Is this a good floor decision at Wynn?
 

As far as I knew up until today, the managaement was not allowed to look back at the cameras to make a floor decision or to correct something done in error. If there was an error that wasn't pointed out in time, next hand. Here was the situation today.

I was sitting in a NL game at the Wynn when on the river, the first player turns over QQ for queens up and the 2nd player turns over A7 for 7's up. The dealer picks up the QQ and mucks it. Than pushes the pot over to the A7. As he is shuffling, the player next to the QQ guy said "wait a minute, isn't the pot his (pointing to the QQ guy)" The dealer said he thought it was QK. Several others at the table including myself confirmed it was QQ. The A7 already stacked the chips and as far as my knowledge goes, the pot belongs to him. I have lost many big pots in similar situations.

Anyway, they call the floor over. And the floor says that if we agree it was QQ, we can give the pot back to him. So now he has to find out all the action to get the pot exactly right. Of course, no one could remember or agree on who put money into the pot or how much. They went to the cameras and came back 15 minutes later, giving the chips to QQ. Is this normal?

Re: Is this a good floor decision at Wynn?
 

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I have lost many big pots in similar situations.


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Where the hell are you playing?!?!?!?!?! Wherever it is, STOP PLAYING THERE.

Re: Is this a good floor decision at Wynn?
 

well 1st off would you say something if you had won a pot and they pushed it to the other player? (not directing at you I realize it wasnt you in the pot just using it as reference). I think if they cant get an accurate it would be the best way to go.

They already made a decision to give QQ the pot, the video cameras where just to confirm size of pot, not affecting the decision. I think it would be the right thing to do.

Re: Is this a good floor decision at Wynn?
 

I've posted this before, but it is directly on point. I was at a 2/4 table at Canterbury (on a date with Mrs. Milo), when a hand that should have been a chop (A8 vs. A5 on an A2294 board, or some such) was pushed to the A8. Halfway through the next deal, I realized this and told the dealer. She immediately saw her mistake and called the floor. The cards were long gone, so they reconstructed the hand, took the pot from the winner and held it for 15 minutes or so while they reviewed the tape. When the floor returned, he chopped the ~$30 pot.

Re: Is this a good floor decision at Wynn?
 

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I have lost many big pots in similar situations.


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Where the hell are you playing?!?!?!?!?! Wherever it is, STOP PLAYING THERE.

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I agree, why would ever go back to a place that cost you money like that?

Re: Is this a good floor decision at Wynn?
 

Well Commerce is a big room with lots of good games. The floor man at the 10/20 NL game told me he wasn't allowed to look at the cameras.

Re: Is this a good floor decision at Wynn?
 

he's not allowed to look at the camera unless you give him a tip.

Re: Is this a good floor decision at Wynn?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I've posted this before, but it is directly on point. I was at a 2/4 table at Canterbury (on a date with Mrs. Milo), when a hand that should have been a chop (A8 vs. A5 on an A2294 board, or some such) was pushed to the A8. Halfway through the next deal, I realized this and told the dealer. She immediately saw her mistake and called the floor. The cards were long gone, so they reconstructed the hand, took the pot from the winner and held it for 15 minutes or so while they reviewed the tape. When the floor returned, he chopped the ~$30 pot.

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I've only played at a small number of cardrooms other than Canterbury (Mirage, Bellagio, and AJ's in SF) so I don't have a lot to compare it to, but is Canterbury the most well-run room in the country? It's gotta be top-5.

Re: Is this a good floor decision at Wynn?
 

If there was doubt about the size of the pot or the best hand the procedure typically used by a good floor is to impound the pot (or the approximate size of the pot) and place the chips in stacks or a rack near the dealer tray. Then the floor calls the shift manager who would then call surveillance. It generally takes about ten to fifteen minutes to get things fixed.

As an aside, if you protect your hand and double check your opponents hand and the board this would not happen.

~ Rick

Re: Is this a good floor decision at Wynn?
 

I had QQ at the Borgata in AC against 10J. Board was 10J55A. $600 pot was pushed to the other guy. I stupidly missed it. About three hands later, other players mentioned it saying they didn't feel like they had a right to interfere at the time. The whole table, including the 10J, agreed to all the cards. No one at the Borgata, not the dealer, or any floorman, will do anything. They will barely even listen to me. So pissed, but thought, ultimately, after the hand is over, it's over (as they kept telling me).

Re: Is this a good floor decision at Wynn?
 

further confirming that all floorpeople in AC are clueless douches.

Re: Is this a good floor decision at Wynn?
 

Thanks. That actually makes me feel slightly better.

Also, curious what you guys think of the consensus at the table that the three (at least) guys who saw the mistake at the time it was made and deliberately kept quiet about it were correct.

Re: Is this a good floor decision at Wynn?
 

I think it's insane how many people on here fail to correctly identify when they win a pot. How hard is it for you guys to look at your cards, look at your opponents cards, look at the board, and determine the winner?

Re: Is this a good floor decision at Wynn?
 

they are not correct.

in this situation it should be okay to correct a dealer error.

people seem to confuse the whole but about 'one player to a hand' and not helping your opponents with correcting an obvious dealer error.
If I was at the table and saw this I would have certainly pointed it out and would not have felt like I was inapporiately sticking my nose where it didn't belong.


If I given the pot incorrectly I likely would have given it back after it was pointed out to me (or at least offered to split it. But I reserve the right to not do this if the opponent had been a non-stop jack-ass before this hand)

Re: Is this a good floor decision at Wynn?
 

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Also, curious what you guys think of the consensus at the table that the three (at least) guys who saw the mistake at the time it was made and deliberately kept quiet about it were correct.

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The three players acted unwisely and the concensus is incorrect.

If I spot a dealer mistake about awarding the pot I speak up, in the hand or not. Never have I been the only one to speak up.

The best hand wins, it avoids hard feelings like what you're writing now, and preserves the integrity of the game for everyone.

Re: Is this a good floor decision at Wynn?
 

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I had QQ at the Borgata in AC against 10J. Board was 10J55A. $600 pot was pushed to the other guy. I stupidly missed it. About three hands later, other players mentioned it saying they didn't feel like they had a right to interfere at the time. The whole table, including the 10J, agreed to all the cards. No one at the Borgata, not the dealer, or any floorman, will do anything. They will barely even listen to me. So pissed, but thought, ultimately, after the hand is over, it's over (as they kept telling me).

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There is a rule that once the next hand has begun the previous hand cannot be revisited; however, like all other ruels the floor may ignore the rule to do what is in the best interest of the game. Since they player that received the pot in error does not dispute that he had the losing hand he shoudl be given two option: (1) hand over the pot, (2) pick up and leave forever. When I have explained a players options in this manner they have always chosen (1).

Re: Is this a good floor decision at Wynn?
 

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I think it's insane how many people on here fail to correctly identify when they win a pot. How hard is it for you guys to look at your cards, look at your opponents cards, look at the board, and determine the winner?

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Seriously - it's not like you're multitabling.

Re: Is this a good floor decision at Wynn?
 

ive seen some errors in my time at casinos and the bottom line is you have to know the game before u sit down , know everything that can beat u and watch out for yourself . If you have the winning hand and the dealer starts pushing it to someone else then u gotta yell at them and say what are u doing.....remember they are just human not robots...yet

Re: Is this a good floor decision at Wynn?
 

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I was at a 2/4 table at Canterbury (on a date with Mrs. Milo)

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How romantic.

Re: Is this a good floor decision at Wynn?
 

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I had QQ at the Borgata in AC against 10J. Board was 10J55A. $600 pot was pushed to the other guy. I stupidly missed it. About three hands later, other players mentioned it saying they didn't feel like they had a right to interfere at the time. The whole table, including the 10J, agreed to all the cards. No one at the Borgata, not the dealer, or any floorman, will do anything. They will barely even listen to me. So pissed, but thought, ultimately, after the hand is over, it's over (as they kept telling me).

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I've cut and paste directly from a January 2000 Hollywood Park Casino rulebook. This rule is identical in most other cardroom rules in LA (including Commerce). My guess is many other cardroom rulebooks have similar wording:

"The proper time to draw attention to an irregularity in your cards or to an error is when it occurs. No decision can be made by a floorperson once a new hand has begun. Any objection must be made before the first riffle of the shuffle for the next hand."

This rule keeps the floor staff from having to fix mistakes made in past hands where the facts are usually very hard to reconstruct (and chips from improperly awarded pots may already be lost) . Note the text I bolded. This specifies that a floorperson alone can't go back and fix the problem once the next hand starts. If the mistake is severe and clearly identifiable, a shift manager on up can in fact make things right.

~ Rick

Re: Is this a good floor decision at Wynn?
 

Any dispute about ownership of a pot must be made before the first riffle of the shuffle for the next hand. After that, nothing can be done.

Jeff

Re: Is this a good floor decision at Wynn?
 

[ QUOTE ]
As far as I knew up until today, the managaement was not allowed to look back at the cameras to make a floor decision or to correct something done in error. If there was an error that wasn't pointed out in time, next hand. Here was the situation today.

I was sitting in a NL game at the Wynn when on the river, the first player turns over QQ for queens up and the 2nd player turns over A7 for 7's up. The dealer picks up the QQ and mucks it. Than pushes the pot over to the A7. As he is shuffling, the player next to the QQ guy said "wait a minute, isn't the pot his (pointing to the QQ guy)" The dealer said he thought it was QK. Several others at the table including myself confirmed it was QQ. The A7 already stacked the chips and as far as my knowledge goes, the pot belongs to him. I have lost many big pots in similar situations.

Anyway, they call the floor over. And the floor says that if we agree it was QQ, we can give the pot back to him. So now he has to find out all the action to get the pot exactly right. Of course, no one could remember or agree on who put money into the pot or how much. They went to the cameras and came back 15 minutes later, giving the chips to QQ. Is this normal?

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You have lost many pots in this situation...????

How about protecting your hand the dealer never touches my cards till i got my chips in front of me. Its the players responsibility to protect his hand, pot should be the 7s.

Re: Is this a good floor decision at Wynn?
 

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I have lost many big pots in similar situations.


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Where the hell are you playing?!?!?!?!?! Wherever it is, STOP PLAYING THERE.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree, why would ever go back to a place that cost you money like that?

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its his fault not the places... Protect the winning hand!!!!

Re: Is this a good floor decision at Wynn?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I've posted this before, but it is directly on point. I was at a 2/4 table at Canterbury (on a date with Mrs. Milo), when a hand that should have been a chop (A8 vs. A5 on an A2294 board, or some such) was pushed to the A8. Halfway through the next deal, I realized this and told the dealer. She immediately saw her mistake and called the floor. The cards were long gone, so they reconstructed the hand, took the pot from the winner and held it for 15 minutes or so while they reviewed the tape. When the floor returned, he chopped the ~$30 pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

THIS IS HORRIBLE PROTECT UR HAND

Re: Is this a good floor decision at Wynn?
 

[ QUOTE ]
If there was doubt about the size of the pot or the best hand the procedure typically used by a good floor is to impound the pot (or the approximate size of the pot) and place the chips in stacks or a rack near the dealer tray. Then the floor calls the shift manager who would then call surveillance. It generally takes about ten to fifteen minutes to get things fixed.

As an aside, if you protect your hand and double check your opponents hand and the board this would not happen.

~ Rick

[/ QUOTE ]

exactly protecting your winner... ur responsiblity no one elses!

Re: Is this a good floor decision at Wynn?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Any dispute about ownership of a pot must be made before the first riffle of the shuffle for the next hand. After that, nothing can be done. - Jeff

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Did you read my second post? This isn't 100% true in clubs I've worked or played.

~ Rick

Re: Is this a good floor decision at Wynn?
 

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further confirming that all floorpeople in AC are clueless douches.

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Its his fault not the floor person protect the winners!!!