Commerce gonna be nuts this weekend??
 

I live in Newport Beach, I've been playing online for about 4 months now. I think i'm going to head up to the Commerce casino this weekend and try live games for the first time.

For you regulars, is this a good idea? ie are the games going to be rediculously soft, or is it probably just going to be WAY crowded. I've been beating $1/2 limit for a good clip, starting to dabble in $1/2 6max and $2/4 full with good results. Any suggestions on what limit to play at Commerce?

Thanks for the tips.

Re: Commerce gonna be nuts this weekend??
 

Commerce is always crazy busy, and it's always a good time to go. If you can beat 1/2 online, you can beat the 4/8 at Commerce. It plays like a bingo parlor. Because of the rake and quality of players, I don't think it's worth your time to play below 3/6. Stick to the 4/8 and you'll be a happy boy.

Re: Commerce gonna be nuts this weekend??
 

Cool, that's kinda what I figured. What's typical buy-in? 20, 30BB?

Re: Commerce gonna be nuts this weekend??
 

Most people at that game are idiots and buy in for less than a hundred. Just buy two racks and you'll be fine.

Re: Commerce gonna be nuts this weekend??
 

Yeah, 25BBs is fine. At 4/8, just buy in for 2 racks ($200). If you play the 3/6, $150 is usually plenty. The players are so bad you'd have to hit a horrendous run of cards to blow a stack of 25BBs.

If you don't play live very often, make sure to act in turn and announce your raises/bets so they're not considered string bets. Also, cover your cards with a chip so the dealer doesn't accidentally muck them. Thirdly, always turn your cards face up at showdown, no matter what. You can't win a pot without doing that, and sometimes an opponent will misread/miscall his hand. Sometimes the dealer will too.

Other than that, have fun.

Re: Commerce gonna be nuts this weekend??
 

Sweet, thanks for the info guys.

Re: Commerce gonna be nuts this weekend??
 

[ QUOTE ]
The players are so bad you'd have to hit a horrendous run of cards to blow a stack of 25BBs.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is easy to do. I do it all the time. I must really suck. You don't repeatedly get premium hands snapped off? It can't just be that I'm unlucky. Bad beats are normal at Commerce in the 4/8. 2 racks!?! Occationally, that will go in 1/2 hour if you're at the typial LAG table.

Re: Commerce gonna be nuts this weekend??
 

If you can beat 1/2 online, you can beat 20/40 at the Commerce for that matter...

Re: Commerce gonna be nuts this weekend??
 

All low-limit games are regularly soft and beatable. The 4/8 is infamous for its aggressive play, so there is likelihood of large swings. If you don't get caught up in the frequent preflop caps with KQo, then you'll do fine with a regular tight game. The 3/6 is fun also. The 2/4 is painfully boring.

It is packed every weekend at Commerce, but I think the State Poker Championships are back so it will be extra crowded. The longest wait, however, is still the parking lot. Come on down and have a good time.

Re: Commerce gonna be nuts this weekend??
 

[ QUOTE ]
If you can beat 1/2 online, you can beat 20/40 at the Commerce for that matter...

[/ QUOTE ]


I've never played there, so I'll take your word for it, but I was going to suggest to the original poster that if he fairs well at the $1-$2 online, he should feel perfectly comfortable up to at least the $5-$10 (although you guys out there would have this as a $6-$12 game, yes?).

Even if the skill level is the same from $1-$2 to $20-$40, just by dealing with 20x the stake I think he'd be best closer to the $4-$8 / $6-$12 at least to get used to live play, as you're bound to run into a lot of new players and NOT annoy a lot of regulars / people used to playing live which is what you'll find more of at the $20-$40 level.

Just a thought...

Barron Vangor Toth
BarronVangorToth.com

Re: Commerce gonna be nuts this weekend??
 

I like this advice. If you're beating 1/2, then you can most likely beat whatever live game your bankroll can handle. Sit down at 4/8 for an hour or so to get over the shakes (I guarantee your fingers will tremble the first time you get a big hand), figure out the little things that annoy B&M regulars (don't act out of turn, etc...), and convice yourself that live play really is as beatable as you've been hearing. After an hour or so of 4/8, you'll probably be ready to move up to 6-12 or 9-18 without too much trouble.

Re: Commerce gonna be nuts this weekend??
 

[ QUOTE ]
If you don't get caught up in the frequent preflop caps with KQo, then you'll do fine with a regular tight game.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're so uncreative...one might think you'd never been...

TO THE EDGE!!!!!1!exclamationpo!nt!!

Re: Commerce gonna be nuts this weekend??
 

This weekend is going to be a terriffic time to play the Commerce if it was anything like last night!

They had a raffle giveaway for a BMW (no, I didn't win it, damn it!) and the place was packed with hopefulls. I really didn't have the cash available to play 4/8, but 2/4 was softer than any game I'd played...ever. 8 min to the flop for 4 hours. everyone calling to the river. I double up before the runner brought me my chips! (2 flushes in a row, hand 1 and 2.) I just bided my time waiting for good hands to play, and everyone was obliging enough to come along when I did. One guy actually got angry at me! "You never play cards, you just sit there waiting for pocket pair!" and "You only raise because you have good cards!" and yet this rocket scientist still calls me to the river in case he can hit with his 2 5o on a board of KQT73, and I hold AJs. Nice. By the time I left, I'd more than tripled my buy in. In fact, it was the best single session of any type I'd ever played. (And I owe the knowledge to take advantage of that to you guys here on 2+2 and SSHE! Thank you!)

See you this weekend!

Re: Commerce gonna be nuts this weekend??
 

I wasn't trying to suggest that he play the 20/40, I was just saying that it was that soft, at least everytime I played it. Pretty much any limit game 20/40 and under there seems ridculously soft, at least compared to online games.

Re: Commerce gonna be nuts this weekend??
 

Man, you guys are making this sound pretty fun...haha.

As far as limits and bankroll - I was planning around 2/4 to 4/8, somewhere in that range. I definitely don't want to jump into a game where the money is going to be a scare factor.

Thanks for the info guys.

Re: Commerce gonna be nuts this weekend??
 

You should have NO problem with 2-4 and 4-8, given your 1-2 wins.

And, remember, if something comes up and you don't know what's happening - just ask a dealer, they're dealing with new players every day so don't sweat it.

Someone said above and it's quite right: remember to act when it's YOUR turn and when you're playing a hand, throw a chip on top of it so it doesn't get accidentally sweeped up.

Announce your raises and--

--of course, have fun.

Barron Vangor Toth
BarronVangorToth.com

Re: Commerce gonna be nuts this weekend??
 

[ QUOTE ]
The players are so bad you'd have to hit a horrendous run of cards to blow a stack of 25BBs.

[/ QUOTE ]

i did this at bay 101 2 weeks ago. i think i dropped 33 bets [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]. i would say it was the worst 200 hand stretch of my young limit poker career, but it happens to the best of us. ive never seen so many rivered gutshots in one day. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

rj

Re: Commerce gonna be nuts this weekend??
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If you don't get caught up in the frequent preflop caps with KQo, then you'll do fine with a regular tight game.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're so uncreative...one might think you'd never been...

TO THE EDGE!!!!!1!exclamationpo!nt!!

[/ QUOTE ]
But they weren't sooooted...

Re: Commerce gonna be nuts this weekend??
 

consider the 6/12 at commerce also, it plays a little more passive than the 4/8 but it is slightly tighter and usually has only 1 or 2 tables going...

OPTIMAL STRATEGY used at commerce
 

Look for older korean male or female.
Wait until Korean M/F go on TILT.
Candy from a baby.

OH yeah...3-6 at commerce is -ev...you will have idiots chasing 44 to the river and catching trips... I would play 4-8...but if you want good limit games in so cal try pechanga...KILL POTS!

Re: Commerce gonna be nuts this weekend??
 

I might check this game out. Last time I went to Commerce I played 4/8, and while I started out good, I lost a few large pots with some premium hands and swung down to my original buy in. The LAGiness was a little too much for me and I went back to 2/4. Didn't know they had 6/12.

Re: Commerce gonna be nuts this weekend??
 

[ QUOTE ]
I like this advice. If you're beating 1/2, then you can most likely beat whatever live game your bankroll can handle. Sit down at 4/8 for an hour or so to get over the shakes (I guarantee your fingers will tremble the first time you get a big hand), figure out the little things that annoy B&M regulars (don't act out of turn, etc...), and convice yourself that live play really is as beatable as you've been hearing. After an hour or so of 4/8, you'll probably be ready to move up to 6-12 or 9-18 without too much trouble.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good advice. I would actually recommend playing an hour of $2/$4, just to get the feel and pace of the game. The pots at $4/$8 and up can be intimidating to someone used to $1/$2 online, so I think getting your feet wet would help. But good shite those players are awful. I was up $1500 the first three times I played the Commerce 4/8 and 6/12, and it wasn't the hottest run of cards I've had.

Re: OPTIMAL STRATEGY used at commerce
 

[ QUOTE ]
OH yeah...3-6 at commerce is -ev...you will have idiots chasing 44 to the river and catching trips...

[/ QUOTE ]
Ugh.

Re: OPTIMAL STRATEGY used at commerce
 

[ QUOTE ]
OH yeah...3-6 at commerce is -ev...you will have idiots chasing 44 to the river and catching trips

[/ QUOTE ]

whats it like being a super-donkey?

Re: OPTIMAL STRATEGY used at commerce
 

Yeah commerce is amazing. Don't get there later than 9pm Fri or Sat night or you will have problems finding parking.

However, winning in a single not is not only not a guarantee, its very possible to drop a ton of money. I don't even play any limit at Commerce unless I have enough to drop 5 racks. It doesn't mean I go that deep every time, but if you get in a wild game, there is a ton of money you can win. But you can also lose if you run bad. I've won more than 5 racks at least 10 times when I used to play $3-6, but I've also lost 3-5 racks on a few occasions too. Nothing you can do if you hit huge hands like sets and flushes and keep getting outdrawn.

Re: OPTIMAL STRATEGY used at commerce
 

[ QUOTE ]
Look for older korean male or female.
Wait until Korean M/F go on TILT.
Candy from a baby.

OH yeah...3-6 at commerce is -ev...you will have idiots chasing 44 to the river and catching trips... I would play 4-8...but if you want good limit games in so cal try pechanga...KILL POTS!

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't forget the times 44 doesn't catch and you win with AK and a King on the flop. I gotta remind myself of that. Don't bluff calling stations, but you can value bet with top pair all day long.

Re: Commerce gonna be nuts this weekend??
 

I've played a lot of the California cardrooms and wanted to add a few bits of advice:

- 25BB is probably buying in short. I'd budget 35BB. In these games 4-6 people see every flop and they all chase. You will get sucked out on a lot. This means the game is very +EV, but very high volatilty. You need more buy-in to ride out the variance.

- I don't know how your online game plays, but in these cardrooms you have to play a lot of drawing hands (5-6 through 9-10 suited, maybe some one gapers like J-9 suited, and all the pocket pairs). If you try to stick to a purely tight-agressive top 15 starting hands type of game, you're going to risk running really badly.

- Good luck!

Re: Commerce gonna be nuts this weekend??
 

I was up $1500 the first three times I played the Commerce 4/8 and 6/12, and it wasn't the hottest run of cards I've had.
Not to say you didn't play well, but I think you may be giving off the wrong impression to the B&M newbies. Most of the regular players are poor in skill, but they don't just hand you their wallets, you have to earn it. These numbers, however feasible, come only once in a while, if that.

Re: Commerce gonna be nuts this weekend??
 

Thanks, this is all good info. I'm pretty sure my buddy and I are going there Saturday night. I'll be the big guy with a goattee (hopefully winning).

It sounds like the play is similar to an aggressive .50/1GBP table at Crypto. Those games have lots of players seeing the flop, lots of calling stations, but you can defenitely get sucked out on.

You guys have given some good info, appreciate it.

Re: Commerce gonna be nuts this weekend??
 

Heh,

once you see how donk filled $3-6 and 4-8 are, head over to $9-18 and $15-30(the raised area in the middle of the lo limit and no limit games) and then head over to the $20-40 and $30-60.

It's possible that you would not know they were different level games if they did not use different color chips [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

Re: Commerce gonna be nuts this weekend??
 

Just thought I'd give you guys and update.

My buddy and I got down there last night a little after 8. We decided to try $2/4 to start out. After probably a 10 minute wait I was seated. First orbit or so I was a little nervous and clumsy, but after that I felt right at home. I doubled up real early on, lost some strong draws and a set of Qs, ended the night up $55. My buddy left up $120. This was the first time in a B&M for the both of us.

The players were absolutely horrible. I've read posts on here about how bad they are, but wow, you really have to see it to believe it. Basically any 2 cards at least saw the turn. There was ZERO preflop raising. I heard such gems as "I knew you had the flush, but I gotta call anyway just to keep you honest" or "Man, I can't remember the last time I won with 72o" or "I just had to see the river, you never know"

All in all, it was a blast. I'm defenitely going back, and I"ll be giving $4/8 a try for sure. I wanted to move to it last night, but my table was pretty friendly, we had a good dealer, and before I knew it 1AM had rolled around.

Re: Commerce gonna be nuts this weekend??
 

[ QUOTE ]
I was going to suggest to the original poster that if he fairs well at the $1-$2 online, he should feel perfectly comfortable up to at least the $5-$10 (although you guys out there would have this as a $6-$12 game, yes?).

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, there's no 5/10 in LA anymore. At the Commerce their 6/12 has dried up a bit compared to a few years ago and largely replaced by the fixed buy no limits ($100, $200, and $400). If playing limit around this level, I'd stick to 4/8, which is usually much more action than the 3/6.

Also, I plan to get out later today to play but if you are playing top section expect the LA clubs to be a bit slow in the middle of a holiday weekend (top section players tend to leave town on holiday weekends). Bottom section should be a bit busier than average.

~ Rick

PS Don't work there anymore but the Bike seems to be doing well with 6/12 and 8/16.

Re: Commerce gonna be nuts this weekend??
 

And after you've turned your cards up, don't take your finger off them until you're satisfied that the pot is being pushed to the winning player.

Re: Commerce gonna be nuts this weekend??
 

When I left last night at 3:30 am, there were at least 25 tables going in the top section, maybe more.

Anyway, brief report:

Arrived Friday night around 10:30. Put my name on the $9-18 list and chilled at the rail for a bit, looking over the entire low limit section. I noticed the place was really packed, but very quiet and subdued. Not good for gambling. I talked with James the floorman a bit about it and he was kinda surprised it was so quiet and he commented on the lack of names on the boards despite so many people in the room. Saw a guy who looked like an Antonio Esfandiari imposter so I went for a closer look and it actually was him, coaching Shannon Elizabeth at a $100 or $200 NL game. She still is a uber hottie, even in pigtails, cap, and t-shirt. I considered going into a NL game to try to move to her table. But I figured I would just get drunk and rant incoherrently about rocks and rings, so I decided against it Finally got called to a game. Man, this was the tightest $9-18 game I have played at in a long time. I looked around for a better game, and there just wasn't any gambling going on at all. I stayed. I noticed at my table an ultra aggro player I have never lost too was up quite a bit. To make a long story short, he usually bluffs A LOT. But this night he had the goods everytime. Took me for a bit over $300. I was in appx 15 pots he was in during the night and I won one. Thats it, and several of those were heads up. Not good. One regular who I am familiar with commented about how bored he was due to so many pots being heads up and he left simply due to being bored. I left about 2:30am -$326.

I slept all day Saturday from about 6:30 am to 4:00pm. Felt good to sleep that well. Went out and had some dinner, came home and watched some of the Angel game. Hit Commerce around 10pm. The place was a little more active. Got seated at a $9-18 game. Looked around and recognized 5 players at my table. Most of these guys are losing players, but none of them give up much and are probably only losing due to the drop. Not good. I decide to ride it out and see if some new players come in. Soon I am stuck over $200 and buying another rack. Fortunately uber fish soon sit down and I am sitting on a nice litte $200 win. Unfortunately the rest of the night, I slowly bleed chips. It does not help that I get shot down twice with AA and twice with KK. Around 2:30am, a couple of players sort of go to war preflop and on the flop of AAx. I'm not paying much attention until the river comes A and the board is like AA63A. The first player is asking the second player if he has an Ace. The guy has AQ and the first player shows KK. The loser got $7800 and the winner $220 with table share being $372 each. Not bad at all. I slowly bleed back down to my $600 buy in and as soon as I am paid the jackpot share, I tip $10 to the dealer and $10 to a chip runner that is always very nice to me.

Rolled out having not won anything at the $9-18, but the jackpot share took care of my previous day losses. Hopefully I do better tonight. I will probably hit The Bike and play some $6-12 or $8-16. There is a womans tournament there tonight, and most women do not play well. This is not to say that woman CAN'T play well, just that most don't. I would really like to play in a tournament tonight, but the only one that will cost me less than $100 is at Normandie, and I won't play there due to past cheating by the staff during a tournament I played in.


[ QUOTE ]


Also, I plan to get out later today to play but if you are playing top section expect the LA clubs to be a bit slow in the middle of a holiday weekend (top section players tend to leave town on holiday weekends). Bottom section should be a bit busier than average.



[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Commerce gonna be nuts this weekend??
 

[ QUOTE ]
All low-limit games are regularly soft and beatable. The 4/8 is infamous for its aggressive play, so there is likelihood of large swings. If you don't get caught up in the frequent preflop caps with KQo, then you'll do fine with a regular tight game. The 3/6 is fun also. The 2/4 is painfully boring.

It is packed every weekend at Commerce, but I think the State Poker Championships are back so it will be extra crowded. The longest wait, however, is still the parking lot. Come on down and have a good time.

[/ QUOTE ]

valet is 2 dollars, plus a 2-5 dollar tip (depending on how happy i am)

very well worth it in my opinion

and if i hear another "don't play here they suck out too much" comment i'm gonna hunt that person down and break their leg.

Re: Commerce gonna be nuts this weekend??
 

[ QUOTE ]
The loser got $7800 and the winner $220 with table share being $372 each.

[/ QUOTE ]

[nit-mode on]
The winner should have received 20% of the jackpot. So...$2600 if the loser received $7800.
[nit-mode back to auto]

Re: Commerce gonna be nuts this weekend??
 

Typo: Should have been $2600