Is this considered a bad beat?
 

NL.05/1
I had KQspades
Flop was 10h,Jh,As
Preflop the pot=about $7
w/3 players
First P raised $4
Next P raised $16
I went all in making it $110
Player 2 calls w/ Ah,4h
The turn is a heart.

Did he make a bad call(talking about after the flop), considering that he saw me playing a pretty tight but aggresive game? What were his chances?
Thank you so much

Re: Is this considered a bad beat?
 

Yeah I would say it is definitely a bad beat. You had the nut straight on the flop and he called around a $100 bet on a draw. He got lucky.. I would say it is a bad beat, and thats poker.
You could have probably played more agressive before the flop, A4s isn't that strong of a hand pre-flop.

Re: Is this considered a bad beat?
 

I'm sorry I should have titled this "what were his chances" were they approx 1/3. Also, how small of a bet would i have had to make to give him proper odds to call? Thank you

Re: Is this considered a bad beat?
 

[ QUOTE ]
A4s isn't that strong of a hand pre-flop.


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And KQ suited is? Preflop the KQs is about a 43 to 57 dog.

This is more of a bad beat story than a bad beat.

He made a bad call yet he will still win the pot 40% of the time. From his perspective if you had any hand other than the nut str8 or a set he becomes anywhere from a slight to a major favorite. Against the entire range of hands he might put you on from his perspective he made the right call.

Remember he cannot see your hand before he has to make his decision.

Re: Is this considered a bad beat?
 

Thank you Jimbo, I was thinking that if i was in that position, i probably would have called as well. So YOu think he made the correct call with out a doubt?

Re: Is this considered a bad beat?
 

I've been drinking a bit tonight before hopping online, but I hardly think that someone with four to the flush on the flop hitting can be a bad beat...True, he should not have called to be +EV, but its not the first time people have gone against the odds and hit. I think of bad beats as being four outs or less. He had a good percentage to hit. For his odds to be right, he either needed 2 to 1 basically...plus his implied odds. With you hitting the straight, I'm sure he had decent implied odds but not the correct ones

Re: Is this considered a bad beat?
 

I know you're drunk, but there are no implied odds after you're all in.
thanks

Re: Is this considered a bad beat?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Thank you Jimbo, I was thinking that if i was in that position, i probably would have called as well. So YOu think he made the correct call with out a doubt?

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No his call was incorrect but I can see why he made it from his perspective. You played the hand well, he played it poorly but that doesn't mean squat in the short run.

Re: Is this considered a bad beat?
 

Not a bad beat. Not a great decision by the caller, but it's not a bad beat.
In my opinion, a better way to have played the hand would have been to call the flop. When the third heart came out on the turn, then you slow down. If he moves in on you, you fold. If the heart doesn't come out on the turn, he's not going to call your all in. But, on the flop he has 37% chance to make the flush as opposed to 19% after the turn card misses. If i were him, I wouldn't have called that large of a bet. I just don't like to put my stack at risk on a draw against a made hand. I prefer to put my money in when I have the best of it. But I would have waited until the turn to determine if I had the best of it.
When you put someone in like that, they can only call you with a very strong hand or a strong draw. That's what he did.
Be careful with KQ in NL hold em. They say it's a decent hand that plays well in multi-pots in limit, but in NL you can get into way too much trouble with it. I mean, you hit the dream flop, but a risk-taker outdrew you after the flop.

Re: Is this considered a bad beat?
 

A flush draw on average is 2-1 to hit. A long way from a bad beat.

If he had A4 off suit and hit runner runner full house, that would be a bad beat.

Re: Is this considered a bad beat?
 

Result

http://twodimes.net/h/?z=1196157
pokenum -h ah 4h - ks qs -- th jh as
Holdem Hi: 990 enumerated boards containing As Jh Th
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
Ah 4h 388 39.19 598 60.40 4 0.40 0.394
Ks Qs 598 60.40 388 39.19 4 0.40 0.606

He's not that big of an underdog. It sucks, but not a bad beat.

Re: Is this considered a bad beat?
 

He asked what size the bet would have been to give the correct odds. That was the part I was answering with the implied odds part. Even when I am drunk, I know you can't get additional odds if you are all in.

Re: Is this considered a bad beat?
 

To put some numbers behind this when it came time for him to call your all in bet there was 137 in the pot and he needed to call 110. This is pot odds of 1.25 to 1. Therefore he needs a win rate of 45% to make this call. If he saw your cards he would obviously fold. However he is left trying to figure out what you went all in with. Lets say he analyzed like this.

Bluff - 5 % chance 80% win rate

Two Pair - 5% chance 35% win rate(has to hit his flush)

Ace with high kicker - 60% chance 48% win rate(he can win if his flush hits or his kicker hits)

Straight - 30% chance 35% win rate

This comes out to a win rate of 45% a marginal call. If he thinks its more likely that you had a straight than this it was an obvious fold. In his perspective if he thought it was more likely that you had an ace and higher kicker his call was ok.

Cobra

Re: Is this considered a bad beat?
 

I don't understand the reasoning to waiting to get your money in. If you know you are 61:39 favorite and you know he will call, get the chump's money in the pot now. He isn't going to call a big bet with one card to go. Don't give him a free shot.

I can see an argument for slow-playing this hand a little. All-in for $110 is v aggressive given the size of the pot and you don't know for sure there is a flush draw out there. But you were favorite against any hand other than Kh Qh. No reason to just call here.

Re: Is this considered a bad beat?
 

You're right that you don't know that a flush draw is out there, but you're only going to be called by that exact hand. Maybe two pair, but, more likely the flush draw. Why wait? There's a big difference to being a 61:39 favorite and a 81:19 favorite. Sure, the only way you're going to be beat is if someone outdraws on you, and they're more likely to do it with two cards to come than three.
I'm not saying the idiot was right to call the bet. OP made the guy pay to beat him and he did. He's just less likely to do it with only one card to come.

Re: Is this considered a bad beat?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I know you're drunk, but there are no implied odds after you're all in.
thanks


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lmao - reminds me of this one guy in an online game. He's on the button with trash and calls another guys all in. When I can't help but ask about his call he tells me "I had position on him"...

Re: Is this considered a bad beat?
 

Definitely not a bad beat, just a risky call by your opponent(for the size of your raise) as he had top pair with nut flush draw, he was probably figuring you either had two pair or TPTK(for straight draw of course)