I think I played it perfectly
 

Only read I have on opponent is PT stats. It rated him as a money bag so tight (14% VPIP) agressive (PFR 11%, AF 3). I put him on overcards...how did I do?

PokerRoom 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG+2 with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">5 folds</font>, Hero calls.

Flop: (6.50 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 bets</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: (3.75 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 bets</font>, Hero calls.

River: (4.75 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP2 calls.

Final Pot: 6.75 BB

Re: I think I played it perfectly
 

I'll admit to getting a little teary eyed at the sight of a well played WA/WB. :sniff:

Re: I think I played it perfectly
 

Why do you put him on overcards? Would he check AA-99? Will he fold AK on the river? Will he call with KQ?

I'm not sure why you played this perfectly.

Re: I think I played it perfectly
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'll admit to getting a little teary eyed at the sight of a well played WA/WB. :sniff:

[/ QUOTE ]

Am I missing something? Without an ace flopping, we're way behind far more than we're way ahead.

Re: I think I played it perfectly
 

Which overcards did you put him on that you are ahead of (especially at the river?)

Re: I think I played it perfectly
 

Well he didn't raise first in. He reraised you. He is a moneybag so that means he at least has some preflop standards. I think he has a hand better than yours. I can't understand the river bet. I don't see him folding. I think you are wasting money here in a small pot. I fold the turn.

Re: I think I played it perfectly
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'll admit to getting a little teary eyed at the sight of a well played WA/WB. :sniff:

[/ QUOTE ]
How many hands are we way ahead of, and how many are we way behind? I think we're behind many more than we're ahead of.

Re: I think I played it perfectly
 

I don't know if you're joking or not, but this is not wa/wb.

c/c c/c bet isn't the right line for all wa/wb either.

Edit: to the op, fold the turn.

Re: I think I played it perfectly
 

He took a long time to 3-bet me preflop. This could mean a lotta things but I guessed that he had AK or AQ or something and was thinking if it was good enough to 3-bet or not. I think if he had something like AA or KK he woulda raised it without a second thought. I'd fold AK on the river if I were him (not sure if that's right or wrong), that's why I played it that way.

Re: I think I played it perfectly
 

He 3-bet you... from a tight-aggressive player that generally means TT-AA and AK. So there's really very few hands you'd be beating. If I were him, I wouldn't fold this river either. What's he afraid of?

I guess he could figure you're representing AJ of spades or hearts here, but that's about it. You certainly aren't representing an overpair.

I know a lot of people do this... they automatically assume their PFR opponent has big cards simply because big cards are dealt more often than pocket pairs. That justifies calling down with bottom pair as long as Q-A doesn't show up on the flop.

I think this play was a waste of money, especially at small stakes hold'em. But that's just my opinion...

Re: I think I played it perfectly
 

He could have been looking up your stats, playing a juicy hand at another table or washing his hands after taking a leak. Don't put much into the time people take.

Re: I think I played it perfectly
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'll admit to getting a little teary eyed at the sight of a well played WA/WB. :sniff:

[/ QUOTE ]
How many hands are we way ahead of, and how many are we way behind? I think we're behind many more than we're ahead of.

[/ QUOTE ]
Oh I didn't say we were going to win the hand. It was just a well played WA/WB. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Sorry, it was a lot funnier in my head before I posted it.

Re: I think I played it perfectly
 

If I were him with AK and the hand played the same way to the river, should I call this river bet?

Re: I think I played it perfectly
 

[ QUOTE ]
If I were him with AK and the hand played the same way to the river, should I call this river bet?

[/ QUOTE ]

Depends on the opponent.

Re: I think I played it perfectly
 

Read-dependant, but for the most part... yeah, I think this is an easy A-high call down. The river-bet didn't match almost any hand he'd be playing except AJ of spades or hearts. That or T9... but it's rare enough for someone to EP raise with T9. Add to that you didn't even take a stab with a semi-bluff with an OESD.

I think this is an easy call-down.

Re: I think I played it perfectly
 

[ QUOTE ]
He took a long time to 3-bet me preflop. This could mean a lotta things but I guessed that he had AK or AQ or something and was thinking if it was good enough to 3-bet or not. I think if he had something like AA or KK he woulda raised it without a second thought. I'd fold AK on the river if I were him (not sure if that's right or wrong), that's why I played it that way.

[/ QUOTE ]
I think you need to think this through more carefully. There are plenty more 3-betting hands here than AK or AQ. In fact, I think a PP is much more likely than AQ given the player you're describing.

[ QUOTE ]
If I were him with AK and the hand played the same way to the river, should I call this river bet?

[/ QUOTE ]
No, but that doesn't make your play correct.

Re: I think I played it perfectly
 

You put him on overcards... what do you think his 3-betting range is? Given his 11% PFR, I'll take that to mean 99+/AQ+ which means that right now, you're ahead of nothing and chopping with the worst of his range. Check/fold that turn.

I'm guessing from your tone that you won the hand and picked him off with AJ or KQ. Congratulations on winning but you played it far from perfect.

Re: I think I played it perfectly
 

Yes, because you should have folded AJ already and you don't have T9, and are more likely to be betting a busted flush draw with your overs that I beat.

Re: I think I played it perfectly
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If I were him with AK and the hand played the same way to the river, should I call this river bet?

[/ QUOTE ]

Depends on the opponent.

[/ QUOTE ]
Depends on what? No copout answers allowed.

Re: I think I played it perfectly
 

[ QUOTE ]
Yes, because you should have folded AJ already and you don't have T9, and are more likely to be betting a busted flush draw with your overs that I beat.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: I think I played it perfectly
 

Nah I didn't win. He had AK.

After seeing all the replies...I guess I didn't play this perfectly at all. It's good for me to realize I'm wrong sometimes though...when this hand happens again I'll save money on it.

Re: I think I played it perfectly
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If I were him with AK and the hand played the same way to the river, should I call this river bet?

[/ QUOTE ]

Depends on the opponent.

[/ QUOTE ]
Depends on what? No copout answers allowed.

[/ QUOTE ]
So I guess "it depends" is a better answer for the river donk bet. I know I certainly will vs. the OP! Against a typical LPP, no way. Against a known tricky player, I think we can call here to pick off the busted draw bluff.

Re: I think I played it perfectly
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If I were him with AK and the hand played the same way to the river, should I call this river bet?

[/ QUOTE ]

Depends on the opponent.

[/ QUOTE ]
Depends on what? No copout answers allowed.

[/ QUOTE ]

SOrry ;(

Well if your opponent is passive you should definetly fold with just A-high.
But if you have a read that he's trying to play tricks on you and try to make you fold, then a call might be fine.

Re: I think I played it perfectly
 

fold the flop.

Re: I think I played it perfectly
 

[ QUOTE ]
fold the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree, you are usually in a bad position here, drawing thin, and not really knowing where you stand when you do hit a Q or A.
if you do call the flop you need to fold the turn

Re: I think I played it perfectly
 

[ QUOTE ]
You put him on overcards... what do you think his 3-betting range is? Given his 11% PFR, I'll take that to mean 99+/AQ+ which means that right now, you're ahead of nothing and chopping with the worst of his range. Check/fold that turn.

I'm guessing from your tone that you won the hand and picked him off with AJ or KQ. Congratulations on winning but you played it far from perfect.

[/ QUOTE ]

Just a nitpick but the only hand the OP was beating was KQ since the J fell on the river. As an added note, I really HATE getting 3 bet when I raise with AQo. I almost want to just chuck 'em preflop.

Re: I think I played it perfectly
 

I think you played it terribly.

Re: I think I played it perfectly
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think you played it terribly.

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this is the second post of yours that has wasted forum space. post something helpful or don't post.

Re: I think I played it perfectly
 

Guy has to be a real maniac for me to try this line.

Re: I think I played it perfectly
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'll admit to getting a little teary eyed at the sight of a well played WA/WB. :sniff:

[/ QUOTE ]

Am I missing something? Without a queen flopping, we're way behind far more than we're way ahead.

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP.

We were 3-bet by a TAG. What the hell do we think he has, K7s?

Re: I think I played it perfectly
 

[ QUOTE ]
Sorry, it was a lot funnier in my head before I posted it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Word.

Re: I think I played it perfectly
 

[ QUOTE ]
He could have been looking up your stats, playing a juicy hand at another table or washing his hands after taking a leak. Don't put much into the time people take.

[/ QUOTE ]

Or, *gasp*, his connection might be slow. It IS the Internet, after all.

Re: I think I played it perfectly
 

[ QUOTE ]
He 3-bet you... from a tight-aggressive player that generally means TT-AA and AK.

[/ QUOTE ]

14 VPIP? A preflop 3-bet means QQ/KK/AA/AKs.

Re: I think I played it perfectly
 

The problem with your line is that a guy who 3-bets you pf and has TAG numbers will take his entire range of hands to showdown a huge % of the time unless you do somethinf far trickier than donking the river. Most tags will either raise your river bet or cautiously call with everything they'll three bet pf, including AK.

Basically when he 3-bets you pf you need to hit the flop or get out of the hand unless you think you can make a play for the pot. The problem is that you have no reason to believe he has exactly AK as opposed to all the big pocket pairs so if you make a move, like C/Ring the flop and leading the turn or C/Ring the turn and leading the river you risk a lot on the chance that he has exactly AK.

I check fold this flop.

Re: I think I played it perfectly
 

I feel the same way. If I don't hit an amazing flop with my AQ, I dump them on the flop to the PF 3-better. There really are very few cases I stick around...

1) I have a gutshot straight draw
2) I hit a Q (then I can at least beat JJ and AK)
3) I have a flush draw

Even when I hit the Q, I'm not happy against the 3-better, so I'd MUCH prefer the straight/flush draw. If I hit two Qs on the other hand...

Re: I think I played it perfectly
 

I have to say this was bad. Not like banging B. Arthur bad, but bad like "I don't want to tell my friends about that one"
Lead the flop. fold to a raise because I doubt you're ahead here, and even a Q might not be good here. No reason not to put him on KK as a possibility, had no position to tell.
Diddo X 2 on the turn.
Vomiting plastic on the river.

You put him on over cards. Like what AK?

Re: I think I played it perfectly
 

Without reading the rest of this thread yet so I can try and throw in my unbiased opinion, here it is.

I think this was played badly. Based on your stats of him, theres no way he is going to 3 bet you PF with anything less then QQ...I would put him anywhere from QQ-AA or AKs and possibly AKo from his PF action.

Betting the flop for him is just a continuation bet, your call there I think is marginal but not horrible if you feel he isnt holding a big PP.

The turn is where I fold, he fires again and we still have nothing. The range of hands that he can have with his stats pretty much almost guarantees we are behind here regardless.

The river pretty much gives me his hand exactly. You bet when a J came out, trying to represent AJ basically. Had he been holding QQ, KK or AA he would have raised your ass there. The fact that he just called tells me he is afraid of AJ which means the only hand he could possibly be holding is AKs or AKo.

Will read the thread to see if the results are posted and if I analyzed it right.


Edit : Yay my read was right. There may be some hope for my pathetically horrible poker playing ass.

Re: I think I played it perfectly
 

[ QUOTE ]
I have to say this was bad. Not like banging B. Arthur bad, but bad like "I don't want to tell my friends about that one"
Lead the flop. fold to a raise because I doubt you're ahead here, and even a Q might not be good here. No reason not to put him on KK as a possibility, had no position to tell.
Diddo X 2 on the turn.
Vomiting plastic on the river.

You put him on over cards. Like what AK?

[/ QUOTE ]

Bea Arthur
Ditto

Sorry, I just woke up. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Re: I think I played it perfectly
 

You played it very poorly. He probably has a pocket pair. By the way, what overcard hands are you beating that he would have? You are either dominated by AK or beaten by a pair. Fold flop, you have no backdoor draws to save you.

Re: I think I played it perfectly
 

You haven't seen him wait to raise to raise instantly either. You can't make these assumptions without previous instances. Since you haven't seen his cards when he's waited to raise or raised instantly, you can't draw any information from the time he took.