We need a new word for \"gambling\"
 

My girlfriend likes to call poker "gambling". I like to think of it as "a skill game played for money".

When I use the word "gambling", I think of the house having an edge (like our national lottery in Canada where they only pay out 45% of what they bring in), or betting on completely random events (coin flips, a ball landing on 8 black).

Does anyone else differentiate between poker and "gambling"?

Re: We need a new wold for \"gambling\"
 

Whats a "wold"?

Re: We need a new wold for \"gambling\"
 

"Wold" is me accidentally typing the word "world" and deleting the wrong letter. Thanks for catching that.

Re: We need a new word for \"gambling\"
 

Your examples don't really prove your point. The house does have an edge in poker, as the house will win money on every pot with no opportunity for the player to get it back. Poker is also betting on random events (the outcome of the cards). Poker is both a game of gambling (read: luck) AND a game of skill.

Re: We need a new word for \"gambling\"
 

Poker is gambling. Why call it anything else? People who call poker gambling in a derogatory way dont understand what gambling really is. They just know that the house always wins, so you should stay away from gambling. Honestly, this is good advice. Lots of people lose at craps and lots of people lose at poker. Poker is probably worse because its easy to get fooled that you can win. Your girlfriend probably thinks you are going to lose lots of money at poker, and you probably will.

Re: We need a new word for \"gambling\"
 

...but poker has the skill element. Roulette, keno, slots, the lottery and betting which bird will fly off the fence first have nothing to do with skill.

Plus if you play without the house taking a cut...that part is rendered moot.

Re: We need a new word for \"gambling\"
 

Poker is gambling. Some forms of gambling do not allow you to make bets with a positive expectation, and some forms do. Poker, fortunately, is of the second variety.

Re: We need a new word for \"gambling\"
 

How about a new word for "girlfriend" instead?

Re: We need a new word for \"gambling\"
 

nh

Re: We need a new word for \"gambling\"
 

The problem is not with the word "gambling" but people's understanding of the word.

"Gambling" is bad.
"Gambling" will always cost you money.
"Gambling" is never a smart thing to do.

I would say that most people in America believe those three things (or at least hte last two).

Gambling is simply putting money on an event or series of events where the outcome is not guaranteed. It should be an umbrella term to cover +EV and -EV.

All casino games (craps, roullette, slots) are gambling but really really bad -EV gambles. Whereas blackjack can be a +EV game (if played VERY well) and poker can be a +EV game if played just ok and a HUUUUUGGGE +EV game if played very well.

Re: We need a new word for \"gambling\"
 

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Gambling is simply putting money on an event or series of events where the outcome is not guaranteed. It should be an umbrella term to cover +EV and -EV.

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So is "investing". My retirement account is essentially gambled money. I could lose it all (say if a plane hits a building or an electricity company decides to lie to the world a million times.) But it doesn't really fit in the same category as craps.

At the same time I would say me if Phil Ivey were to play me heads up for $100K, his money would be about as safe as mine is in my retirement account. So that's not really gambling.

We need a new word to describe these +EV situations.

Re: We need a new word for \"gambling\"
 

[ QUOTE ]
My girlfriend likes to call poker "gambling". I like to think of it as "a skill game played for money".

When I use the word "gambling", I think of the house having an edge (like our national lottery in Canada where they only pay out 45% of what they bring in), or betting on completely random events (coin flips, a ball landing on 8 black).

Does anyone else differentiate between poker and "gambling"?

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Playing within skill level and bankroll is working. Otherwise it's gambling.

Re: We need a new word for \"gambling\"
 

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nh

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Re: We need a new word for \"gambling\"
 

Gaming.

It doesn't really matter what you call it though. Once people find out you're playing poker, they equate it with gambling and it becomes bad in their minds.

Re: We need a new word for \"gambling\"
 

I like "gaming". Get rid of the "gamble" when it comes to poker.

Re: We need a new word for \"gambling\"
 

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I like "gaming". Get rid of the "gamble" when it comes to poker.

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Playing casino games is called "gaming". Have you never heard of the Neveda Gaming Commission?

Re: We need a new word for \"gambling\"
 

gaming is just gambling without the bling [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: We need a new word for \"gambling\"
 

Take a look at pg 19 in SSHE. Miller offers a good explanation as to why poker is gambling.

Re: We need a new word for \"gambling\"
 

Poker is gambling.

Whatever new euphemism you pick for it will eventually pick up the same connotations that "gambling" carries today.

Let's not suck the marrow out of our language.

Re: We need a new word for \"gambling\"
 

new word for gambling: gamb00l1ng
new word for girlfriend: owner of your soft spherical organs

Re: We need a new word for \"gambling\"
 

It's in the mail. Amazon should have it here on Wednesday.

Re: We need a new word for \"gambling\"
 

Hey, if the Inuit people can have a dozen or so words that mean "snow"...then we can have another word for gambling.

A dozen for "snow"...that's marrow baby.

Re: We need a new word for \"gambling\"
 

My organs are more ovoid than spherical

Re: We need a new word for \"gambling\"
 

Last week, when I held KK preflop, I gambled with a raise. Flop came xx7, and again, I gambled with a bet. Turn was nothing to worry about, so I gambled and bet. River was a 7 and once again, I gambled with a bet and got raised, so I called...

Turns out that a guy with T7o was gambling as well...and he hit trips on the river....

...that's gambling...

Re: We need a new word for \"gambling\"
 

Dear ChuckyB,

(I have read most of the replies to your post, and without reading them all, I'll express my thoughts.) I understand your point or feelings about poker being labeled as gambling. I feel what you were really trying to express was: "We need a new word for describing what people are doing when they play poker for real money." My answer is....

Over the long pull; those that win money are winners, and the rest are losers of money. This a tautological definition (true by its form alone), but it would serve your purpose with respect to your friend. The problem is that most people don't think or feel the way you, me, and many others "hopefully apparently winning poker players" think. For example, years ago I worked with a bible belt christian who felt that all gambling for money (or whatever) was evil and that poker was gambling. The guy will always consider poker an evil act of gambling -- he will never change. The funny thing was that this same gentleman felt that it was OK to play the stock market even though there is an element of chance while trying to make money in the market (and I understand his feelings).

ChuckyB, I appreciate the various replies to you post -- mostly because the replies express the various ways people think about the nature of poker. I guess labeling poker as gambling is the concise and easy way to describe what we are doing when we play poker....

Re: We need a new word for \"gambling\"
 

Investing is a good example. #1, your retirement money may not be as safe as you think it is. #2, poker is gambling the way your gf thinks of it for 90% of the people who play. investing is gambling for a large # of investors also. they are essentially the same thing. a good poker play is just a wise investor.

Re: We need a new word for \"gambling\"
 

Gaming
Playing
disporting
fluttering
larking
Gamboling

Maybe that last one wouldn't work so well.

Re: We need a new word for \"gambling\"
 

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ChuckyB, I appreciate the various replies to you post -- mostly because the replies express the various ways people think about the nature of poker. I guess labeling poker as gambling is the concise and easy way to describe what we are doing when we play poker....


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Carl,

It has nothing at all to do with how people think, it has everything to do with the actual definition of the word gambling. If you do not understand that you are in fact gambling when you play poker you are simply fooling yourself.

Re: We need a new word for \"gambling\"
 

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Gambling is simply putting money on an event or series of events where the outcome is not guaranteed. It should be an umbrella term to cover +EV and -EV.

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So is "investing". My retirement account is essentially gambled money. I could lose it all (say if a plane hits a building or an electricity company decides to lie to the world a million times.) But it doesn't really fit in the same category as craps.

At the same time I would say me if Phil Ivey were to play me heads up for $100K, his money would be about as safe as mine is in my retirement account. So that's not really gambling.

We need a new word to describe these +EV situations.

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You make a interesting point and I understand where you are coming from. The nature of gambling comes from not only chance but the fact that money is wagered and one person wins and one person loses. Investing in stocks is win-win or lose-lose depending on how well the company is doing. while gambling is win-lose, one wins one loses and there are odds that determine your expected return.

Also, are you saying it's impossible for you to go all in preflop with KK while phil ivy has AA and you draw out on him, you wouldn't consider this possiblity as gambling? although unlikely, it would be possible for this to happen 10 times in a row, but this isn't gambling?

Simply put, gambling is a game of chance.

Re: We need a new word for \"gambling\"
 

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Hey, if the Inuit people can have a dozen or so words that mean "snow"...then we can have another word for gambling.

A dozen for "snow"...that's marrow baby.

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Yeah, but this thread is mostly about replacing "gambling" with a less precise word like "gaming."

I don't know about you, but I want my opponents to approach the game with a gambling attitude, thinking it's mostly just luck.

Call a spade a spade. Poker is gambling.

Re: We need a new word for \"gambling\"
 

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...but poker has the skill element. Roulette, keno, slots, the lottery and betting which bird will fly off the fence first have nothing to do with skill.

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Actually betting on which bird will fly off the fence first may have an element of skill. Someone could have +EV in the long run by studying the species of birds, their gender, wind conditions, and habits.

But here is a story.

A bunch of friends and I have this game were we all get 2 cards face down and bet on who thinks they will have the best hand after 5 cards are dealt in the middle for all of us to share.
Most of my friends didn't think their cards were good but I (JJ) and this other guy (??) liked what we saw so he bet me $10 that he would win and I accepted his bet.
After flipping over 3 cards J T 4 he bet me again that he would have the best hand at the end, I disagreed and offered to increase the wager. He accepted.
We turned over one more card 6 and he finally snapped. He was so sure his hand would be the best that he bet me all the money he had in front of him, I accepted his offer.
The final card was a T. We showed our cards and he had K-K-T-T-J vs. my J-J-J-T-T so I won the wager. We continued playing this game all night long. Maybe I should find a name for this game of chance and skill?

Re: We need a new word for \"gambling\"
 

How about "kerfilozlinkiting". It's new, anyway. Sounds like German when said out loud [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Re: We need a new word for \"gambling\"
 

I did like "Gambooling"...whoever suggested that one. It goes well with the "...but they were sooted!" excuse.

Re: We need a new word for \"gambling\"
 

What's wrong with "playing cards".

I like telling people I play cards. It's pretty vague and much softer than saying I gamble. I don't have to explain myself as often because people tend to draw their own conclusions.

Re: We need a new word for \"gambling\"
 

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he had K-K-T-T-J vs. my J-J-J-T-T so I won the wager

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nh

Re: We need a new word for \"gambling\"
 

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My girlfriend likes to call poker "gambling". I like to think of it as "a skill game played for money".

When I use the word "gambling", I think of the house having an edge (like our national lottery in Canada where they only pay out 45% of what they bring in), or betting on completely random events (coin flips, a ball landing on 8 black).

Does anyone else differentiate between poker and "gambling"?

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Calling something by a different name doesn't change it's definition, no matter how much sugar you coat it with.

See also: George Carlin.


Poker is gambling. Investing is gambling. Any time you take a risk for potential gain is gambling. In fact, let's turn to Google for the definition:

Gambling (or betting) is any behavior involving the risk of money or valuables on the outcome of a game, contest, or other event in which the outcome of that activity is partially or totally dependent upon chance or on one's ability to do something.

Also:

The act of playing for stakes in the hope of winning (including the payment of a price for a chance to win a prize); "his gambling cost him a fortune"; "there was heavy play at the blackjack table"

Gambling just so happens to be the English word we happen to use when we talk about this. If you want to make up a new word, go ahead. I like new words. Just realize that it means the same exact thing, and that it will carry the very same negative connotations that gambling does.

Get off your high horse
 

First of all, only people who are consitent winners over years can call it a skill game because they are proven winners. However the fact is, everyone is gambling when they play poker. Just becuase you might have an edge doesn't mean yo uarne't gambling. Get over yourself you aren't even a winning player that's re\i\diculous. plus it's more fun to gamble

Re: We need a new word for \"gambling\"
 

If you're truly a winning player at a cardroom you could call it "investing" or "business". Of course, to be a winning player, you have to overcome annual "rent" of $10,000 to $40,000. This is over the long haul.

Short term it is definitely gambling.

Re: We need a new word for \"gambling\"
 

"lick the cube"

Re: We need a new word for \"gambling\"
 

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Svar till:</font><hr />
How about "kerfilozlinkiting". It's new, anyway. Sounds like German when said out loud [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

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I love posts like this. I have a feeling that one of my dreams tonight will be about about agitated nazi officers crying the word "kerfilozlinkiting".