stopping the genocide? Again, what is your exact beef with this?

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he still managed to screw that up by screwing a fat chick in the oval office.

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Unquestionably. Can you explain more fully why this matters to you? What effect did it have on your life, besides being newsworthy? Did this action lead to poverty, war, or another social ill? Did it raise your taxes? There is no question it was wrong, and he did it, but I am always amused when right wingers point to this as a major problem of the Clinton presidency. If that's a major beef, you don't have much.

Look, I respect your views, but a good deal of your argument looks like you are repeating stuff you heard on Fox News. That's fine, but lets see a little more development of the rationale for your statements.

Re: Is GW Bush the Worst President Ever?
 

Yes, GW Bush is the worst.

His father left us with one very good thing. It was a doctrine of when and how the US should go to War. I don't remember it verbatim but it went something like this:

a) The direct interests of the US must be threatened

b) A plan to get in and win.

c) An exit strategy

In the first Gulf War, after he achieved his stated goal, liberation of Kuwait, he got us out, didn't go onto Bagdad and get us mired into something we weren't sure of the outcome.

His son ignores this doctrine. He got us in to Iraq for the WMD but there weren't any. Okay we're there so he changes the mission, get Sadaam.

He got Sadaam. Mission accomplished, get the hell out. Nope, he keeps us mired there and now when an event that truly affects our national interest, he's ill prepared to respond.

Re: Is GW Bush the Worst President Ever?
 

The whole fiasco, as far as terrorism/OBL national security, can not be blamed on Bush, and Bush alone. Clinton had 8 years to deal with it, bush had 8 months. I dont think Clinton has all the blame though either. The infrastucture set in place was stupid and begnign, and unfortuently with ALL american politics, it takes something major to haver major change. I dont blame either president really, for what some radical group decides to do.



The tax cuts have nothing to do with the economic down turn, it is all a series of unfortunate event that occured after Sept. 11, that have lead to our weakened economy. IF you put a democrat or a republican in office during/after Sept 11 (I dont care if he was a economical genius) there was no way to stop the bleeding/snowball effect of the attack. From what I understand, presidents have little to no affect on the economy, during any one-two presidencies.


I dont know much about hte bubble burst, but like Bush and Katrina/terrorism, Clinton put no safe gaurds in to stop the bottoming out. What Im saying is that no one can predict the future, and hindsight is 20/20.

Why do you conveniently forget the genocide that happened in Iraq? Are they not as important? We have lost around 4k lives, which is in my opinion, compared to WW2, vietnam, korea, is not that many lives. Im sorry, but it is a ground war, we are trying to make sure the genocides never happen again, we need to make sure that safegaurds are in place (ie a decent and good regime), hence more loss of American lives. I know you will say it is about oil, or other some begnign argument, but I choose to believe (and you can pretty much, not prove to me otherwise) that we are over there for altruistic reasons. If 10 years from now, we learn the truth and the liberal/dems are right, I will rescind my argument, and agree that Bush is horrible, but I have to believe for now, that he is trying to do the right/altruistic thing.

In all honesty, other than gas prices, The Bush presidency has not affected my life either (as Clinton hadnt, other than the fact I started liking politics because of him). I still continue to do everything I normally do, I havent lost a job, I still live my life like I always have.

I have to BBQ and clean my room now though, Ill respond to anything you have written tonight, because I think you are one fo the few, non-far lefties on the board, and hopefully you can change my thoughts.....becasue I really really want to be a Democrat, but I just cant bring myself to identify with the majority of you guys anymore. They are just too shrill, and to PC for me to understand.

Re: Is GW Bush the Worst President Ever?
 

[ QUOTE ]
The whole fiasco, as far as terrorism/OBL national security, can not be blamed on Bush, and Bush alone. Clinton had 8 years to deal with it, bush had 8 months. I dont think Clinton has all the blame though either. The infrastucture set in place was stupid and begnign, and unfortuently with ALL american politics, it takes something major to haver major change. I dont blame either president really, for what some radical group decides to do.



The tax cuts have nothing to do with the economic down turn, it is all a series of unfortunate event that occured after Sept. 11, that have lead to our weakened economy. IF you put a democrat or a republican in office during/after Sept 11 (I dont care if he was a economical genius) there was no way to stop the bleeding/snowball effect of the attack. From what I understand, presidents have little to no affect on the economy, during any one-two presidencies.


I dont know much about hte bubble burst, but like Bush and Katrina/terrorism, Clinton put no safe gaurds in to stop the bottoming out. What Im saying is that no one can predict the future, and hindsight is 20/20.

Why do you conveniently forget the genocide that happened in Iraq? Are they not as important? We have lost around 4k lives, which is in my opinion, compared to WW2, vietnam, korea, is not that many lives. Im sorry, but it is a ground war, we are trying to make sure the genocides never happen again, we need to make sure that safegaurds are in place (ie a decent and good regime), hence more loss of American lives. I know you will say it is about oil, or other some begnign argument, but I choose to believe (and you can pretty much, not prove to me otherwise) that we are over there for altruistic reasons. If 10 years from now, we learn the truth and the liberal/dems are right, I will rescind my argument, and agree that Bush is horrible, but I have to believe for now, that he is trying to do the right/altruistic thing.

In all honesty, other than gas prices, The Bush presidency has not affected my life either (as Clinton hadnt, other than the fact I started liking politics because of him). I still continue to do everything I normally do, I havent lost a job, I still live my life like I always have.

I have to BBQ and clean my room now though, Ill respond to anything you have written tonight, because I think you are one fo the few, non-far lefties on the board, and hopefully you can change my thoughts.....becasue I really really want to be a Democrat, but I just cant bring myself to identify with the majority of you guys anymore. They are just too shrill, and to PC for me to understand.

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....How would you explain the overwhelming oppositon of most of the rest of the world, comunicated through the UN, regarding our unilateral and unprovoked attack of Iraq?

Are they all wrong, and we're right?

This statement is not written to start a flame war.

I'd like to know your thoughts on the above........

Re: Is GW Bush the Worst President Ever?
 

Hes definately the best of the 21st century. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: Is GW Bush the Worst President Ever?
 

Way too early to tell. But from what I've seen this week, he seems to be currently trying as hard as he can to achieve that coveted status.

Re: Is GW Bush the Worst President Ever?
 

[ QUOTE ]

Why do you conveniently forget the genocide that happened in Iraq? Are they not as important? We have lost around 4k lives, which is in my opinion, compared to WW2, vietnam, korea, is not that many lives. Im sorry, but it is a ground war, we are trying to make sure the genocides never happen again, we need to make sure that safegaurds are in place (ie a decent and good regime), hence more loss of American lives. I know you will say it is about oil, or other some begnign argument, but I choose to believe (and you can pretty much, not prove to me otherwise) that we are over there for altruistic reasons. If 10 years from now, we learn the truth and the liberal/dems are right, I will rescind my argument, and agree that Bush is horrible, but I have to believe for now, that he is trying to do the right/altruistic thing.



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I think you represent a lot of Americans who feel more or less this way, a reasonable patriotism.

However, it very easy to point out that the horrible genecide and the maniacal tendencies of Saddam Hussein were much worse in the 80s and the early 90s. If our plan was the stop genecide, many regimes in Africa would be a better spot politically and more deservingly.

Between Dick Clark, Paul O'Neill, Downing Street Memo, among other sources, it appears that the WMD and links to 911 were pushed as the main reasons, but were likely not the Bush administration's real reasons.

How can the case for military action be made like this: "he may have weapons, he may have links to 911, hes a terrible guy he has killed thousands, it would be vey convinient to have another friendly place in the Middle East, it would send a message to our enemies, its a strategic oil location, and Iraq may be a threat to us now or someday somehow. Plus we will kill some terrorists, maybe even al queda!"

Essentially, "there are clearly a lot of good reasons to do this so lets do it!"

But for most of us (I hope) this is not how it works. You see, this military action has costs too: American troops dead, tens of thousands of Iraqis dead, loss of allies around the world and loss of the international moral high ground (which would actually be handy in our struggle against terror among other things), and added fuel to the fire of terrorism via a nice boost for anti-US terrorism recruitment worldwide.

None of these were hard to predict.

For some of us (again I hope) we need a real threat to us for us to send our ground troops in a situation of occupation of another country or we need to have been attacked ourselves. Also, international support is extremely desirable, not just a perk. Call it selfish, all is pacifist, but I think that is how many of us feel in light of the cost of war.

We were attacked on 911, but that not a blank check to be used to justify aggression that does not apply to it.

So Bush goes with the WMD with a heavy does of 911. Reagrdless of Bush's real reasons, shame on him for misleading our troops on the reason they are there fighting and dying.

Thank god im Canadian
 

that is all

Re: Is GW Bush the Worst President Ever?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Why do you conveniently forget the genocide that happened in Iraq? Are they not as important? We have lost around 4k lives, which is in my opinion, compared to WW2, vietnam, korea, is not that many lives. Im sorry, but it is a ground war, we are trying to make sure the genocides never happen again, we need to make sure that safegaurds are in place (ie a decent and good regime), hence more loss of American lives. I know you will say it is about oil, or other some begnign argument, but I choose to believe (and you can pretty much, not prove to me otherwise) that we are over there for altruistic reasons. If 10 years from now, we learn the truth and the liberal/dems are right, I will rescind my argument, and agree that Bush is horrible, but I have to believe for now, that he is trying to do the right/altruistic thing.


[/ QUOTE ]

This is naive. America would never get involved with a war this huge for altruistic reasons. There is genocide happening every day in Africa and we do nothing about that because those people have nothing of economic value that we want.

We are in Iraq to protect American oil interests. The 'fighting terrorists' reason is a farce just as is the 'stopping genocide' reason. If we ever pull out of there, I wouldn't be surprised if Iraq reverts back to a dictatorship. It's horrible that American soldiers are dieing to line the pockets of Cheney, Bush and American oil companies.

Re: Is GW Bush the Worst President Ever?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Why do you conveniently forget the genocide that happened in Iraq? Are they not as important? We have lost around 4k lives, which is in my opinion, compared to WW2, vietnam, korea, is not that many lives. Im sorry, but it is a ground war, we are trying to make sure the genocides never happen again, we need to make sure that safegaurds are in place (ie a decent and good regime), hence more loss of American lives. I know you will say it is about oil, or other some begnign argument, but I choose to believe (and you can pretty much, not prove to me otherwise) that we are over there for altruistic reasons. If 10 years from now, we learn the truth and the liberal/dems are right, I will rescind my argument, and agree that Bush is horrible, but I have to believe for now, that he is trying to do the right/altruistic thing.


[/ QUOTE ]

This is naive. America would never get involved with a war this huge for altruistic reasons. There is genocide happening every day in Africa and we do nothing about that because those people have nothing of economic value that we want.

We are in Iraq to protect American oil interests. The 'fighting terrorists' reason is a farce just as is the 'stopping genocide' reason. If we ever pull out of there, I wouldn't be surprised if Iraq reverts back to a dictatorship. It's horrible that American soldiers are dieing to line the pockets of Cheney, Bush and American oil companies.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed that the same crap goes on all over the world and america does nothing. However given the choice between stopping two equally evil acts, whats wrong with stopping the one that helps you out a bit too. Was it Kant who believed in the greatest good for the greatest number? The war in Iraq helps certian americans as well as freeing Iraq. Helping africa will only help the africans. While that alone should be reason enough for america to go into Mugabe's palace and kick him out, I can understand the logic behind choosing Iraq.