sure fire way to fix the gas crisis...
 

quit being so dam weak-tight and start drilling in
alaska already...

Re: sure fire way to fix the gas crisis...
 

But we've got to think about the caribou!

Re: sure fire way to fix the gas crisis...
 

The report I heard on NPR said there's only about two years' oil (for the entire US) in Alaska.

Re: sure fire way to fix the gas crisis...
 

[ QUOTE ]
I heard on NPR

[/ QUOTE ]

Did they verify it with any facts?

Re: sure fire way to fix the gas crisis...
 

You want real solutions? How about they come up with a way to harvest my dog's fart-gas. That's enough energy to power the known world for a few centuries.

Swede

Re: sure fire way to fix the gas crisis...
 

I don't see what people get worked up over. There is a limited supply of oil, the prices will go higher and higher, people will use oil less and less, and eventually the price will probably plateau when people use it barely at all

This shouldn't be news to any one

Re: sure fire way to fix the gas crisis...
 

They cited a source I don't remember.

Re: sure fire way to fix the gas crisis...
 

There isn't that much oil in Alaska. The only way to fix the gas crisis in the long term is to develop alternative energy sources.

Re: sure fire way to fix the gas crisis...
 

[ QUOTE ]
The report I heard on NPR said there's only about two years' oil (for the entire US) in Alaska.

[/ QUOTE ]

for $70/barrel they can get a lot more than that -- if i remember correctly that 2-year bit was back when oil was ~$20/barrel.

Re: sure fire way to fix the gas crisis...
 

Thomas Friedman has been advocating a national gas tax for the past few years. I think that it will end the crisis rather quickly, although admittedly would slow some growth and perhaps adversely affect certain demographics more than others.

It would certainly make soccermom think twice about buying an XtremelyEnormousExcursion or whatever they have now.

Re: sure fire way to fix the gas crisis...
 

aren't taxes the main reason gas prices have always been high in europe?

Re: sure fire way to fix the gas crisis...
 

[ QUOTE ]
aren't taxes the main reason gas prices have always been high everywhere?

[/ QUOTE ]

here too.

Re: sure fire way to fix the gas crisis...
 

gas in europe has historically been much much higher than here, hasn't it? it was > 5.00/gallon in 2002 IIRC, whereas here it was probably 1.50.

Re: sure fire way to fix the gas crisis...
 

That's exactly what we need, more government involvment and taxation...

Re: sure fire way to fix the gas crisis...
 

[ QUOTE ]
gas in europe has historically been much much higher than here, hasn't it? it was > 5.00/gallon in 2002 IIRC, whereas here it was probably 1.50.

[/ QUOTE ]

I wasn't arguing about relative prices. The point was it's much higher than it should be everywhere.

Re: sure fire way to fix the gas crisis...
 

Even if it was approved right now, drilling could not start for about 10 years due to logistics and execution of a drilling plan.

Edit: Short term help announced http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9141205/

Re: sure fire way to fix the gas crisis...
 

[ QUOTE ]
quit being so dam weak-tight and start drilling in
alaska already...

[/ QUOTE ]

As someone else said, drilling in Alaska will only put off the inevitable for a couple of years.

A more effective solution would be to make it a law that all new vehicles must be fuel efficient. Take the SUV's off the road. Make gas super expensive for the few remaining assholes who want to drive their Hummers around, but since the rest of us will be getting 100 miles/gallon we won't feel the pinch.

The US auto industry was dying a slow death 10+ years ago. SUVs resuscitated the industry, which is why federal fuel efficiency laws were never passed.

Re: sure fire way to fix the gas crisis...
 

The EPA recommended today to the governors of each state/territory to temporarily (through September 15) relax the requirements for volatility and sulpher standards in order to allow for more fuel for the country.

Re: sure fire way to fix the gas crisis...
 

Pretty Comprehensive page about all things oil:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8740867/

Re: sure fire way to fix the gas crisis...
 

The Transportation Department has also relaxed regulations on the number of hours a trucker can drive.

Re: sure fire way to fix the gas crisis...
 

[ QUOTE ]
Thomas Friedman has been advocating a national gas tax for the past few years. I think that it will end the crisis rather quickly, although admittedly would slow some growth and perhaps adversely affect certain demographics more than others.

It would certainly make soccermom think twice about buying an XtremelyEnormousExcursion or whatever they have now.

[/ QUOTE ]

For reasons why this wouldn't work, see Toronto. We have a national gas tax, a provincial gas tax, and a sales tax on top of it all. SUV's are everywhere, racing the sports cars to the next red light.

Re: sure fire way to fix the gas crisis...
 

[ QUOTE ]
quit being so dam weak-tight and start drilling in
alaska already...

[/ QUOTE ]

Though I understand and feel your frustration, you have given a moronic, reactionary response to a serious problem.

This is a problem we should have been working on in the US (I say US and ignore the rest of the world here because we use such an absurbly high percentage of the worlds petroleum based fuels) for many years, and the last President to give it more than lip service was Carter.

The Bushes are so tightley tied to the petrochem industry that they will never move on it (as shown by history). Yet we keep fighting wars, killing innocent people, and convincing our young give up their lives to further the profits of these miscreants (yeah, I know it's probably spelled wrong). Drilling more oil wells isn't going to stop any of that whether they are in Alaska or the in the middle east. The only thing that will stop it is using something besides oil for energy. Something that can be manufactured instead of coming out of the ground. If it comes out of the ground it gives the title holder to that land more power than they probably deserve and causes power struggles/wars, just like with oil.

I'm sure their are other options waiting to be found, but we had hydrogen power in use prior to World War II. Now we are being told that it isn't viable for at least another 10-15 years, though I recently read a story about some automaker rolling out a test model later this year. There are too many inconsistancies in the information currently being presented for it to be believable.

Energy is the most important commodity in the the US and around the world, (more important even than food since it is used to harvest food) and it is controlled by an incredibly small group of people. People getting richer and richer on the backs of our taxes, on the backs of the money we spend and more importantly on the lives of many people (civilians and soldiers) in war zones around the world.

What the hell, I'm getting mine, what do I care.

Re: sure fire way to fix the gas crisis...
 

Define "fix."

Although it would help in the mid-term (obviously new drilling won't help in the coming months), it does nothing to solve the eventual 'real' oil/gas crisis.

Politics

Re: sure fire way to fix the gas crisis...
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'm sure their are other options waiting to be found, but we had hydrogen power in use prior to World War II. Now we are being told that it isn't viable for at least another 10-15 years, though I recently read a story about some automaker rolling out a test model later this year. There are too many inconsistancies in the information currently being presented for it to be believable.

[/ QUOTE ]
The fact that a prototype has been built is an indication of development, not maturity of the technology. There is no inconsistency here. Hydrogen technology is not viable at the moment. Also, just because all you see coming out of the car's tailpipe (as it were) is water, doesn't mean that the only byproduct of this energy is water. The pollution is still there, it's just shifted from the tailpipe of the car to the facility that produces the fuel. It takes energy to produce the hydrogen fuel just the same as anything else.

Re: sure fire way to fix the gas crisis...
 

[ QUOTE ]
The EPA recommended today to the governors of each state/territory to temporarily (through September 15) relax the requirements for volatility and sulpher standards in order to allow for more fuel for the country.

[/ QUOTE ]
In this vein, we would also do well for ourselves to have a set of nationwide (or at least regional, where it makes sense) standards for fuel quality and ratings instead of a hodgepodge of varying qualities of fuel from state to state.

Re: sure fire way to fix the gas crisis...
 

[ QUOTE ]
In this vein, we would also do well for ourselves to have a set of nationwide standards for fuel quality and ratings instead of a hodgepodge of varying qualities of fuel from state to state.

[/ QUOTE ]

Take it to politics, n00b. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]







<font color="white">And yes, more involvement by the federal government is the best thing for any situation. </font>

Re: sure fire way to fix the gas crisis...
 

[ QUOTE ]
And yes, more involvement by the federal government is the best thing for any situation.

[/ QUOTE ]

New batteries needed for this one?

Re: sure fire way to fix the gas crisis...
 

Although not immediate fix. lets borrow some Iraqi oil. We got an excuse now.

Re: sure fire way to fix the gas crisis...
 

gas still isn't expensive. there is no crisis. just a bunch of whiners.


imho at least

Re: sure fire way to fix the gas crisis...
 

[ QUOTE ]
gas still isn't expensive. there is no crisis. just a bunch of whiners.


imho at least

[/ QUOTE ]

It's relative to the prices we had. gas prices have doubled in 3 years, has your salary?

Re: sure fire way to fix the gas crisis...
 

[ QUOTE ]
Although not immediate fix. lets borrow some Iraqi oil. We got an excuse now.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the Iraq War was an idiotic idea/invasion from the word go, but I think you're right. We ought to get something back for services rendered. Officious or not, $80 Billion spent on freeing that country ought to lead to some type of tangible benefit.

Re: sure fire way to fix the gas crisis...
 

[ QUOTE ]
Hydrogen technology is not viable at the moment.

[/ QUOTE ]

If it was viable in the 30's and 40's, why would it not be viable now? Certanily there are obsticles, but the largest of these is the current energy supply line status quo.

My larger point, however, is that more drilling for oil is not a long term (and barely a short term) solution, and that the OP was wrong in saying essentiallly, get some stones and drill.

Re: sure fire way to fix the gas crisis...
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hydrogen technology is not viable at the moment.

[/ QUOTE ]

If it was viable in the 30's and 40's, why would it not be viable now?

[/ QUOTE ]
What were they doing with it in the 30's and 40's and what do you want them to do with it now? Just because people were doing things with hydrogen 70 years ago doesn't mean that the technology is there now to reliably and effectively power millions of cars with it.

Re: sure fire way to fix the gas crisis...
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hydrogen technology is not viable at the moment.

[/ QUOTE ]

If it was viable in the 30's and 40's, why would it not be viable now?

[/ QUOTE ]
What were they doing with it in the 30's and 40's and what do you want them to do with it now? Just because people were doing things with hydrogen 70 years ago doesn't mean that the technology is there now to reliably and effectively power millions of cars with it.

[/ QUOTE ]

i think he's talking about:

http://www.vidicom-tv.com/home/image...hindenburg.jpg

Re: sure fire way to fix the gas crisis...
 

[ QUOTE ]
If it was viable in the 30's and 40's, why would it not be viable now?

[/ QUOTE ]

They were doing so well with hydrogen back in the 30s weren't they?

http://www.hydropole.ch/Hydropole/Intro/Hindenburg.gif

Re: sure fire way to fix the gas crisis...
 

[ QUOTE ]
i think he's talking about:
http://www.vidicom-tv.com/home/image...hindenburg.jpg

[/ QUOTE ]

You did not! [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]

Re: sure fire way to fix the gas crisis...
 

You're losing your touch, old man. A whole minute behind the ball.

Swede

Re: sure fire way to fix the gas crisis...
 

[ QUOTE ]
You're losing your touch, old man. A whole minute behind the ball.

Swede

[/ QUOTE ]

must be the arthritis. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: sure fire way to fix the gas crisis...
 

Your picture is much more visual though, if it's any consolation.

Swede

Re: sure fire way to fix the gas crisis...
 

[ QUOTE ]
Your picture is much more visual though, if it's any consolation.

Swede

[/ QUOTE ]

i thought my caption was better too. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]