Collusion???
 

What do you think...looks like it narrows the odds for a split 2 pair/fh draw?


PokerStars 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. UTG+2 posts a blind of $3.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 (poster) checks, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, CO calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, CO calls.

Flop: (13.33 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(6 players)</font>
UTG+1 checks, UTG+2 checks, MP1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 bets</font>, CO calls, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls.

Turn: (9.66 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(6 players)</font>
UTG+1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+2 bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 raises</font>, MP2 folds, CO folds, Hero folds, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 calls.

River: (13.66 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>

Final Pot: 13.66 BB

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
UTG+2 has 7d 3c (one pair, aces).
MP1 has Ks Qs (straight, ace high).
Outcome: MP1 wins 13.66 BB. </font>

Re: Collusion???
 

UTG+2 is all in on the turn? Looks pretty standard.

Re: Collusion???
 

raise flop

Re: Collusion???
 

UTG +2 is betting a diamond draw, MP1 is raising his straight. Are you new to poker or just stupid? Why in the world would anyone possibly think this is collusion. Worry about your game and stop making excuses for your losses.

Re: Collusion???
 

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UTG +2 is betting a diamond draw, MP1 is raising his straight. Are you new to poker or just stupid? Why in the world would anyone possibly think this is collusion. Worry about your game and stop making excuses for your losses.

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My sentiments too.

Re: Collusion???
 

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UTG +2 is betting a diamond draw, MP1 is raising his straight. Are you new to poker or just stupid? Why in the world would anyone possibly think this is collusion. Worry about your game and stop making excuses for your losses.

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My sentiments too.

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Let me see. I don't know the fish who would bet a 7-high flush draw into six people when drawing for a one-card flush. This person would have to hit the diamond draw and still have to hope to dodge any one of four diamonds with six opponents still to go. I don't think I'm stupid...this is just rational thinking.

Re: Collusion???
 

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UTG +2 is betting a diamond draw, MP1 is raising his straight. Are you new to poker or just stupid? Why in the world would anyone possibly think this is collusion. Worry about your game and stop making excuses for your losses.

[/ QUOTE ]

My sentiments too.

[/ QUOTE ]

Let me see. I don't know the fish who would bet a 7-high flush draw into six people when drawing for a one-card flush. This person would have to hit the diamond draw and still have to hope to dodge any one of four diamonds with six opponents still to go. I don't think I'm stupid...this is just rational thinking.

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You're playing 3/6. You expected world-class poker?

Re: Collusion???
 

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UTG +2 is betting a diamond draw, MP1 is raising his straight. Are you new to poker or just stupid? Why in the world would anyone possibly think this is collusion. Worry about your game and stop making excuses for your losses.

[/ QUOTE ]

My sentiments too.

[/ QUOTE ]

Let me see. I don't know the fish who would bet a 7-high flush draw into six people when drawing for a one-card flush. This person would have to hit the diamond draw and still have to hope to dodge any one of four diamonds with six opponents still to go. I don't think I'm stupid...this is just rational thinking.

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You're playing 3/6. You expected world-class poker?

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Let me respond to that with one question:

On the very first day that you ever played Texas Hold Em, would you have tried something that assinine? Would you?

Re: Collusion???
 

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UTG +2 is betting a diamond draw, MP1 is raising his straight. Are you new to poker or just stupid? Why in the world would anyone possibly think this is collusion. Worry about your game and stop making excuses for your losses.

[/ QUOTE ]

My sentiments too.

[/ QUOTE ]

Let me see. I don't know the fish who would bet a 7-high flush draw into six people when drawing for a one-card flush. This person would have to hit the diamond draw and still have to hope to dodge any one of four diamonds with six opponents still to go. I don't think I'm stupid...this is just rational thinking.

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You're playing 3/6. You expected world-class poker?

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Let me respond to that with one question:

On the very first day that you ever played Texas Hold Em, would you have tried something that assinine? Would you?

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First, its spelled "asinine."

Second, personally I wouldn't, but I don't doubt that there ARE people that would do that. Believe me, that junk happens to all of us. However, if you look back upon it, its hard not to chuckle, cuz these donkeys are the ones that are making us money in the long run. Disagree?

Re: Collusion???
 

asinine. one s. i know that it doesn't make sense. that's english.

i think the point that the other guys were making is that most people who play online make stupid plays, on their first day or after 10000 hands. don't give your opponents credit for being rational. most aren't.

Re: Collusion???
 

Thanks for the spelling correction. I usually pride myself on it. I don't disagree with you at all. However, is it outside the realm of possibility to say, "Hey, buddy, I need you to bet, so that I can raise and remove the odds for 2 pair to draw to a full house."

In this situation, you know that there is going to be a 2 pair out there with this many players and 4 cards in the playing zone. Is this not possible? If I were going to cheat with a partner, I would certainly do this here to protect a big pot.

Re: Collusion???
 

Before worrying about collusion, worry about how badly you butchered this hand.


Raise the flop. You very likely have the best hand, and there are 3 other players who you may just push out, or at least make them pay for staying.

Raising the flop will also likely change the action on the turn. You have the button for crying out loud, so there's a good chance you'll get a free card if need be. Further, even if UTG+2 bets the turn, your flop raise will proabably make MP2 think think twice about proceeding/raising with his 7-high flush draw.

When you're only facing one bet, getting better than 11:1 on the turn, you can profitably call with a 4-outer to a boat.




Adam

Re: Collusion???
 

again, you give to much credit to your opponents. sure, it's POSSIBLE that he's thinking:

"there is going to be a 2 pair out there with this many players and 4 cards in the playing zone"

it is just as possible, actually much more likely, that he is thinking:

"just one more diamond and i'll recover some of losses from earlier. come on baby, i'm due! i'm due!"

Re: Collusion???
 

Best of all, you would've suspected nothing had the river blanked.

Re: Collusion???
 

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks for the spelling correction. I usually pride myself on it. I don't disagree with you at all. However, is it outside the realm of possibility to say, "Hey, buddy, I need you to bet, so that I can raise and remove the odds for 2 pair to draw to a full house."

In this situation, you know that there is going to be a 2 pair out there with this many players and 4 cards in the playing zone. Is this not possible? If I were going to cheat with a partner, I would certainly do this here to protect a big pot.

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its possible, but i just don't find it too likely that two people (that know how to collude) are using their skills to pick off poor unsuspecting victims in the high-stakes 3/6 game.

Re: Collusion???
 

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Before worrying about collusion, worry about how badly you butchered this hand.


Raise the flop. You very likely have the best hand, and there are 3 other players who you may just push out, or at least make them pay for staying.

Raising the flop will also likely change the action on the turn. You have the button for crying out loud, so there's a good chance you'll get a free card if need be. Further, even if UTG+2 bets the turn, your flop raise will proabably make MP2 think think twice about proceeding/raising with his 7-high flush draw.

When you're only facing one bet, getting better than 11:1 on the turn, you can profitably call with a 4-outer to a boat.




Adam

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I agree. I may have butchered it in retrospect. I had the thought that with so many callers between me and the orignal bettor, that I would wait for the turn to raise. I wanted to see how the turn card changed the pot equity and then raise a safe card (fold to a diamond). That may have been an incorrect line in retrospect. I don't know, can I make a case for that rather unusual play in a large pot?

Re: Collusion???
 

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Thanks for the spelling correction. I usually pride myself on it. I don't disagree with you at all. However, is it outside the realm of possibility to say, "Hey, buddy, I need you to bet, so that I can raise and remove the odds for 2 pair to draw to a full house."

In this situation, you know that there is going to be a 2 pair out there with this many players and 4 cards in the playing zone. Is this not possible? If I were going to cheat with a partner, I would certainly do this here to protect a big pot.

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its possible, but i just don't find it too likely that two people (that know how to collude) are using their skills to pick off poor unsuspecting victims in the high-stakes 3/6 game.

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At least they are sophisticated enough to have one of them play trash hands so their collusion isn't completely obvious.

Re: Collusion???
 

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[ QUOTE ]
Thanks for the spelling correction. I usually pride myself on it. I don't disagree with you at all. However, is it outside the realm of possibility to say, "Hey, buddy, I need you to bet, so that I can raise and remove the odds for 2 pair to draw to a full house."

In this situation, you know that there is going to be a 2 pair out there with this many players and 4 cards in the playing zone. Is this not possible? If I were going to cheat with a partner, I would certainly do this here to protect a big pot.

[/ QUOTE ]
its possible, but i just don't find it too likely that two people (that know how to collude) are using their skills to pick off poor unsuspecting victims in the high-stakes 3/6 game.

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I've heard lots of people bragging at parties about colluding 3/6 all the time. Maybe that just drunken words, but I'm sure that its being tried somewhere. 90% of them probably end up losing because they don't know how to collude, but then there is that other 10%. They might start out colluding a low level until they work up enough juice for the higher stakes.

Re: Collusion???
 

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Best of all, you would've suspected nothing had the river blanked.

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Normally, I would agree with that, but in this situation, it wouldn't have mattered. I was finishing off a multitable session here and it was the last table open. I would have not been happy with it either way. I've turned someone in for pulling the plug all-in when it cost the cheater $100 (because of a 3rd player). He was so stupid that he admitted to pulling the plug in chat and asked me why I cared so much since it, in effect, was a $200 positive swing for me. I replied, "integrity." He was banned.

Re: Collusion???
 

I wouldn't worry about collusion on the basis of one questionable (or more likely just idiotic) play. If these two players repeatedly do something like this, you might have something to worry about.