A hand I really liked...
 

scrub to my left, jason_t to my right, bukkake two to my right. some number of limpers, bukkake checks his button option, jason_t does something and I check Jh 7h in the BB.

Flop is Th 6h 3c. Check, I bet, a caller or two, bukkake calls on the button, jason_t folds.

Turn is the Jd. I bet, callers fold, bukkake calls.

River is the 5s. I check and feel sexy. Yase?

Re: A hand I really liked...
 

I feel sexy just reading it.

Re: A hand I really liked...
 

Wow. I'm a little lost here. Could you shed some light on some things for me please?

Why bet the flop?

Ok, the turn is a perfect card, so why do we need to check the river with top pair to feel sexy? Is it because we won't get called by a worse J?

Re: A hand I really liked...
 

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why do we need to check the river with top pair to feel sexy? Is it because we won't get called by a worse J?

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He's check raising.

Re: A hand I really liked...
 

Does he check behind any hands he calls a bet with here? If so what is he betting with, what is he checking through and does he ever pay off the check/raise?

Re: A hand I really liked...
 

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why do we need to check the river with top pair to feel sexy? Is it because we won't get called by a worse J?

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He's check raising.

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Oh, word. Ok I get it. And knowing the other player, we're reasonably sure he'll bet, yes?

But what about the flop? Is it because no one likely has a piece of it that we can just bet out with nothing like this?

Re: A hand I really liked...
 

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why do we need to check the river with top pair to feel sexy? Is it because we won't get called by a worse J?

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He's check raising.

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Oh, word. Ok I get it. And knowing the other player, we're reasonably sure he'll bet, yes?

But what about the flop? Is it because no one likely has a piece of it that we can just bet out with nothing like this?

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flush draw

Re: A hand I really liked...
 

I like all the hand except river which i bet 95% of time. I like especially betting flop and _not_ c/ring or c/calling it with all these guys in a pot.

Re: A hand I really liked...
 

I don't see him paying off the checkraise with anything you beat, or even worse he 3-bets you. Seems like if your going to check to induce a bluff you should just call.

Re: A hand I really liked...
 

seems like he's calling with something weak in the event that you are being you. don't know how often he'll have a hand worth betting, though I think he'll probalby have to pay off if he does have to bet

Re: A hand I really liked...
 

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I don't see him paying off the checkraise with anything you beat, or even worse he 3-bets you. Seems like if your going to check to induce a bluff you should just call.

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That's what I thought. Why c/r?

Re: A hand I really liked...
 

Meh.

I don't like it.

He probably doesn't have that strong of a hand, is happy for the cheap showdown.

Seems like a real thin move to get him to put a bet in with a busted draw and/or weak Ten, 6 or med pocket pair.

I'd just bet and hope he wants to show down his poey hand vs. your medicore hand.

Sarge[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Re: A hand I really liked...
 

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seems like he's calling with something weak in the event that you are being you. don't know how often he'll have a hand worth betting, though I think he'll probalby have to pay off if he does have to bet

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I think the river check screams missed hearts and that he'll bet any hand he has. bukkake ain't D-U-M and there ain't a stereo in sight.

Re: A hand I really liked...
 

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why do we need to check the river with top pair to feel sexy? Is it because we won't get called by a worse J?

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He's check raising.

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Oh, word. Ok I get it. And knowing the other player, we're reasonably sure he'll bet, yes?

But what about the flop? Is it because no one likely has a piece of it that we can just bet out with nothing like this?

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flush draw

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Thanks. Shows how much I depend on the pretty little icons to notice these things.

Re: A hand I really liked...
 

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seems like he's calling with something weak in the event that you are being you. don't know how often he'll have a hand worth betting, though I think he'll probalby have to pay off if he does have to bet

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I think the river check screams missed hearts and that he'll bet any hand he has. bukkake ain't D-U-M and there ain't a stereo in sight.

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Why would he think you would call a bet with missed hearts?

Re: A hand I really liked...
 

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Why would he think you would call a bet with missed hearts?

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Re: A hand I really liked...
 

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seems like he's calling with something weak in the event that you are being you. don't know how often he'll have a hand worth betting, though I think he'll probalby have to pay off if he does have to bet

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I think the river check screams missed hearts and that he'll bet any hand he has. bukkake ain't D-U-M and there ain't a stereo in sight.

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Why would he think you would call a bet with missed hearts?

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This answer is obvious if you consider his range of hands.

Re: A hand I really liked...
 

I'd really like your take at reading his hand. I'm really bad at it. I guess in these situations I would put him on a made pair, or also a missed draw. Not sure about the likelihood of each, but I'm guessing you're saying he'll bet his missed draw to pick up the pot? Thanks.

Re: A hand I really liked...
 

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I'd really like your take at reading his hand. I'm really bad at it. I guess in these situations I would put him on a made pair, or also a missed draw. Not sure about the likelihood of each, but I'm guessing you're saying he'll bet his missed draw to pick up the pot? Thanks.

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I'll make it easier. It was a 3/6 game at Lucky Chances which means that the button posts 1 SB which is automatically raked. Thus, I said that bukkake "checks his option" on the button. So he has two cards. Once he calls twice on that board try to put him on a range of hands.

Re: A hand I really liked...
 

I have never really done this before, I'm just moving up from 1/2 and am used to thinking on this level. I will give it shot when I have some time tonight and I'd really appreciate if you'd tell me what you think. Thanks.

Re: A hand I really liked...
 

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scrub to my left, jason_t to my right, bukkake two to my right. some number of limpers, bukkake checks his button option, jason_t does something and I check Jh 7h in the BB.

Flop is Th 6h 3c. Check, I bet, a caller or two, bukkake calls on the button, jason_t folds.

Turn is the Jd. I bet, callers fold, bukkake calls.

River is the 5s. I check and feel sexy. Yase?

[/ QUOTE ]

I loved how you played this hand.

I loved how it turned out even more.

scrub

Re: A hand I really liked...
 

[ QUOTE ]
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scrub to my left, jason_t to my right, bukkake two to my right. some number of limpers, bukkake checks his button option, jason_t does something and I check Jh 7h in the BB.

Flop is Th 6h 3c. Check, I bet, a caller or two, bukkake calls on the button, jason_t folds.

Turn is the Jd. I bet, callers fold, bukkake calls.

River is the 5s. I check and feel sexy. Yase?

[/ QUOTE ]

I loved how you played this hand.

I loved how it turned out even more.

scrub

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I un-[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] you.

Re: A hand I really liked...
 

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I don't see him paying off the checkraise with anything you beat, or even worse he 3-bets you. Seems like if your going to check to induce a bluff you should just call.

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I agree. I can see c/calling the river or betting it. if you were playing seriously, i don't see bakku paying off a c/r with a weak pair.

or was your plan actually to 6-bet him and get him to fold the best hand? in that case, you rule.

Re: A hand I really liked...
 

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seems like he's calling with something weak in the event that you are being you. don't know how often he'll have a hand worth betting, though I think he'll probalby have to pay off if he does have to bet

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I think the river check screams missed hearts and that he'll bet any hand he has. bukkake ain't D-U-M and there ain't a stereo in sight.

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what do missed hearts have to do with value betting?

Re: A hand I really liked...
 

doesn't matter. he's got a crappy pair and has no reason to think that you'll pay off with a worse one. tell me what value there is in betting a pair of 3s or 6s

Re: A hand I really liked...
 

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doesn't matter. he's got a crappy pair and has no reason to think that you'll pay off with a worse one. tell me what value there is in betting a pair of 3s or 6s

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i thought dave was hoping that bakku would attempt a bluff, not hoping that he would value bet....

Re: A hand I really liked...
 

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doesn't matter. he's got a crappy pair and has no reason to think that you'll pay off with a worse one. tell me what value there is in betting a pair of 3s or 6s

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i thought dave was hoping that bakku would attempt a bluff, not hoping that he would value bet....

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bluff what? he overcalled the flop with nothing, then called the turn with nothing? the OESD has a pair of 5s now, probably not worth betting, smaller hearts absolutely raise the flop on the button with only one player between him and Dave. what's he bluffing?

does he have him pegged exactly on 98?

flop call, closing the action, decent sized pot, he can call with a pair. turn he bets again, but it could still be a bluff or semibluff. the only thing I could see him betting is maybe a weak 6 hoping Dave flopped bottom pair or something.

Re: A hand I really liked...
 

check-raising missed hearts would be a great move. they'll call a bet anyway, so there's no good in betting. given that you cehck, you can fold or raise, but raising could work because it's highly unlikely bakku has much of anything. I could see him doing one of those things where he bets, gets check-raised and instamucks because he's "obviously" beat.

Re: A hand I really liked...
 

He's not dumb. Which means he probably knows what your doing and checks behind unless you're behind. It seems to me from his perspective you'd fire the last barrel on the river with most missed draws enough that he has to call with a small pair here. If he has a hand that can't win it's possible he bets...but not as possible as if he were dumb and unaware of this play. No?

Re: A hand I really liked...
 

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smaller hearts absolutely raise the flop on the button with only one player between him and Dave.

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the flop action states "a caller or two," which is actually relevant here. with only 1 caller between him and dave, don't you think small hearts might go for jasont's overcall rather than a raise?

Re: A hand I really liked...
 

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smaller hearts absolutely raise the flop on the button with only one player between him and Dave.

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the flop action states "a caller or two," which is actually relevant here. with only 1 caller between him and dave, don't you think small hearts might go for jasont's overcall rather than a raise?

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nope, no one ever just calls with hearts there


also, while 98 makes some sense, it would be a really crappy flop call getting around 7-1 with iffy pair outs and a flush draw out

Re: A hand I really liked...
 

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check-raising missed hearts would be a great move. they'll call a bet anyway, so there's no good in betting. given that you cehck, you can fold or raise, but raising could work because it's highly unlikely bakku has much of anything. I could see him doing one of those things where he bets, gets check-raised and instamucks because he's "obviously" beat.

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was this a counterargument to my claim that bakku would not pay off a c/r, or an argument for it? i couldn't figure out what you were responding to, though i agree with what you say...

Re: A hand I really liked...
 

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He's not dumb. Which means he probably knows what your doing and checks behind unless you're behind. It seems to me from his perspective you'd fire the last barrel on the river with most missed draws enough that he has to call with a small pair here. If he has a hand that can't win it's possible he bets...but not as possible as if he were dumb and unaware of this play. No?

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maybe but I don't think he even needs to think about this. better hands are calling and worse hands are folding. a 6 could maybe find a bet.

Re: A hand I really liked...
 

neither. it popped into my head so I wrote it. if I were him I'd be paying off a c/r with any hand I bet with.

Re: A hand I really liked...
 

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nope, no one ever just calls with hearts there

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i do... and when i do it's usually against people who are aggressive enough to defend against a free card play, like dave.

your pot equity is about equal to the pot odds you are getting from 2 players calling your raise. i don't get why you think it's so unlikley?

Re: A hand I really liked...
 

he has some fold equity in there too

Re: A hand I really liked...
 

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I think the river check screams missed hearts and that he'll bet any hand he has. bukkake ain't D-U-M and there ain't a stereo in sight.

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why would he bet here unless he thinks you'll call with missed hearts? there's just no point.

Re: A hand I really liked...
 

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he has some fold equity in there too

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i'm finding you very cryptic today. are you saying that the reason (or another reason) to always raise the flop there is so that you can fold people out with bets on the turn or river?

Re: A hand I really liked...
 

Yeah. I agree Josh. I can see sooo many more hands here that I believe call a bet than hands that either value bet or bluff when checked to.

Re: A hand I really liked...
 

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he has some fold equity in there too

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i'm finding you very cryptic today. are you saying that the reason (or another reason) to always raise the flop there is so that you can fold people out with bets on the turn or river?

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two separate things. first I said that everyone raises hearts there. you don't, so not everyone, but I think it's safe to assume that hearts raise the flop most of the time. then I said another reason to raise the flop is because you might take the pot down unimproved. I never said anything about a free card. that depends on the turn card and action. but right now you can make a break-even raise for the minimal cost of getting jason to fold a hand he checked from EP but will call with, which is near none, with the advantage of giving you some leverage that might get you the pot.