Anyone else noticed this JTs BS?
 

Lately I've been hearing a lot of people in B&M rooms saying "JTs makes the most money in poker." Its generally a retard, but lately I've heard people I otherwise respected spouting off this BS. Last night it was some douche college kid that I had a running conversation with, and I asked him wtf he was talking about it, and he gave some retarded explanation. I asked him if he meant "JTs can make the most straights" or something like that. He was pretty sure JTs makes the most money of any hand in poker. Anybody else heard this garbage?

Re: Anyone else noticed this JTs BS?
 

Well, there was an article in Card Player a couple months back giving a discussion of the hand vs. other holdings. But, it is far from saying it is the most profitable hand in poker.

Re: Anyone else noticed this JTs BS?
 

On the "poker is rigged" internet, everybody knows that Granny Mae is the most profitable hand.

[img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Anyone else noticed this JTs BS?
 

It's true, oh it's true.

Re: Anyone else noticed this JTs BS?
 

If everyone limps to me in the BB I'd probably rather be holding JTs than AA. Although even in that situation I doubt JTs is that huge a money maker over AA (if it even is, its just alot easier to play ;0)

Although he might just be right. That kind of hand sucks out on my high pockets more often than any other.... lol

Re: Anyone else noticed this JTs BS?
 

WRONG

Re: Anyone else noticed this JTs BS?
 

Aren't we a mood killer

Re: Anyone else noticed this JTs BS?
 

It's clearly not as good as QTs. (By the way, I know I didn't raise on the turn and I should have (perhaps on the flop too). So hold that comment.)

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (9 handed) pokerhand.org hand converter

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. UTG posts a blind of $1. CO posts a blind of $1.
UTG (poster) checks, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, CO (poster) checks, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, SB completes, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises</font>, UTG calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, CO folds, SB calls, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (13 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG raises</font>, Hero calls, SB folds, BB calls.

Turn: (9.50 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, Hero calls, BB calls.

River: (12.50 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, BB calls, UTG calls.

Final Pot: 18.50 BB

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
BB has Ad Ah (one pair, aces).
UTG has Kh 9h (two pair, kings and nines).
Hero has Qs Ts (straight, king high).
Outcome: Hero wins 18.50 BB. </font>

Re: Anyone else noticed this JTs BS?
 

[ QUOTE ]
It's clearly not as good as QTs. (By the way, I know I didn't raise on the turn and I should have (perhaps on the flop too). So hold that comment.)

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (9 handed) pokerhand.org hand converter

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. UTG posts a blind of $1. CO posts a blind of $1.
UTG (poster) checks, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, CO (poster) checks, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, SB completes, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises</font>, UTG calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, CO folds, SB calls, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (13 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG raises</font>, Hero calls, SB folds, BB calls.

Turn: (9.50 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, Hero calls, BB calls.

River: (12.50 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, BB calls, UTG calls.

Final Pot: 18.50 BB

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
BB has Ad Ah (one pair, aces).
UTG has Kh 9h (two pair, kings and nines).
Hero has Qs Ts (straight, king high).
Outcome: Hero wins 18.50 BB. </font>

[/ QUOTE ]

BB would not even cap with AA?? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Re: Anyone else noticed this JTs BS?
 

Page 46-7 of Ed Miller's book...granted it's not the Bible, but charts are so much harder to argue with. In my last 10,000 on PT, AA has taken 2.67BB/hand, AQs 1.91BB/hand, KK 1.84 BB/hand, AJs 1.27 BB/hand, AKo 1.01BB/hand. These have been my most profitable hands. Granted, I'm not a pro and this is a smallish selection, but still, the correlation seems to sit here with high pocket pairs and Ace paint. Just my two cents, not sure if it's incredibly coherent. Hope it was worth your reading.

Re: Anyone else noticed this JTs BS?
 

[ QUOTE ]
AJs 1.27 BB/hand,

[/ QUOTE ]
I hate you. I'm actually losing money on AJs over 30k hands. AJo is a winner though, gotta love variance.

Re: Anyone else noticed this JTs BS?
 

[ QUOTE ]
BB would not even cap with AA??

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly. Both of them threw in a little something into the chat box after that hand. And I normally don't talk while multitabling, but I said something about how they both played their hands quite badly. That shut them up. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Anyone else noticed this JTs BS?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Lately I've been hearing a lot of people in B&amp;M rooms saying "JTs makes the most money in poker." Its generally a retard, but lately I've heard people I otherwise respected spouting off this BS. Last night it was some douche college kid that I had a running conversation with, and I asked him wtf he was talking about it, and he gave some retarded explanation. I asked him if he meant "JTs can make the most straights" or something like that. He was pretty sure JTs makes the most money of any hand in poker. Anybody else heard this garbage?

[/ QUOTE ]

By the way, I completely agree with you on this. I don't know where this trend started but now everyone seems to think that suited connectors are the good stuff and they say that playing limit, they would rather have a suited connector than AA.

Anyway, a couple of months ago, a very humurous situation occurred while I was playing live 3/6. In the CO, I hold 78s. There is one limper, a raiser, and a typical middle aged fish to my right calls. I fold. The flop comes a rainbow 69T. Long story short, the lady (the fish) to my right takes it down with 78o. I was bored, so I said something about how I folded 78s. So everyone at my side of the table started telling me how I should have played that as those types of hands are the best in limit. The fish my right said something to the extent of "you gotta play them like aces" (to which I almost responded with "then why didn't you 3 bet PF" but I refrained).

The very next hand, I am again dealt 78s on the button. There are 2 limpers, I limp, and the SB raises. Everyone calls. This time, I flop a straight flush to ten (yes, a SF). It is checked to the same fish to my right who bets. Everyone but one limper calls. On the turn, same action, except the blinds now fold. On the river, she bets again, and I raise. She is quite shocked that I take it at showdown with the straight flush saying how she "had good 2 pair." After this, everyone started saying I only only played that 78s because after the previous hand everyone told me that I SHOULD have played it.

That made my day.

Re: Anyone else noticed this JTs BS?
 

[ QUOTE ]
(to which I almost responded with "then why didn't you 3 bet PF" but I refrained).

[/ QUOTE ]
Last time I played at the Taj there was a fish there capping with suited connectors... he unfortunately moved up to a limit where I couldn't follow :-(

Re: Anyone else noticed this JTs BS?
 

A friend of mine was saying something similar the other day, but he was saying mid-suited connectors. So I asked a bit more and he said that they are better because they have both flush and straight potential and beat AA rather frequently. He said he saw it on TV somewhere and he really had a hard time believing it. I thought about it for a second and asked him 2-3 more questions and then the lighbulb went off. I asked him if he meant that mid-suited connectors have the best chance of cracking AA and he sat still for a second and then declared himself an idiot... he said that IS EXACTLY what he was meaning. Seems that on WPT or some other show, they had some type of quiz asking thinks like what is the odds of being dealt pocket Aces (220:1), or best hand to crack AA, etc. Not sure if it is related, but sounds like it could be.. at least for some. Just another case of people misunderstanding things said on TV.

Re: Anyone else noticed this JTs BS?
 

I haven't heard it, but it might explain why two people gave me all their chips with JTs in two SNGs this afternoon. I was thinking they were just morons.

Re: Anyone else noticed this JTs BS?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Lately I've been hearing a lot of people in B&amp;M rooms saying "JTs makes the most money in poker." Its generally a retard, but lately I've heard people I otherwise respected spouting off this BS. Last night it was some douche college kid that I had a running conversation with, and I asked him wtf he was talking about it, and he gave some retarded explanation. I asked him if he meant "JTs can make the most straights" or something like that. He was pretty sure JTs makes the most money of any hand in poker. Anybody else heard this garbage?

[/ QUOTE ]

I hear it all the time, but then again i have stellar table selection. [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

Re: Anyone else noticed this JTs BS?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Lately I've been hearing a lot of people in B&amp;M rooms saying "JTs makes the most money in poker." Its generally a retard, but lately I've heard people I otherwise respected spouting off this BS. Last night it was some douche college kid that I had a running conversation with, and I asked him wtf he was talking about it, and he gave some retarded explanation. I asked him if he meant "JTs can make the most straights" or something like that. He was pretty sure JTs makes the most money of any hand in poker. Anybody else heard this garbage?

[/ QUOTE ]

I hear it all the time, but then again i have stellar table selection. [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

I personally like to perpetuate this myth. Anytime I hear it I go along with whatever is said, saying things like "now that you mention it, I can't remember the last time I saw JTs lose. Weird!!!"

Swede

Re: Anyone else noticed this JTs BS?
 

[ QUOTE ]
"now that you mention it, I can't remember the last time I saw JTs lose. Weird!!!"


[/ QUOTE ]

LOL!!! Great quote, but anyway how about saying, "I would go all in with JTs against aces anyday"

Re: Anyone else noticed this JTs BS?
 

[ QUOTE ]

In the CO, I hold 78s.
...
The very next hand, I am again dealt 78s on the button.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you ever have to pay the blinds?

Re: Anyone else noticed this JTs BS?
 

[ QUOTE ]
And I normally don't talk while multitabling, but I said something about how they both played their hands quite badly. That shut them up.

[/ QUOTE ]




ummmmm.....good job????

Re: Anyone else noticed this JTs BS?
 

Statistically speaking:

Holdem Hi: 1712304 enumerated boards
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
As Ah 1355912 79.19 349220 20.39 7172 0.42 0.794
Jh Th 349220 20.39 1355912 79.19 7172 0.42 0.206

However, this seems to be the best hand for cracking aces. (Of course, I'll still take my chances with AA)

Holdem Hi: 1712304 enumerated boards
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
As Ah 1315602 76.83 391672 22.87 5030 0.29 0.770
8c 7c 391672 22.87 1315602 76.83 5030 0.29 0.230

So technically, J T is not the best hand to crack AA. Please remember this information should not be feed to the fish.

Re: Anyone else noticed this JTs BS?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


In the CO, I hold 78s.
...
The very next hand, I am again dealt 78s on the button.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Do you ever have to pay the blinds?

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmm yeah good point. This isn't the first time I've gotten mixed up regarding the direction of the button moving. I was actually in the SB on the first hand, and on the button the following hand. Thanks for pointing that out.

Re: Anyone else noticed this JTs BS?
 

I was once talking with a poker pro and author who told me that a lot of old-timers believed this, until the mathematicians crunched the #'s for them.

Re: Anyone else noticed this JTs BS?
 

Doesn't change the big picture, but since the 78s (in the example given) isn't the of the same suit as one of the Aces...

Holdem Hi: 1712304 enumerated boards
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
As Ah 1337569 78.12 368978 21.55 5757 0.34 0.783
Jc Tc 368978 21.55 1337569 78.12 5757 0.34 0.217

Re: Anyone else noticed this JTs BS?
 

Perhaps the argument can be made that WHEN IT WINS, JTs makes the most money.

The reason would be that it usually wins by making a straight or a flush and those hands tend to win larger pots. Furthermore, if you make a straight with JT, there is a good chance that there will be overcards on the table that will go in as well.

Re: Anyone else noticed this JTs BS?
 

AA 2.62 BB/hand
KK 1.44 BB/hand
QQ 1.36 BB/hand
AKs 1.25 BB/hand
JTs 0.02 BB/hand

Re: Anyone else noticed this JTs BS?
 

This is a great thread. I once heard the same hoopla about this hand and wondered what I was doing wrong when I played it.

I played recently in a B&amp;M with a WPT-pretender-type guy (sunglasses, running commentary about how others played hands, etc) who proudly announced to the table that he would gladly call any preflop cap with his favorite hand, J-10 (or, as he called it, "Johnny-10", lmao).

Regrettably, there was a hand where he called a preflop 3x bet with J-10, and rivered a third jack to beat KK. "Johnny-10, baby!!!!!!" he literally screamed as he dragged the pot. Ugh. . . .

Re: Anyone else noticed this JTs BS?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Lately I've been hearing a lot of people in B&amp;M rooms saying "JTs makes the most money in poker." Its generally a retard, but lately I've heard people I otherwise respected spouting off this BS. Last night it was some douche college kid that I had a running conversation with, and I asked him wtf he was talking about it, and he gave some retarded explanation. I asked him if he meant "JTs can make the most straights" or something like that. He was pretty sure JTs makes the most money of any hand in poker. Anybody else heard this garbage?

[/ QUOTE ]

Im sure he said it makes the most nuts str8's. But dont talk to the fish.

Re: Anyone else noticed this JTs BS?
 

oddly, in my database AA is the big winner.

Re: Anyone else noticed this JTs BS?
 

No 72os is the best hand.

peace

Re: Anyone else noticed this JTs BS?
 

AA against 2 guys who had been playing chicken all night:

PokerStars 0.02/0.04 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero caps</font>, Button calls, SB calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: (21 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, UTG calls, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, Button calls $0.04 (All-In), <font color="#CC3333">SB caps</font>, UTG folds, MP2 calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (17 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players, 1 all-in)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 raises</font>, Hero calls, <font color="#CC3333">SB 3-bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 caps</font>, Hero calls, SB calls.

River: (29 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players, 1 all-in)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 raises</font>, Hero calls, <font color="#CC3333">SB 3-bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 caps</font>, Hero calls, SB calls.

Final Pot: 40.25 BB

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
SB has Qh Jh (one pair, queens).
MP2 has Js Jc (one pair, jacks).
Hero has Ah Ac (one pair, aces).
Button has Ts Kc (high card, king).
Outcome: Hero wins 40.25 BB. </font>

the true best hand is A7s:

PokerStars 0.02/0.04 Hold'em (8 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls, Hero calls, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 3-bets</font>, CO calls, Button calls, SB calls, BB calls, UTG calls, Hero calls, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 caps</font>, MP2 calls, CO calls, Button calls, SB calls, BB calls, UTG calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (32 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(8 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 raises</font>, CO folds, Button folds, SB folds, BB calls, UTG folds, Hero calls, MP1 calls.

Turn: (20 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
BB checks, Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 bets</font>, MP2 calls, BB calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, MP1 calls, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 3-bets</font>, BB calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero caps</font>, MP1 calls $0.03 (All-In), MP2 calls, BB calls.

River: (34.75 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players, 1 all-in)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 3-bets</font>, BB calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero caps</font>, MP2 calls, BB calls.

Final Pot: 44.75 BB

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
BB has 3c Jc (straight, six high).
Hero has 7s As (straight, seven high).
MP1 has Ts 8s (straight, six high).
MP2 has Ad 4d (straight, six high).
Outcome: Hero wins 44.75 BB. </font>

----------------------------------------------

Sexton said something about JTs being a hand pros love. That might be all it takes these days.

Re: Anyone else noticed this JTs BS?
 

[ QUOTE ]
If everyone limps to me in the BB I'd probably rather be holding JTs than AA.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yikes.

Re: Anyone else noticed this JTs BS?
 

BB is awful.

Re: Anyone else noticed this JTs BS?
 

Raise preflop. Don't 3 bet preflop. Don't raise the turn.

Re: Anyone else noticed this JTs BS?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Lately I've been hearing a lot of people in B&amp;M rooms saying "JTs makes the most money in poker." Its generally a retard, but lately I've heard people I otherwise respected spouting off this BS. Last night it was some douche college kid that I had a running conversation with, and I asked him wtf he was talking about it, and he gave some retarded explanation. I asked him if he meant "JTs can make the most straights" or something like that. He was pretty sure JTs makes the most money of any hand in poker. Anybody else heard this garbage?

[/ QUOTE ]

Im sure he said it makes the most nuts str8's. But dont talk to the fish.

[/ QUOTE ]

any str8 made with JT is the nut str8, this may have something to do with why everyone seems to be so in love with it.