House of Blues AC = worst poker room ever?
 

So I went to AC last night for a 2/4 donkfest. Me and a buddy hit caesers, ballys, and then house of blues. Now this is where it gets interesting. Second hand at the table I have pocket tens in the BB. There is a raise pre-flop flop comes Q high I bet, gets raised and re raised. So I fold. Gets to the river there is a bet a call the re-raisers shows a pair of 5's or some wacked hand the other raiser says nice hand and folds. So I ask to see the original raisers cards because now I am all sorts of confused and the dealer says no, only the players who call the river can see the losing hand. I drop it right there. Then I look in their poker guide and it says that the only players who can request to see a losing hand with called action on the river are players who are dealt cards in the hand. So now I am really pissed and I take it to the floor away from the table and the floor tells me that the rules are WRONG, and that only people who called the river can request to see losing hands. So whatever then a little while later comes another whacked out situation. The small blind gets up without posting, so the button gets moved to the SB, who post, then TWO BB's get posted. Which is weird, but the best part is the SB/button is first to act??? By this point I was totally fed up and just left up a small amount. Anyway my main point is what the hell is up with the house of blues??? Only thing I know is I will not go back. As an aside I have been awake for 24hrs so if this post is sloppy and full of grammar and spelling errors I don't care.

Re: House of Blues AC = worst poker room ever?
 

I HATED the HOB poker room when I visited it in July.. The worst poker room I've ever been in my life.

I'm stunned, that there's actually cretins on this forum who enjoyed that dump.

Re: House of Blues AC = worst poker room ever?
 

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I'm stunned, that there's actually cretins on this forum who enjoyed that dump.

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I liked it, very comfortable, nice atmosphere (quiet), tho I did have to teach the dealers a couple of rules

Re: House of Blues AC = worst poker room ever?
 

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I'm stunned, that there's actually cretins on this forum who enjoyed that dump.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your inability to state your opinion without ad hominem insults isn't exactly something to be proud of, pal.

I enjoyed it, but it's clearly a new room with a bunch of dealers who are learning the rules. The good side of that is, most of the players have no clue either. In 6 months it should be fine, and the games won't be much tougher.

Re: House of Blues AC = worst poker room ever?
 

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[ QUOTE ]
I'm stunned, that there's actually cretins on this forum who enjoyed that dump.

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Your inability to state your opinion without ad hominem insults isn't exactly something to be proud of, pal.

I enjoyed it, but it's clearly a new room with a bunch of dealers who are learning the rules. The good side of that is, most of the players have no clue either. In 6 months it should be fine, and the games won't be much tougher.

[/ QUOTE ]

I played there 4 days last week for the first time. Yeah, the dealers are terrible and that forward moving dealer button was causing all sorts of confusion. But the absolute worst players I have ever encountered are also in that room. I won't play anywhere else until that changes.

Re: House of Blues AC = worst poker room ever?
 

I think you got it wrong somewhere.

Fundamentally a player is entitled to give up his/her claim to the pot at any point and fold his/her hand unseen.

The purpose of a rule that allows other players to see a mucked hand is solely to prevent collusion. This has been discussed ad nauseam on this board, in CP magazine etc. (do a search if you don't believe me).

I don't read from your post that you suspected cheating going on. You were just outplayed by two aggressive goofs, and now you wanted information you did not pay for and were not entitled to.

You're right so far that it makes no sense that only the players involved in the show-down can request to see the mucked hand. Anybody active at the table who suspects collusion should be allowed to voice their concern and the hands be revealed (I would prefer this could only happen with the floors intervention - after all, accusing somebody of cheating is a very serious action, and should be dealt with in the most serious manner).

I just don't see that was the case you described.

Best,

McMelchior (Johan)

Re: House of Blues AC = worst poker room ever?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think you got it wrong somewhere.

Fundamentally a player is entitled to give up his/her claim to the pot at any point and fold his/her hand unseen.

The purpose of a rule that allows other players to see a mucked hand is solely to prevent collusion. This has been discussed ad nauseam on this board, in CP magazine etc. (do a search if you don't believe me).

I don't read from your post that you suspected cheating going on. You were just outplayed by two aggressive goofs, and now you wanted information you did not pay for and were not entitled to.

You're right so far that it makes no sense that only the players involved in the show-down can request to see the mucked hand. Anybody active at the table who suspects collusion should be allowed to voice their concern and the hands be revealed (I would prefer this could only happen with the floors intervention - after all, accusing somebody of cheating is a very serious action, and should be dealt with in the most serious manner).

I just don't see that was the case you described.

Best,

McMelchior (Johan)

[/ QUOTE ]

It's clear the OP suspected collusion in the hand.

Re: House of Blues AC = worst poker room ever?
 

Clear to you, maybe ... I just don't see the words "collusion", "cheating" or "suspicion" anywhere in the post - just "confusion", and in my vocabulary that's something quite different. Maybe the OP can clarify?

Best,

McMelchior (Johan)

Re: House of Blues AC = worst poker room ever?
 

[ QUOTE ]
So I ask to see the original raisers cards because now I am all sorts of confused and the dealer says no, only the players who call the river can see the losing hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Asking to see cards is one of the worse things you can do as a player.
As McMelchior mentioned below, it has been frequently discussed on these forums (perhaps serch on IWTSTH and look at the older archive server).

Might as well post a link to Tommy Angelo's Article on IWTSTH from his web site.


[ QUOTE ]
Then I look in their poker guide and it says that the only players who can request to see a losing hand with called action on the river are players who are dealt cards in the hand. So now I am really pissed and I take it to the floor away from the table and the floor tells me that the rules are WRONG, and that only people who called the river can request to see losing hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sounds like HOB is moving in the right direction by resticting the "right" to see others hands. Note that it's common to have published rules (generally re-published every few years) modified and noted in the floormen's daily log.


[ QUOTE ]
So whatever then a little while later comes another whacked out situation. The small blind gets up without posting, so the button gets moved to the SB, who post, then TWO BB's get posted. Which is weird, but the best part is the SB/button is first to act???

[/ QUOTE ]

Sounds like the HOB is using the method used in Los Angeles ring games. Two blinds are always posted clockwise from (to the right of) the button, and players must take all blinds every round. This sort of thing causes some confusion when other nearby cardrooms do it diferently (i.e., dead button style), but innovation and improvements comes from doing things differently. That said, I don't have a strong opinion regarding which method is better.

~ Rick

Re: House of Blues AC = worst poker room ever?
 

First of thanks everybody for your responses. I will say that I did not suspect collusion I was just curios, and as far as being outplayed well in my experience at 2/4 live you better have at least top pair at showdown because the nuts are always out there somewhere, so I don't consider my fold horrible. Also the other mistake was, I didn't asked to see the cards a friend who was with me did. I personally don't care I just thought it was interesting that HOB has a rules pamphlet, and then they don't go by the rules in the guide. All in all though I really just don't like their cardroom and really any 2/4 game is a soft game so there is no reason to play there.

Re: House of Blues AC = worst poker room ever?
 

A friend in the game or an observer? Only players sitting at the table can request to see discarded hands. Also, it's definitely bad form to ask to see a hand unless you truly suspect cheating.

Jeff

Re: House of Blues AC = worst poker room ever?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Also, it's definitely bad form to ask to see a hand unless you truly suspect cheating

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But (as is also discussed ad nauseum) that doesn't prevent everyone and his brother from asking at $4/8 or lower just out of curiosity or for the sheer hell of it. If everyone else feels entitled to that info, why should I deny myself that advantage? The "only in cases of suspected collusion" horse left the barn a long time ago.

Re: House of Blues AC = worst poker room ever?
 

The house of blues might be one of my favorite new places for low limit hold'em. the dealers are friendly, the floor is fairly quick (with only 10 tables going you sort of expect that though) and the players are AWFUL. I played some 2-4 on friday night and tripled my money up in like 4 hours. I've never seen such loose passive players all night. no preflop raising, staying on with any pair/draw. It was great.

I expect after the WSOP event there in november (or december?) that the popularity of the room will explode and it will be a very big room, there's plenty of space upstairs there for a small expansion if necessary too.

The moving button rule strange but the dealers know what to do so after you argue it the first time (and everyone does) it become no big deal. And besides, it's an extra buck or two in the pot.

Re: House of Blues AC = worst poker room ever?
 

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The moving button rule strange but the dealers know what to do so after you argue it the first time (and everyone does) it become no big deal. And besides, it's an extra buck or two in the pot.

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I must have missed this. What's the rule?

Re: House of Blues AC = worst poker room ever?
 

aha - I think it is to eliminate the possibilty of the person who was the button from getting it again when the SB busts out, thus giving that person an advantage for one more hand. Something like that. When I first saw the chart, it looks like someone is getting screwed with a double blind but that is not the case. I can't get the chart to come out right so see this link....

http://www.homepokertourney.com/button.htm

Re: House of Blues AC = worst poker room ever?
 

The point of all this is that you left a table where either pocket 5s or a hand that couldn't beat pocket fives three bet a queen high flop.

I just can not believe you would leave such a good table over something so trivial.

Re: House of Blues AC = worst poker room ever?
 

Threaten to have the Casino Control Commission involved if they don't follow their own printed rules.

Showboat is owned by HARRAH\'S, not House of Blues
 

Showboat is owned by HARRAH'S. It is Harrah's poker room, not "House of Blues". That's the same Harrah's which snatched SEVEN MILLION from hosting 2005 WSOP. If you think the poker room was poorly operated....place blame where it belongs...HARRAH'S.

Re: Showboat is owned by HARRAH\'S, not House of Blues
 

The poker room is co-branded with the House of Blues. You're absolutely right that Harrah's, not HoB, runs the room, but it's not incorrect to call it the House of Blues room. Indeed, I'm sure Harrah's is paying them or otherwise granting some sweetheart deal to use the HoB name.

Re: Showboat is owned by HARRAH\'S, not House of Blues
 

House of Blues is getting 10% (or something close to that, I forget the exact number) of whatever Showboat makes. There had to be a NJ law change to allow this (the previous allowed percentage I think was 5%).

Re: House of Blues AC = worst poker room ever?
 

It's clear the OP suspected collusion in the hand.

No, it's clear that he was pissed off and wanted to know the powerhouse hand that folded to a pair of fives.

Re: House of Blues AC = worst poker room ever?
 

but innovation and improvements comes from doing things differently

Rick, are you saying the confusion this is causing is an improvement?

While I can see that the 3-blind hands are going to be action hands, I'm not sure I see that as an improvement either- sort of a kill game without the higher stakes.

Re: House of Blues AC = worst poker room ever?
 

[ QUOTE ]
but innovation and improvements comes from doing things differently

Rick, are you saying the confusion this is causing is an improvement?

While I can see that the 3-blind hands are going to be action hands, I'm not sure I see that as an improvement either- sort of a kill game without the higher stakes.

[/ QUOTE ]


Over ten years ago an occasional writer for Card Player named John Fox (not sure of his first name but the last name was Fox) wrote a two page article on dead button versus forward moving button. He went into a lot of detail and if memory serves me I believe Mr. Fox thought the forward moving button generated more action and was a little more fair. I agree, but don't have a strong opinion since most of my play is in card rooms with a forward moving button.

The confusion is caused by the fact most other casinos in the area HOB is located use the dead button. If the forward moving button gets a reputation for generating more action, it might eventually be adopted elsewhere in that area.

~ Rick

Re: House of Blues AC = worst poker room ever?
 

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the nuts are always out there somewhere

[/ QUOTE ]

Quite often burried in the remainder of the deck....

Re: House of Blues AC = worst poker room ever?
 

[ QUOTE ]
It's clear the OP suspected collusion in the hand.

No, it's clear that he was pissed off and wanted to know the powerhouse hand that folded to a pair of fives.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes. It's also clear I gave the OP a lot more credit than he deserved. [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

Re: House of Blues AC = worst poker room ever?
 

I stopped by the HOB on Friday night as well. I can concur, the players were the worst I had seen. Capping preflop and flop with any 2, etc. However, the staff seems to have even less of a clue. To elaborate on the button must move rule, this was stated to me as "The new rule for this week." How can a room hope to survive if rules of the game are changing from week to week? The location of the room is also possibly the worst in the city.

Re: House of Blues AC = worst poker room ever?
 

I do have to agree with you about the location. It's nice being away from the casino, but it doesnt attract as many random gamblers as other places and is really annoying to have to go all the way across the building to get outside (especially since I don't get any phone service inside)

Re: House of Blues AC = worst poker room ever?
 

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It's nice being away from the casino, but it doesnt attract as many random gamblers as other places and is really annoying to have to go all the way across the building to get outside (especially since I don't get any phone service inside)

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The boardwalk is very close to the bottom of the escalator. But I agree the location of the room is not ideal.

Re: House of Blues AC = worst poker room ever?
 

[ QUOTE ]
So I went to AC last night for a 2/4 donkfest. Me and a buddy hit caesers, ballys, and then house of blues. Now this is where it gets interesting. Second hand at the table I have pocket tens in the BB. There is a raise pre-flop flop comes Q high I bet, gets raised and re raised. So I fold. Gets to the river there is a bet a call the re-raisers shows a pair of 5's or some wacked hand the other raiser says nice hand and folds. So I ask to see the original raisers cards because now I am all sorts of confused and the dealer says no, only the players who call the river can see the losing hand. I drop it right there. Then I look in their poker guide and it says that the only players who can request to see a losing hand with called action on the river are players who are dealt cards in the hand. So now I am really pissed and I take it to the floor away from the table and the floor tells me that the rules are WRONG, and that only people who called the river can request to see losing hands. So whatever then a little while later comes another whacked out situation. The small blind gets up without posting, so the button gets moved to the SB, who post, then TWO BB's get posted. Which is weird, but the best part is the SB/button is first to act??? By this point I was totally fed up and just left up a small amount. Anyway my main point is what the hell is up with the house of blues??? Only thing I know is I will not go back. As an aside I have been awake for 24hrs so if this post is sloppy and full of grammar and spelling errors I don't care.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your actually worried about collusion at the 2-4 table because some one reraised with pocket 5's on the flop? Thats what 2-4's all about. If they are cheating, the better question is who are they cheating more at this low limit, themselves, or u.

Re: House of Blues AC = worst poker room ever?
 

Okay so anyway I did suspect cheating nor was I pissed off really. I thought the room was horrible and the part I really did not understand was the fact that the floor was contradicting written house rules. It is quite obvious to me that I should never write another without first sleeping and thinking although this one has taken on a life of its own.

Re: House of Blues AC = worst poker room ever?
 

[ QUOTE ]
As an aside I have been awake for 24hrs so if this post is sloppy and full of grammar and spelling errors I don't care.

[/ QUOTE ]
Q: What do a young man and grammer have in common?

A: They both want to be respected.

-Eli Seigel