Should I play this table?
 

Starting from my direct left, going clockwise:

(hands) vpip/pfr/post-flop ag

(310) 13/7/1.4
(47) 43/2/2.3
(126) 49/6/0.6
(104) 40/1/0.85
(44) 43/9/1
(468) 18/6/2.8
(400) 20/6/0.9
(906) 15/8/2.6
(22) 23/0/0.3

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Here's what I'm thinking of the table:

The two guys on my right with high pfr, and aggression are likely pros, and will be a problem. The guy between them shouldn't be much of a problem, because he doesn't raise too much and doesn't play too tough post-flop. The guy on my direct right only has 28 WSD, which is a nice touch, but could just be sample size (that's a tough stat to nail down).

The guys on my left make some pretty serious mistakes. The guy on my direct left doesn't get involved enough to warrant fear.

Table is 29.2/4.97/34.39.

--------

I'm basically curious if my positional disadvantage, being quite often isolated from the LPPs, is going to be enough of a disadvantage that i should switch tables.

--Dave.

Re: Should I play this table?
 

Too many sharks and not enough fishes for me. I'm probably bolting unless I am really trying to work on playing tougher players and sharpening skills. They are weaker tables out there, it's still a big ocean.

Re: Should I play this table?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Too many sharks and not enough fishes for me. I'm probably bolting unless I am really trying to work on playing tougher players and sharpening skills. They are weaker tables out there, it's still a big ocean.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've found that this is actually a pretty decent table for 2/4... most times there a bunch of rocks and 2-3 bad players, 4 if you're really lucky. I'd certainly play this table in a better seat.

However... I'm curious if this has been consistent with what others have experienced at 2/4.

Edit: I'm sorry I didn't mentioned this in the OP, as it makes a big difference!

Re: Should I play this table?
 

You're on the wrong side of the loose passive bunch, I'd leave the table but go back in and get on the wait list and hope for one of the two seats just after that bunch of four to open up.

I wasn't paying near enough attention to position when I changed to 1/2 recently and it was costing me - remembering bisonbison's great post on position I decided to be much more selective in getting seats after the LPs and before the TAGs and it has made a major difference.

Re: Should I play this table?
 

Um ... wow. I rarely seem to find a table with four -- count 'em -- four 40+ VPIPs. I see two and that's plenty of reason for me to stay.

6 and 8 are high PFRs? Holy ... I must be a maniac (I'm a skosh over 10 at $2/4).

I'd prefer to have the fish a more to my right, but you can't have everything -- at least you've got position on the players you're worried about most. Might be a problem getting into some pots with the fish, though, as the dudes on your right will be raising a bit, but judging by the PFR, they are going to have legit hands when they do.

Re: Should I play this table?
 

When I see a situation like this, I usually decline the open seat and re-join the waitlist when the seat fills. I really want something to the right of the tags.

Re: Should I play this table?
 

[ QUOTE ]
When I see a situation like this, I usually decline the open seat and re-join the waitlist when the seat fills. I really want something to the right of the tags.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm only looking to be to the right of a TAG if the T is big enough that I think I can muscle them out of hands when I want to isolate the LAGs/LPs. Otherwise, I like having them acting before I do, and play accordingly. Unless, of course, they're uber-agg preflop, in which case I'll probably bail out of the table.

As to the position of the loosies, I don't worry as much about that. You can exploit these players regardless of your relative position...if you're acting first, you stick to premium hands and pound them, if you're acting after, you isolate and out-play them postflop.

Re: Should I play this table?
 

4 guys over 40 VPIP. This table is very profitable regardless of relative position.

Re: Should I play this table?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'm only looking to be to the right of a TAG if the T is big enough that I think I can muscle them out of hands when I want to isolate the LAGs/LPs.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep, that's exactly why I want TAGs on my left. That and so I can have at least a moderate chance of success on a blind steal.

What sort of stats are you looking to see to consider it significant enough to be worth doing? I've been using 20 VPIP as my cutoff point. I.e., if their VPIP is < 20, I consider them tight enough that this is a reasonable thing to do.

Re: Should I play this table?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Starting from my direct left, going clockwise:

(hands) vpip/pfr/post-flop ag

(310) 13/7/1.4
(47) 43/2/2.3
(126) 49/6/0.6
(104) 40/1/0.85
(44) 43/9/1
(468) 18/6/2.8
(400) 20/6/0.9
(906) 15/8/2.6
(22) 23/0/0.3

------------------

Here's what I'm thinking of the table:

The two guys on my right with high pfr, and aggression are likely pros, and will be a problem. The guy between them shouldn't be much of a problem, because he doesn't raise too much and doesn't play too tough post-flop. The guy on my direct right only has 28 WSD, which is a nice touch, but could just be sample size (that's a tough stat to nail down).

[/ QUOTE ]

"High" PFR of 6 and 8? But even more strange... "likely pros"? Table selection is overrated at the micros.

Re: Should I play this table?
 

I totally disagree with people who say leave the table and get on the waiting list for a better seat. Relative position is very important when there is one or two donks at the table, but in this case there is too much dead money going into the pots each hand. With 3 or 4 players coming into flops there isn't much chance for isolation plays anyways.

I would just take any seat at this table, leaving the table and getting on the waiting list and hoping for a better seat is just missing time you could be spending on the table. +ev to just sit down imo.

Re: Should I play this table?
 

Looks pretty playable. You have 3 bad players to your left. Should be able to value bet them a good bit. You have several tight players on your right. You can probably bet them out of some hands, but be careful, because they're probably smart enough to check/raise you if you get out of hand.

Re: Should I play this table?
 

[ QUOTE ]
(47) 43/2/2.3
(126) 49/6/0.6
(104) 40/1/0.85

[/ QUOTE ]

Almost certainly. Just make sure you get a good seat.

Re: Should I play this table?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I totally disagree with people who say leave the table and get on the waiting list for a better seat. Relative position is very important when there is one or two donks at the table, but in this case there is too much dead money going into the pots each hand. With 3 or 4 players coming into flops there isn't much chance for isolation plays anyways.


[/ QUOTE ]

Crap! Excellent point!

I hadn't considered this, but to reword what you just said:

If 3 donks limp, and I raise, TAAs will be calling with their SC's and PP's, particularly if they see me make a single blatant isolation play during the session.

--Dave.

Re: Should I play this table?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
(47) 43/2/2.3
(126) 49/6/0.6
(104) 40/1/0.85

[/ QUOTE ]

Almost certainly. Just make sure you get a good seat.

[/ QUOTE ]

Dude, that was the most useless reply ever. I mean, you should have at least added, "Do you see why?" or something, to make it complete.

Since your advice and knowledge have been so awesome in the past, though, I can only believe that my posts are getting a little too long these days. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

(One of the questions in the OP was whether or not I could play the table in my current pos, but it's a long post for a somewhat hidden question, so I understand if you missed it.)

Re: Should I play this table?
 

I think you're overthinking the position issue. At a table with four loose fish, ANY seat is a good seat.