I am having trouble knowing what to do in this situation
 

table is quite passive... a lot of check call till the river... really havent been on the table much so dont have any solid reads.

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls, MP calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, SB completes, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, UTG calls, MP calls, SB calls.

Flop: (8 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG checks, MP checks.

Turn: (4 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, Hero folds, UTG calls, MP folds.

River: (6 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, UTG calls.

Final Pot: 8 BB

I struggle with this situation, there are so many ppl still in the pot, my AQ doesnt look very likely to showdown a winner... what do you guys do in this situation? I know you have seen it often.

the ch on the flop may have been wrong, but I had seen this situation go bad for me soo much in the last 2 or 3 days that I just checked, gave up and logged off lol

Re: I am having trouble knowing what to do in this situation
 

[ QUOTE ]
table is quite passive... a lot of check call till the river... really havent been on the table much so dont have any solid reads.

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls, MP calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, SB completes, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, UTG calls, MP calls, SB calls.

Flop: (8 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG checks, MP checks.

Turn: (4 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, Hero folds, UTG calls, MP folds.

River: (6 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, UTG calls.

Final Pot: 8 BB

I struggle with this situation, there are so many ppl still in the pot, my AQ doesnt look very likely to showdown a winner... what do you guys do in this situation? I know you have seen it often.

[/ QUOTE ]

some may suggest a flop bet. i may do that if i think some people may fold. against 2 people i bet this flop frequently.

otherwise, i don't see any point in betting the flop and i play it like you did.

Re: I am having trouble knowing what to do in this situation
 

With a king there, Im having a hard time betting that flop beign 2nd to act, you missed a flop and could be very behind. Unless you have specific reads on the players and they fold frequntly to agressionw hen they miss the flop i check/fold...

Even if someone won this pot bluffing, someone couldve just as easily had pocket 2's and could of beat you -_-

Re: I am having trouble knowing what to do in this situation
 

If it's me I think I take a shot at this on the flop but it's probably close with four players. If raised, I call and fold the turn UI. After that it depends on how many are left. If there's only one left I try again on the turn, otherwise, I check/fold.

Re: I am having trouble knowing what to do in this situation
 

I'd bet that flop a lot, if not all, of the time.

Looks to me like SB could easily be betting a 7 on the turn.

Hopefully that would buy you a free card on turn.

Re: I am having trouble knowing what to do in this situation
 

If the guys behind you can't fold flops I play it like you did. If they will fold if they miss, I think representing AK with a flop bet is OK on a ragged board like this.

Re: I am having trouble knowing what to do in this situation
 

i like to bet this flop, they don't know you missed. Next time, when you hit, and you bet, they might think that you missed, since you bet last time when you missed. keep them on your toes, be hard to read (btw-very dumb players don't think about these kinds of things, so just check your junk, and bet your good hands against the most clueless of fishies) I bet this flop, why check? You're just letting them take the pot from you. Show aggression, you could be ahead, you need to bet here at least 55% of the time, even if you miss (that 55% is my own numbers...i like to play aggressively)

you checked, and the SB bet on the turn, he likes his king i think. Fold is good, pot is small. Let this one go.

On second though, a check on the flop isn't TOO bad. In last place a bet is definately in order, and you could win a free card on the turn. Sometimes you can check a strong hand and they won't know the difference, then you trap them.

felipe

Re: I am having trouble knowing what to do in this situation
 

[blind post]

I think this is fine. The flop could certainly have hit someone, and we only have 1 overcard. On the turn, the pot is only 4 BB, and it doesn't look like we have the odds.

On a passive table, I'd much rather have a hand like 88 than AQ on a flop like this. With so many calling down, it's sort of a 'collective collusion'. Your A-high will unlikely still be good at the river, but a mid-PP might.

Re: I am having trouble knowing what to do in this situation
 

I come out betting on this. I think I will know where I am by the reaction I get. As the pre-flop raiser, and a K on the flop, I think I'm getting most to fold.

Re: I am having trouble knowing what to do in this situation
 

I'm firing at this flop a lot, but there's not a single correct way to play this. Depends on the opponents. Also good idea not to do the same thing everytime to keep everyone else on their toes.

Re: I am having trouble knowing what to do in this situation
 

[ QUOTE ]
I come out betting on this. I think I will know where I am by the reaction I get. As the pre-flop raiser, and a K on the flop, I think I'm getting most to fold.

[/ QUOTE ]
So you bet and get a caller or two. Where do you stand? (Note the read in the OP.)

Re: I am having trouble knowing what to do in this situation
 

Having not bet the flop, I would consider raising the SB's bet on the turn-- if you think he'd bet out with any pair. You'll scare the pants off of anyone not holding at least a K with a good kicker. The turn was a rag. There is no flush draw and the straight is not too likely. Your preflop raise could make your check on the flop look like an attempted slowplay, representing something like AK, AA, KK. I'd have to gauge the players, but it's something to think about.

Re: I am having trouble knowing what to do in this situation
 

[ QUOTE ]
Having not bet the flop, I would consider raising the SB's bet on the turn-- if you think he'd bet out with any pair. You'll scare the pants off of anyone not holding at least a K with a good kicker. The turn was a rag. There is no flush draw and the straight is not too likely. Your preflop raise could make your check on the flop look like an attempted slowplay, representing something like AK, AA, KK. I'd have to gauge the players, but it's something to think about.

[/ QUOTE ]
People are missing the original read. Against typical loose-passive players who check/call down, these plays are wasting money. Suppose the turn bettor has a 7. He'll simply call your raise and then check/call the river.

Re: I am having trouble knowing what to do in this situation
 

Tough spot. You don't know how tight or loose these guys are postflop yet, but then again they shouldn't know how passive or aggressive you are when you miss. The board is ragged, so I'd come out swinging on the flop, and be inclined to check/fold an unimproved turn against unknowns.

Re: I am having trouble knowing what to do in this situation
 

If I do get calls, I'd probably check/fold the turn UI.

Re: I am having trouble knowing what to do in this situation
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Having not bet the flop, I would consider raising the SB's bet on the turn-- if you think he'd bet out with any pair. You'll scare the pants off of anyone not holding at least a K with a good kicker. The turn was a rag. There is no flush draw and the straight is not too likely. Your preflop raise could make your check on the flop look like an attempted slowplay, representing something like AK, AA, KK. I'd have to gauge the players, but it's something to think about.

[/ QUOTE ]
People are missing the original read. Against typical loose-passive players who check/call down, these plays are wasting money. Suppose the turn bettor has a 7. He'll simply call your raise and then check/call the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your analysis is too black and white. There are many passive games where agressive play works great. You assume the players are loose as well, which from what was originally posted, is not necessarily the case. Don't confuse passive with loose. I've played many passive games where turn raises get respect. If you never consider such plays in "passive" games, you're missing out.

Re: I am having trouble knowing what to do in this situation
 

[ QUOTE ]
Your analysis is too black and white. There are many passive games where agressive play works great. You assume the players are loose as well, which from what was originally posted, is not necessarily the case. Don't confuse passive with loose. I've played many passive games where turn raises get respect. If you never consider such plays in "passive" games, have fun sucking at poker.

[/ QUOTE ]
Easy there, my friend. I meant no offense.

I may have misinterpreted the OP, but in my mind it sounds like players are calling down. With that in mind, I think a turn raise is reckless.

Re: I am having trouble knowing what to do in this situation
 

Full disclosure: I read the thread this before replying. I'm surprised I remembered how.

This is actually one of the situations where I am working on NOT auto-betting the flop after I raise. I think several factors here argue against a flop bet:

1. You have only 1 overcard to the flop, and there's a decent chance someone hit the high card. People like to play kings.

2. You are at a table full of loose passives, who are probably seeing at LEAST the turn.

3. You are betting into a field of 3.

4. You are out of position. I might fire a bet if I were acting last and all had checked.

When I bet a flop like this in this situation, it usually goes:

flop: I bet, all call.
turn: I bet, 2 call, 1 folds.
river: I check (or spew one last bet), others check or call.

One player has pair of 7s/pair of fives/or pair of kings with a 2 kicker. I lose. Third party has something random like 10h8d. This has actually been a big leak of mine. I think you played it well. But if I were at a tight table, or on the button, or the top card were a jack, I would play it differently.

Re: I am having trouble knowing what to do in this situation
 

[ QUOTE ]
table is quite passive... a lot of check call till the river... really havent been on the table much so dont have any solid reads.

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls, MP calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, SB completes, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, UTG calls, MP calls, SB calls.

Flop: (8 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG checks, MP checks.

Turn: (4 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, Hero folds, UTG calls, MP folds.

River: (6 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, UTG calls.

Final Pot: 8 BB

I struggle with this situation, there are so many ppl still in the pot, my AQ doesnt look very likely to showdown a winner... what do you guys do in this situation? I know you have seen it often.

the ch on the flop may have been wrong, but I had seen this situation go bad for me soo much in the last 2 or 3 days that I just checked, gave up and logged off lol

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd bet this flop against a passive field. You're the pf raiser so your check on the flop screams "I missed" giving your passive opponents the courage to bet their low pairs or ugly king on the turn so I feel it's important to follow your aggression thru to the flop. The board is pretty ragged with only the only high card being the king. This many seeing the turn tells there are at least a couple chasing so a bet may either get some folds or slow them down on the turn. If they just call your flop bet I'm betting the turn as well if checked to, but I'm definately folding to any raises to my turn bet UI.

Re: I am having trouble knowing what to do in this situation
 

[ QUOTE ]
table is quite passive... a lot of check call till the river... really havent been on the table much so dont have any solid reads.

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls, MP calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, SB completes, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, UTG calls, MP calls, SB calls.

Flop: (8 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG checks, MP checks.

Turn: (4 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, Hero folds, UTG calls, MP folds.

River: (6 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, UTG calls.

Final Pot: 8 BB

I struggle with this situation, there are so many ppl still in the pot, my AQ doesnt look very likely to showdown a winner... what do you guys do in this situation? I know you have seen it often.

the ch on the flop may have been wrong, but I had seen this situation go bad for me soo much in the last 2 or 3 days that I just checked, gave up and logged off lol

[/ QUOTE ]

I bet the flop, but make myself ready to give up quickly. Since you don't have solid reads (early in the session), you want to know how villains play against aggression since you're going to be aggressive most of the time. I tend to lean towards aggression when I'm not sure, especially early in a session. I like looking like a LAG.

Re: I am having trouble knowing what to do in this situation
 

[ QUOTE ]
[blind post]

With so many calling down, it's sort of a 'collective collusion'.

[/ QUOTE ]

As opposed to 'individual collusion'. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: I am having trouble knowing what to do in this situation
 

[ QUOTE ]
the ch on the flop may have been wrong, but I had seen this situation go bad for me soo much in the last 2 or 3 days that I just checked, gave up and logged off lol

[/ QUOTE ]

This is tilt, though the check might not be wrong. But your first problem is thinking getting dealt an AQ offsuit is license to print money. It's a marginal hand and being in the BB your in a marginal situation. You raised, you had a bad flop, it didn't work out. What's the problem? I expect to win every time I play, but I don't feel unfairly punished when I don't. Bad flops happen to good people.

-DeathDonkey

Re: I am having trouble knowing what to do in this situation
 

[ QUOTE ]
Bad flops happen to good people.

-DeathDonkey

[/ QUOTE ]
Unfortunately, the opposite is also true! [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Re: I am having trouble knowing what to do in this situation
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
the ch on the flop may have been wrong, but I had seen this situation go bad for me soo much in the last 2 or 3 days that I just checked, gave up and logged off lol

[/ QUOTE ]

This is tilt, though the check might not be wrong. But your first problem is thinking getting dealt an AQ offsuit is license to print money. It's a marginal hand and being in the BB your in a marginal situation. You raised, you had a bad flop, it didn't work out. What's the problem? I expect to win every time I play, but I don't feel unfairly punished when I don't. Bad flops happen to good people.

-DeathDonkey

[/ QUOTE ]

ur right, hence me logging off when I noticed frustration... normally it doesnt happen, I dont really think about previous situations when playing the current one. there was a little frustration but my ch and fold on the turn was calculated mind you, in a field of 4, most likely someone hit a pair considering you normally hit a pair 1/3 of the time or something like that. on this table, for the little bit i was there, I noticed ppl calling down with a lot of ghetto hands, so I was positive my bets/raises were not gonna get respected with folds, just get passive calls.

Re: I am having trouble knowing what to do in this situation
 

You're the pf raiser so your check on the flop screams "I missed" giving your passive opponents the courage to bet their low pairs or ugly king on the turn so I feel it's important to follow your aggression thru to the flop.

Totally agree. I think it's worth 1 small bet to try to win it right there.

Re: I am having trouble knowing what to do in this situation
 

it varies for me. but i'd probably actually play it the same. loose/passive tables i've been at always call the flop bet with only 1 OC on the board unless it's an Ace, so i doubt you're winning it right there, especially if someone has any sort of draw or paired 7/5. i think if it was 3 handed, i'd consider it more.

sometimes i bet it. sometimes i don't. IMO, its table-dependent. you'll get in a lot of trouble auto-betting all the time.