Corporate disobedience plan to counter the rake increase.
 

Take as much time as possible over every decision. 72o UTG? Run the clock down to 3 seconds before folding! Similarly for AA on the button and every other decision. This WILL aggravate the other players at the table. Explain to them in the chat why you are doing it. Encourage them to email party, or to play at another site. When you finish a session don't leave the table. That way the table will be 5 handed at most for 15 minutes (the rake increase only applies to specifically 6 handed).

There are enough twoplustwo readers at the tables for this to make a difference if you all do it. Someone should mention this on other poker boards too. Don't start this immediately, lets give ourself time to furnish the plan and set a start date for this mass disobedience. Party takes so much money and offers such poor service - take a stand!

Re: Corporate disobedience plan to counter the rake increase.
 

I'm in!

Re: Corporate disobedience plan to counter the rake increase.
 

damn should be interesting at least

Re: Corporate disobedience plan to counter the rake increase.
 

I think that a bunch of us doing this at random intervals will make no difference at all, except wasting our own time.

However, I think if enough of us chose to make a co-ordinated effort to 4-table (at least) 6-max at every limit and run the clock down on every decision, for 30 minutes or an hour perhaps all at the same time, this would demonstrate to Party just how much we can actually affect their rake. I'm not going to work out the math, but if there are 50 or so of us doing this all at the same time, the effect on the rake for party during this period of time will be absolutely devastating.

Re: Corporate disobedience plan to counter the rake increase.
 

I also think that if we do this, we should have a website explaining it that we can link them to, rather than explaining it every time in chat. A site without ads of course so Party can't accuse anyone of spamming.

Re: Corporate disobedience plan to counter the rake increase.
 

[ QUOTE ]
I also think that if we do this, we should have a website explaining it that we can link them to, rather than explaining it every time in chat. A site without ads of course so Party can't accuse anyone of spamming.

[/ QUOTE ]

Excellent idea.

Re: Corporate disobedience plan to counter the rake increase.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I also think that if we do this, we should have a website explaining it that we can link them to, rather than explaining it every time in chat. A site without ads of course so Party can't accuse anyone of spamming.

[/ QUOTE ]

Excellent idea.

[/ QUOTE ]

except you can slip a link to my site in there. thats a REALLY good idea [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Some maths
 

Average rake per hand at 5/10 6 max is $1.74 with the changes. 90 hands per hour. So Party rakes $156.6 per table per hour.

90 hands per hour means average hand takes 40 seconds. How many decisions does the average TAG make per hand? Well at least 1 (preflop). Often multiple decisions. E.g. if you raise preflop, get 3 bet from button, call. Then check fold flop that is 4 decisions for a mundane hand. Lets say on average 2.5 decisions per hand. Each decision the rebel takes 12 seconds longer than normal. That is 30 seconds per hand delay. Which means each hand take 70 seconds rather than 40. Which means 51 hands per hour rather than 90. Which means party make $88.74 per table per hour rather than $156.6 . This is $67.86 less per table per hour. So a 4 tabler go slowing is depriving them of $271.44 per hour! This figure will be even higher at 10/20!

Re: Corporate disobedience plan to counter the rake increase.
 

wonder will up my BB/hr more, the new rake, or this plan [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Corporate disobedience plan to counter the rake increase.
 

Note that 2 goslowers at 1 table has less effect on party's bottom line that 1 goslower a 2 tables. So when we do this we should try and avoid tables with goslowers on.

I have been thinking for anout spamuell's idea. If we do set a specific time, say 1 hour on a friday night, and encourage everyone from 2p2 to do it (e.g. get ring players to switch to 6 max for the hour) twoplustwo has the ability to have a goslower on every table. At the moment there are 80 5/10 6 max tables. That would take 20 4 tablers to completely cover (stopping an annoyed fish simply switching tables). That is $5428.8 taken from party in 1 hour. If we can cover the 3/6 and 10/20 tables we can treble that I'd guess. That is $15K in 1 hour!

Re: Corporate disobedience plan to counter the rake increase.
 

I like the idea, but will this open up retalliation by party. I.E. strict enforcement of gray areas in the T & C with multiple accounts with skins?

Re: Corporate disobedience plan to counter the rake increase.
 

I'm in.

Re: Corporate disobedience plan to counter the rake increase.
 

Does anyone else think this will be seriously detrimental to our bottom line? You are going to tell all the fish at once that we are here to make money and Party is giving us a little less than they used to.

Most of the fish, maybe all of the fish, are unaware of the rake increase. Pointing them to a website explaining these facts to them will be the beginning of thier education. They are going to realize how serious we are about making money.

They may be frightened away when they find out how many "pros" there are at their tables.

Am I overthinking/overreacting?

Re: Corporate disobedience plan to counter the rake increase.
 

Am I overthinking/overreacting?

no, but the majority of the players on here are.

Re: Corporate disobedience plan to counter the rake increase.
 

This is a stupid idea.

Re: Corporate disobedience plan to counter the rake increase.
 

bad idea. you wont succeed in lowering partys rake and all you will be doing is bringing attention to yourselves. if you are running multiple skins 8tabling or have several accounts you may find that party seeks revenge by closing them. they may also decide that you using playerview or gametime+ is against their t&c and confiscate your funds. i really dont know if party would do this or not, but i think its more likely that this would happen then if they actually lowered the rake.

Re: Corporate disobedience plan to counter the rake increase.
 

They are not goona [censored] with a mass of twoplustwoers. They providea large amount of mgr for party. As for the idea that this is going to educate the fish, I don't buy it. They know professional poker players exist. We wouldn't talk about how much the rake increase was hurting our profits, we can talk about how it effects all players, including people with gambling problems. We don't need to present it as "rich pros want to get richer", but as "we are getting ripped off". Most people don't like getting ripped off.

Re: Corporate disobedience plan to counter the rake increase.
 

[ QUOTE ]
They are not goona [censored] with a mass of twoplustwoers. They provide large amount of mgr for party. As for the idea that this is going to educate the fish, I don't buy it. They know professional poker players exist. We wouldn't talk about how much the rake increase was hurting our profits, we can talk about how it effects all players, including people with gambling problems. We don't need to present it as "rich pros want to get richer", but as "we are getting ripped off". Most people don't like getting ripped off.

[/ QUOTE ]

My take on it is that Party is a place we CHOOSE to do business. They dont owe us anything other than a fair game and security when doing cash transactions.

I could see if we all signed a petition and sent it to them, explaining that we like what they have to offer us and would like to be considered when they do things like this etc. As an affiliate, I/We could get this in the hand of the right people. People who would at least understand our concern.

If they assure us that a large % of this increased revenue is going towards bonus money for dormant players and advertisements in US magazines, would we really have any reason to be this upset? Of course this is probably not the case, but they should know we have alomst as much interest in the future of Party as they do.

Re: Corporate disobedience plan to counter the rake increase.
 

I agree, they owe us nothing. They have the right to charge us whatever rake they choose. If the management didn't choose the level or rake to maximise long term profits, they would be doing a terible job. "Fairness" is not their concern. However, we can unite and hurt them. They aren't gonna listen to a letter saying 'dear party, please rake less. ty, sublime'. They only listen to $$$$$$

Re: Corporate disobedience plan to counter the rake increase.
 

[ QUOTE ]
I agree, they owe us nothing. They have the right to charge us whatever rake they choose. If the management didn't choose the level or rake to maximise long term profits, they would be doing a terible job. "Fairness" is not their concern. However, we can unite and hurt them. They aren't gonna listen to a letter saying 'dear party, please rake less. ty, sublime'. They only listen to $$$$$$

[/ QUOTE ]

If your favorite sandwhich shop decided to up the price of their meat, would you organize a protest? No, of course not. You would either pay the extra money or take your business elsewhere. If you went in their shop and decided to take up a table and read a newspaper, they would throw your ass out. If you didn't comply, you would be arrested for trespassing.

Of course, none of this could happen at Party but what they CAN do is stop turning such blind eye towards rakeback deals at their skins. Make it difficult for players to use HUDS etc.....

I think a calm headed organization of high volume players getting in touch with people who actually understand what we are worth to the bottom line is a better approach to this 'problem'.

Re: Corporate disobedience plan to counter the rake increase.
 

Completely agree with fyodor that it's not a great idea to tell the fish all about 'serious income making' on the internet.


Even without telling the fish why you are doing it, the plan will hurt your OWN bottom-line more than it hurts Party's (since you will be wasting your own time doing this by NOT playing).


I'm not entirely opposed to the idea of just sitting-out at a table until it kicks you off as an alternative to getting up and leaving though.

Re: Corporate disobedience plan to counter the rake increase.
 

i believe that party poker does not need professional poker players in their games. we may accumulate high mgrs but we eat away at the fishes money that would have become party's, but instead those fish go broke and quit. as professional players, we need party. they dont need us. i dont think party would have any problem retaliating against rioting professionals by at least hassling them about HUDs and multiple accounts. in the end, the professionals will go back to party and pay the ridiculous rake anyway.

Re: Corporate disobedience plan to counter the rake increase.
 

If anyone really believes this idea - or any of the ideas mentioned around here so far - will make a difference, I'm hereby accepting wagers.

Only question is what the proper odds should be.

Re: Corporate disobedience plan to counter the rake increase.
 

I'll take the sit out thing before leaving the tables

Re: Corporate disobedience plan to counter the rake increase.
 

I also think this will hurt us more than benefit us. Please don't do it.

Re: Corporate disobedience plan to counter the rake increase.
 

I'll expatiate on this matter in the coming days but for now I will say that many of you are being so weak. 1 day of 2p2 go slowing can cost party $1 million. That is a lot even for party. That is $1 million immediately, but the long term effects will be larger as it will annoy the fish and some of them will leave, email party etc. Lets say we organise this 1 day go slow and it costs them $ 1,000,000. We can then use the (genuine) threat of further action as a bargaining tool.

Re: Corporate disobedience plan to counter the rake increase.
 

I'm mostly a nobody when it comes to this discussion but I'm not a nobody when some mf'in deadbeat decides to protest whatever by blocking commuter traffic on a bridge.

I think if you want to get a table together where everybody knows what's going on that's one thing. Acting all self-righteous and inconsiderate by screwing up tables where other ppl chose to be there to play is, well, self-righteous and inconsiderate. IOW, stomp your feet and throw your tantrum; but don't involuntarily recruit ppl that don't share your feelings...

Re: Corporate disobedience plan to counter the rake increase.
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'll expatiate on this matter in the coming days but for now I will say that many of you are being so weak. 1 day of 2p2 go slowing can cost party $1 million. That is a lot even for party. That is $1 million immediately, but the long term effects will be larger as it will annoy the fish and some of them will leave, email party etc. Lets say we organise this 1 day go slow and it costs them $ 1,000,000. We can then use the (genuine) threat of further action as a bargaining tool.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bargaining tool? Are you serious? Party knows damn well there is nothing we can do about this. Ultimately, what can we do if they don't rollback the increase? There's no protest this group can keep up long enough to impact their bottom line. And it's not like there's any other site out there with a lower rake and as many fish.

You may think we're weak, but I think it's delusional to believe we have any genuine bargaining ability here.

Re: Corporate disobedience plan to counter the rake increase.
 

you want to cost party poker 1 million dollars in 1 days time??? didnt party just claim 350million in revenues last year? that would mean they averaged a total of 1 million dollars a day. you plan on closing every single one of their tables for a 24 hour period? i think it would be an easier task to create the next "i love you" virus that destroys every poker players computer on the planet.

Re: Corporate disobedience plan to counter the rake increase.
 

You sure they took $350,000,000 in revenues? Sounds more like their level of profits than revenues to me.

I should clarify: 2p2 could cost the party network $1,000,000 in a day. i.e. party, eurobet, empire etc.

Re: Corporate disobedience plan to counter the rake increase.
 

So what happens when Party figures out what happened and bans a bunch of you? If you don't think Party would want to ban high volume multitablers, you're wrong. They don't need us as much as you think, and if you really want to talk about longterm growth, well, the health of the games would be better served removing the very best players than by lowering the rake.

-Michael

Re: Corporate disobedience plan to counter the rake increase.
 

This really seems like the same "Party only!" blinders that many people have.

You guys know that there are other sites, right? And these other sites offer comparable game selection, comparable bonuses, comparable rakeback, and/or any combination of the above?

I can't imagine anything as mind-numbing and idiotic as timing down to 1 on every decision. For fucks sake, just play at Stars. Play at UB. Play at Absolute. Play at one of a million other sites, if you're that pissed.

Of course, if you're willing to pay higher rake in order to have access to these games, or these games plus the ability to datamine, or these games plus the ability to use pokeredge, or whatever, then keep playing. But stop bitching.

Re: Corporate disobedience plan to counter the rake increase.
 

[ QUOTE ]
They don't need us as much as you think

[/ QUOTE ]
This is more true than most of you realize.

Re: Corporate disobedience plan to counter the rake increase.
 

[ QUOTE ]
This really seems like the same "Party only!" blinders that many people have.

You guys know that there are other sites, right? And these other sites offer comparable game selection, comparable bonuses, comparable rakeback, and/or any combination of the above?

I can't imagine anything as mind-numbing and idiotic as timing down to 1 on every decision. For fucks sake, just play at Stars. Play at UB. Play at Absolute. Play at one of a million other sites, if you're that pissed.

Of course, if you're willing to pay higher rake in order to have access to these games, or these games plus the ability to datamine, or these games plus the ability to use pokeredge, or whatever, then keep playing. But stop bitching.

[/ QUOTE ]

People weren't bitching in this thread. They were attempting to have an intelligent discourse to explore the possibility of reversing Party's recent change to their rake structure.

You were bitching.

Re: Corporate disobedience plan to counter the rake increase.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Take as much time as possible over every decision. 72o UTG? Run the clock down to 3 seconds before folding! Similarly for AA on the button and every other decision. This WILL aggravate the other players at the table. Explain to them in the chat why you are doing it. Encourage them to email party, or to play at another site. When you finish a session don't leave the table. That way the table will be 5 handed at most for 15 minutes (the rake increase only applies to specifically 6 handed).

There are enough twoplustwo readers at the tables for this to make a difference if you all do it. Someone should mention this on other poker boards too. Don't start this immediately, lets give ourself time to furnish the plan and set a start date for this mass disobedience. Party takes so much money and offers such poor service - take a stand!

[/ QUOTE ]

Slowing down the games is going to cost working pros in the game more than the rake increase did.

scrub

Re: Corporate disobedience plan to counter the rake increase.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Take as much time as possible over every decision. 72o UTG? Run the clock down to 3 seconds before folding! Similarly for AA on the button and every other decision. This WILL aggravate the other players at the table. Explain to them in the chat why you are doing it. Encourage them to email party, or to play at another site. When you finish a session don't leave the table. That way the table will be 5 handed at most for 15 minutes (the rake increase only applies to specifically 6 handed).

There are enough twoplustwo readers at the tables for this to make a difference if you all do it. Someone should mention this on other poker boards too. Don't start this immediately, lets give ourself time to furnish the plan and set a start date for this mass disobedience. Party takes so much money and offers such poor service - take a stand!

[/ QUOTE ]

Slowing down the games is going to cost working pros in the game more than the rake increase did.

scrub

[/ QUOTE ]

Long term v. Short term scrub.

Re: Corporate disobedience plan to counter the rake increase.
 

Hmmm. Sacrificing ev in order to protest something that has absolutely no chance of getting changed...sounds productive to me. After all, I'm sure Party Poker spent the time and money getting a virtual stranglehold on the online poker market so they could lower the rake and be very responsive to customer complaints.

Re: Corporate disobedience plan to counter the rake increase.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Take as much time as possible over every decision. 72o UTG? Run the clock down to 3 seconds before folding! Similarly for AA on the button and every other decision. This WILL aggravate the other players at the table. Explain to them in the chat why you are doing it. Encourage them to email party, or to play at another site. When you finish a session don't leave the table. That way the table will be 5 handed at most for 15 minutes (the rake increase only applies to specifically 6 handed).

There are enough twoplustwo readers at the tables for this to make a difference if you all do it. Someone should mention this on other poker boards too. Don't start this immediately, lets give ourself time to furnish the plan and set a start date for this mass disobedience. Party takes so much money and offers such poor service - take a stand!

[/ QUOTE ]

Slowing down the games is going to cost working pros in the game more than the rake increase did.

scrub

[/ QUOTE ]

Long term v. Short term scrub.

[/ QUOTE ]

Pragmatic v. retarded.

scrub

Re: Corporate disobedience plan to counter the rake increase.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Take as much time as possible over every decision. 72o UTG? Run the clock down to 3 seconds before folding! Similarly for AA on the button and every other decision. This WILL aggravate the other players at the table. Explain to them in the chat why you are doing it. Encourage them to email party, or to play at another site. When you finish a session don't leave the table. That way the table will be 5 handed at most for 15 minutes (the rake increase only applies to specifically 6 handed).

There are enough twoplustwo readers at the tables for this to make a difference if you all do it. Someone should mention this on other poker boards too. Don't start this immediately, lets give ourself time to furnish the plan and set a start date for this mass disobedience. Party takes so much money and offers such poor service - take a stand!

[/ QUOTE ]

Slowing down the games is going to cost working pros in the game more than the rake increase did.

scrub

[/ QUOTE ]

Long term v. Short term scrub.

[/ QUOTE ]

Pragmatic v. retarded.

scrub

[/ QUOTE ]

Taking it up the a** v. sticking it in the c***

Re: Corporate disobedience plan to counter the rake increase.
 

How did the rake change?