final table facing overbet with TPGK
 

empire $100.

down to 3-handed. prizes are 1100, 1570, 2700.


Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t800 (3 handed) converter

BB (t36439)
Hero (t37858)
SB (t25703)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t2000</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, BB calls t1200.

Flop: (t4400) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t2700</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises to t5400</font>, Hero calls t2700.

Turn: (t15200) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB pushes 29039. hero?


villain probably sees me as aggro. we just started 3-handed ~15 hands ago, and i've stolen his BB from the button several times. if he's been paying attention, he's seen me bet-fold a few times while there were more players.

villain has been on the tight side. he gave me 3 walks in the BB over the course of the final table, and except for one hand, he hasn't done anything really weird. on that hand, a short stack SB min raised, villain min 3-bets with 72s, and the PC'ed SB pushes. this was when there were ~7 left at the FT, btw.

his pre-flop raises and bets post-flop have been somewhat abnormally large, but i haven't seen him overbet anything like this.

incidentally, anyone know how to turn off chat, or at least observer chat? the railbirds were kind of obnoxious while i was thinking.

edit: snappier title

Re: final table hand
 

if you right-click the chat box, there should be an option to "turn off viewer chat"

Re: final table hand
 

eh, I'd call. Of course I would need to observe this guy to feel OK with the call...
[ QUOTE ]
incidentally, anyone know how to turn off chat, or at least observer chat? the railbirds were kind of obnoxious while i was thinking.

[/ QUOTE ]
you can make this setting in the little chat box "no player chat"

Re: final table facing overbet with TPGK
 

what did you put him on when he raised you on the flop? my gut tells me he probably has a flush draw (and maybe a straight draw by the turn) and is pushing the turn as a semi-bluff. if he has a set or even two-pair, he's playing it absolutely horribly. if your image is aggro, shouldn't he be slowplaying and trapping you?

i'd call.

Re: final table facing overbet with TPGK
 

I think I'd redouble to 10800 on the flop, and be ready to toss it if he doesn't back off. If he just calls then proceed with caution, but if he shoves over the top.... well, hats off to him. The problem is that your bet on the flop did not show strength really, considering how often you do it. And when he doubles and you call, you are yet to define your hand really. If you repop to 11k then the hand gets clearer. This guy isn't tricky and isn't going to try to push you off the KQ that you're representing unless you're already smoked.

In the given hand how you played it, I toss that hand on the turn to this seeminly weak tightish pretty straightforward player. The turn put two 2 flushes and a 3 straight on board, so he isnt f***ing around and wants to shove any possible draw the hell out. I don't think he's doing this with QT or 99 or a pure bluff. I think it reeks of a Q7ish two pair or set of 4s that wants the pot settled NOW (or you to call off a ton of chips with a worse hand). At worst he's on a big draw. Against this guy, I'd be outright shocked to see him do this with a worse hand.


That's my take.


Kings

Re: final table facing overbet with TPGK
 

bump for the weekday crowd

Re: final table facing overbet with TPGK
 

I absolutely hate your flop call. I really think this is a reraise/fold situation on the flop, and on this board 3 handed I'm reraising every time.

Re: final table facing overbet with TPGK
 

[ QUOTE ]
I absolutely hate your flop call. I really think this is a reraise/fold situation on the flop, and on this board 3 handed I'm reraising every time.

[/ QUOTE ]

why? if i push now, i'm going to lose hands like 88 or AJ that are drawing very thin. i think i have way too much hand to fold to the c/r. i've been aggro enough that villain could have a wide range here. my plan was to push a blank turn and make a decision if the flush card got there.

Re: final table facing overbet with TPGK
 

Call it.

If he had AK, he would have reraised PF.
If he has a set, he's playing this offly weird. Maybe he's trying to protect against a possible flush draw, but not likely.

You should have reraised the flop.

Re: final table facing overbet with TPGK
 

are you really considering a fold? Autocall...

Re: final table facing overbet with TPGK
 

(blind)

I think on the button you should bet more than 2.5bbs. You offere the BB too good of odds to call with anything.

On the flop after he checks I would bet the pot to take it down or define what kind of hand he might have.

He probably played some garbage and hit a strt draw and then nailed it on the turn. He also could have called with Q6 protecting his blind, and nailed two pair on the turn.

if he is conservative player I would fold to his all-in,

Re: final table facing overbet with TPGK
 

[ QUOTE ]

why? if i push now, i'm going to lose hands like 88 or AJ that are drawing very thin.

[/ QUOTE ]

Three handed? No you aren't, and you're not getting much more out of AJ unless he hits.

Re: final table facing overbet with TPGK
 

[ QUOTE ]
Three handed? No you aren't, and you're not getting much more out of AJ unless he hits.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh yes you are. For example, you're getting his stack when he overbet pushes the turn with 3 outs.

Re: final table facing overbet with TPGK
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Three handed? No you aren't, and you're not getting much more out of AJ unless he hits.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh yes you are. For example, you're getting his stack when he overbet pushes the turn with 3 outs.

[/ QUOTE ]

does this mean you call the turn?

Re: final table facing overbet with TPGK
 

Yes. But I should mention that the way I play sets those calls up.

Re: final table facing overbet with TPGK
 

[ QUOTE ]
Yes. But I should mention that the way I play sets those calls up.

[/ QUOTE ]

what does that mean? you splash around with hands that you could get pushed off of?

Re: final table facing overbet with TPGK
 

I call here. I think there is a small chance that villain has 2 pair, but I would more expect to see qt or qj, with villain playing the line of pushing any non-spade non-ace turn. I think he would re-pop preflop with a good ace.

Re: final table facing overbet with TPGK
 

I agree completely with EK's analysis. If Villian has been screwing around in the past, I'm gonna have to call the push and hope he shows a slightly worse hand. However, without some read that suggests he is getting out of line I'm gonna have to give him credit for a hand better than top pair given all the draws. I'm thinking that the only hand we can beat that will reasonable follow this betting pattern is top pair with a very slightly worse kicker.

Re: final table facing overbet with TPGK
 

I'm really just trying to learn MTT's more, but I will take a stab at this.

I think I would put BB on a 56. Seems with your description of the situation, that he was semi bluffing with the ReRaise on the flop to see where you were at, since you had been aggro. I think your flat call on his flop RR and his 6 pairing on the turn have him pushing this turn. He has decided to take a stand and win his past blinds back.

Tough call, I think I would have to do it.

Re: final table facing overbet with TPGK
 

I think there's a lot of different things he could have, and so, in light of your aggressive image, I think it's an easy call. I think it's too easy for him to have a QJ or QT type of hand. Sure, he could have slowplayed AA or KK, or have flopped better, but he could also have a draw. I think you also have to consider that there is more than a tiny chance that he is on a bluff drawing slim.

The thing about reraising him on the flop to me is that if he has a beaten Q, you may just scare him off...but you may not (especially if he sees you as aggro), and it would be especially bad to then fold to an all in against a hand you're way ahead of....if he has worse and no draw, then you definitely scare off a hand that may bluff (and your aggressiveness has made a bluff more likely now)...and if he does have a draw, and say you double the raise to 10800, then he's almost getting 4 to 1 to call anyway. You could reraise more, say to 15000, but I'd want to be very confident I was beat if he then moved in, in order to fold. I'm more inclined in this particular instance to just call and give him a chance to play a worse hand on the turn. Given the card that came off, I'd call without much thought. If he has you beat, gg.

Re: final table facing overbet with TPGK
 

I think you're ahead more often than you're behind.
Three-handed, I'm having a difficult time finding a fold. A7s, Kx, 56.. all possible here.

Re: final table facing overbet with TPGK
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think on the button you should bet more than 2.5bbs. You offere the BB too good of odds to call with anything.

[/ QUOTE ]

True, he is daring the BB to call, but I think this is a pretty good time to do that. Stealing the blinds isn't particularly meaningful in this case, and KQ dominates a lot of hands that opponents will be tempted to play from the BB. You will have position, with a good hand. Not a bad time to encourage action.

Re: final table facing overbet with TPGK
 

i was open-raising for 2.5x every time i opened from the button regardless of my hand. i like to keep it small so that folding to a pre-flop reraise is not too painful.

Re: final table facing overbet with TPGK
 

If im raising this flop im planning on calling or getting it all in on the turn. I would decide on the flop if i was in or out of the hand. The turn issue can be avoided if you think farther ahead and get a plan.

Re: final table facing overbet with TPGK
 

[ QUOTE ]
If im raising this flop im planning on calling or getting it all in on the turn. I would decide on the flop if i was in or out of the hand. The turn issue can be avoided if you think farther ahead and get a plan.

[/ QUOTE ]

i was planning on raising the turn all-in or betting 3/4 pot if he checked, which i did not think he would do. i had not thought ahead about the gigantic shove.

Re: final table facing overbet with TPGK
 

[ QUOTE ]
what does that mean? you splash around with hands that you could get pushed off of?

[/ QUOTE ]

I play...kinda weird weak tight kinda super aggro in some spots. I'll raise/fold a lot, check a lot more than most people, rarely fire a second barrel, etc. and it gives a lot of LAGs the impression that I can be pushed off a hand. So I see a lot of these flop CR's/turn big bets or overbet combos, and I just call them down to see them drawing dead or with some second pair almost every time.