A2o hand in SB
 

regular Bay 101 20/40

5 limpers, 2 very bad, i complete in SB with A2o.

flop is A93r, checked to button(unknown 40 yr old white dude) who bets, I check raise, all fold, he calls.

turn pairs the nine, I bet and fold to a raise

Re: A2o hand in SB
 

Here are a few questions that occur to me:

1. Why are you check-raising the flop? You can't possibly hope to make an ace fold, and the board is about as draw-free as one can imagine. I think calling on a kind of slowplay here is better, as you are happy to let people call with pocket pairs, king-high, etc. The only time raising is good is if someone has a 9 AND no one has a better ace. Play it a little slower and let those terrible limpers make big mistakes.

When you fold the turn, did you notice that you have a ton of outs to chop against a better ace? He probably doesn't hold AK-AQ since he didn't raise preflop.

What is the point of betting the turn? Is there some draw you are trying to price out? You wouldn't want a pocket pair to fold if your check will cause him to call the river unimproved. He called the flop check-raise... how can you be ahead at this point? Do you think he has a 3? You say he is an unknown, but it should be immediately obvious by the way he handles himself whether he has a clue or not.

Good luck.
Eric

Re: A2o hand in SB
 

[ QUOTE ]
1. Why are you check-raising the flop? You can't possibly hope to make an ace fold, and the board is about as draw-free as one can imagine. I think calling on a kind of slowplay here is better, as you are happy to let people call with pocket pairs, king-high, etc. The only time raising is good is if someone has a 9 AND no one has a better ace. Play it a little slower and let those terrible limpers make big mistakes.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd raise because:
1) There are a lot of players at Bay 101 who auto-bet on the button (some with any pair, some with any two cards) when checked to (even with that many limpers), so Hero is likely ahead and..
2) I wouldn't want people to call profitably with middle/bottom pair.

To the OP: On the turn (and river), I think an argument could be made for check-calling, because it's sort of a WAWB situation. I would probably bet/fold though, not for any specific reason.

Re: A2o hand in SB
 

My thoughts:

I think a fold is in order. Best case scenario is raising with a hand range (A9-109 and A10-A3) wich would mean you have a little more than 6 outs giving you approx. 8.3:1 to call when its 8.5:1 to you. If you start discarding hands like A3, A4 or A5 he'd raise you with on the turn, your odds cut down pretty much to a size where it would be unprofitable to call. Pretty read-dependent decision as it seems where you have to decide how likely this opponent is raising you with a weak ace (more or less covered by a nine), to go for a check-check on showdown but tries to increase his chance of making you fold a better ace.

Re: A2o hand in SB
 

First -- why are you in the pot with A2 to start with----
Second-- when the flop misses you why are you betting this flop with A2 --------
Get this play out of your game and watch your wages go up

Re: A2o hand in SB
 

[ QUOTE ]
when the flop misses you why are you betting this flop with A2 --------


[/ QUOTE ]

I don't consider flopping top pair on a drawless board that then gets checked to the button as a miss. If you do, I'd say reading the Ed Miller "You Fold Too Much" post might help.

Re: A2o hand in SB
 

is this an autocomplete for everyone here?

Re: A2o hand in SB
 

No, I fold preflop.

Re: A2o hand in SB
 

It is for me.

Re: A2o hand in SB
 

Here is how I would play this:

Fold preflop. I hate dominated aces in the small blind with 37 limpers.

Check-raise flop. You don't want to let people call with middle pair and 5 outs for one bet.

Check-call turn. It's a way ahead/way behind situation and if I bet out I'm not comfortable folding to a raise from an unknown player here.

Bet river, fold to raise. You'll get "WTF?" calls from stuff like 44 which likely would've checked behind, and if you're raised you can profitably fold.

Re: A2o hand in SB
 

[ QUOTE ]
regular Bay 101 20/40

5 limpers, 2 very bad, i complete in SB with A2o.

flop is A93r, checked to button(unknown 40 yr old white dude) who bets, I check raise, all fold, he calls.

turn pairs the nine, I bet and fold to a raise

[/ QUOTE ]

preflop: fine. i dont fold aces even A2o getting over 5:1 and a strong possiblity of no bb riase (if bb was agro and table was aware i'd tighten my sb starting requirements, even w/ good pot odds)

flop: hate it. i really dont like a c'r here. its a saharah dry board w/ no straight or ANY kind of draw. c'ring gains you nothing and loses you lots when you are ahead and behind respectively. this is a very good spot for a check call on the flop, check call on the turn and re-evaluate the river.

w/ a2 i think i also would c'c the river.

once you c'r and its folded to the bettor then your turn fold is safe.

i just think the flop play negated your chance of seeing a cheap showdown, getting callers w/ desperate hands (very bad players still fold to c'rs but may call w/ KTo here or JTs w/ bd flush), and it opens you up to what happened.

anyways, not a huge deal since you were likely behind here. but i vastly prefer a c'c on the flop.

Barron

Re: A2o hand in SB
 

[ QUOTE ]
It is for me.

[/ QUOTE ]

me too. even the fairly tight blind completion and defense standards of HPFAP state "any ace" in 1/2 structure.

Barron

Re: A2o hand in SB
 

i think once you flop check raise i see no need at all to bet the turn, why do you think this is ok?

Re: A2o hand in SB
 

[ QUOTE ]
i think once you flop check raise i see no need at all to bet the turn, why do you think this is ok?

[/ QUOTE ]

i meant the fold.

turn bet is bad b/c nothing else out there, UNLESS, villian is capable of layig down a better ace.

once he raises, clear fold

-Barron
Barron

Re: A2o hand in SB
 

[ QUOTE ]
Here is how I would play this:

Fold preflop. I hate dominated aces in the small blind with 37 limpers.

Check-raise flop. You don't want to let people call with middle pair and 5 outs for one bet.

Check-call turn. It's a way ahead/way behind situation and if I bet out I'm not comfortable folding to a raise from an unknown player here.

Bet river, fold to raise. You'll get "WTF?" calls from stuff like 44 which likely would've checked behind, and if you're raised you can profitably fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

I play the same way up to the turn but really like your river line more than my c/c one.

Re: A2o hand in SB
 

[ QUOTE ]
flop: hate it. i really dont like a c'r here. its a saharah dry board w/ no straight or ANY kind of draw. c'ring gains you nothing and loses you lots when you are ahead and behind respectively. this is a very good spot for a check call on the flop, check call on the turn and re-evaluate the river.


[/ QUOTE ]

I play the flop the same as you here. But I often find the turn play difficult. Assuming, button got no other callers besides you on the flop...he/she checks behind on the turn a lot. But I accept it because they often fold a non-Ace hand if I lead the turn. And I hope I get a call on the river from opponent's curiosity or opponent's making a second best pair. Doesn't create a big pot but it often seems the only way to get any more money out of opponent when I am ahead. Thoughts?
And if opponent bets a brick turn I'm not check-raising because it still seems to be a WAWB situation.