I Hate Games Where Everyone Limps Preflop
 

Does anyone else feel the same way? I find them frustrating. For some reason, it annoys me when I am the only I can't tell where I am at when some people limp with QQ or KK after at least one other player has already limped in.

I seem to do much better in games where almost every pot is opened with a raise that is more than the minimum. I'm winning in those sorts of games. I think I might actually be losing in the limp-fests. I think it has something to do with smaller pots that aren't worth stealing and can't be stolen anyways because it is almost always multiway and how my mind can't handle games where proper strategy might be to do a lot of limping and folding when you don't hit.

Are limp-fests the kind of game that I should just skip because I don't enjoy playing in them or are they profitable enough that I should learn to tolerate them?

Re: I Hate Games Where Everyone Limps Preflop
 

Perhaps you're not being aggressive enough for these games. With people mostly limping preflop you should be raising a larger variety of hands than you would at a typical LAG game. I enjoy the Limp-fests because I can basically walk all over the tables with aggression. You either need to adjust your style to the table, or find a table that fits your style better. You'll make more money adjusting your style... but it's up to you.

Re: I Hate Games Where Everyone Limps Preflop
 

If you really don't enjoy those games, you shouldn't play them.
However, if you don't enjoy them just because your style doesn't work well in those games, I think you should learn how to adjust your play - that's a key-skill.

Myself, I love those games! Most people at this level who limp with their big hands aren't able to let go of them, which surely makes for some monster pots.

Re: I Hate Games Where Everyone Limps Preflop
 

Can see your point, but I love these games. You can run over them and it doesnt take a huge adjustment as far as hand reading goes. Feeling out flops will be a little fuzzier but not impossible.

If you really dislike them, I say avoid them. There's money to be made in aggro games as well.

Re: I Hate Games Where Everyone Limps Preflop
 

When there is a lot of limping, there is a lot of play on later streets. In games where there is a lot of preflop raising and reraising, somebody's all-in on the flop most of the time and you don't have to play poker on the turn and river. Games with lots of limping should be very profitable for a skilled player as they emphasize post-flop play.

Re: I Hate Games Where Everyone Limps Preflop
 

The general philosophy I take in limp-fests is that my big pocket pairs are nearly useless and that less-than-stellar hands like suited connectors go up in value.

Still getting used to raising with hands like 89s. It just doesn't feel right to me.

Re: I Hate Games Where Everyone Limps Preflop
 

Ghazban hit it on the head-- post-flop play is critical in NL games. I've been playing NL ring for about a year and that is an area that I have improved on and need to keep working on. It is fairly easy to have & maintain starting hand discipline (when to call/fold/raise) depending on position. Ability to evaluate where you stand after 3 cards are flopped is critical.

In games where stacks are fairly deep, a "limp-fest" can allow you to get in cheaply and win someone's stack. Not as valuable if limping for $5 when everyone's stack is $70 to $100 in a $100 max NL game (B&M).

Playing your hand post-flop does become a little more difficult when facing 5 opponents instead of 1 or 2.

Re: I Hate Games Where Everyone Limps Preflop
 

I keep looking at HPFAP p165 (21st century edition) and read

[ QUOTE ]

If you ever saw a good no limit player against weak players, you will find that he is constantly limping in. He is playing about 1/3 of the hands and limping with almost all of them. He's giving up a little bit before the flop because he can outplay them later.


[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe Sklansky and Malmuth's contention isn't applicable to max buy in games?

It may sound strange, but I feel more comfortable raising a single early position raiser with 89s than I do six limpers when I am on the button.

Re: I Hate Games Where Everyone Limps Preflop
 

Who are you people? Who doesn't like games full of loose, passive players?

Re: I Hate Games Where Everyone Limps Preflop
 

I love this kind of games.
Where can I find them?

Re: I Hate Games Where Everyone Limps Preflop
 

u know that that book is for limit right?
if its limits... jus plya ur connectors wiht lots of limpers..
if its NL. oh man htats a juicy table. hahah FREE MONEY!!

Re: I Hate Games Where Everyone Limps Preflop
 

[ QUOTE ]
I keep looking at HPFAP p165 (21st century edition) and read

[ QUOTE ]

If you ever saw a good no limit player against weak players, you will find that he is constantly limping in. He is playing about 1/3 of the hands and limping with almost all of them. He's giving up a little bit before the flop because he can outplay them later.


[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe Sklansky and Malmuth's contention isn't applicable to max buy in games?

It may sound strange, but I feel more comfortable raising a single early position raiser with 89s than I do six limpers when I am on the button.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why don't you limp your 89s, flop the nuts, and take down two stacks?

If I could find a game where I could limp into every pot I would be in heaven.

Try playing play money, you can limp into every pot and learn how to play post flop. Fun stuff, it's what I do when I'm really drunk and don't want to go to bed.

Re: I Hate Games Where Everyone Limps Preflop
 

[ QUOTE ]
u know that that book is for limit right?
if its limits... jus plya ur connectors wiht lots of limpers..
if its NL. oh man htats a juicy table. hahah FREE MONEY!!

[/ QUOTE ]

You know the passage he quoted was about no limit right?

Re: I Hate Games Where Everyone Limps Preflop
 

touche..

Re: I Hate Games Where Everyone Limps Preflop
 

[ QUOTE ]
Who are you people? Who doesn't like games full of loose, passive players?

[/ QUOTE ]

word to this guy's post

I just wish party didn't hide the "% of players seeing the flop" statistic so I could find more of them. Once you learn how to win at these it's so easy

Re: I Hate Games Where Everyone Limps Preflop
 

Ghazban and several others nailed the answer to this. What's not to like about a game like this? Just limp along with them with all kinds of hands that can flop big and bust 'em when you hit.

My new prayer:

Oh Lord please give me more tables full of loose-passive weakies who love to limp their AA & KK after 3 limpers and then hold onto them with a death grip when I flop 2-pair with my 83o in the SB. If you do, I promise to never use your name in vain again when some donk calls my 3-bet w/AA and hits a TT2 flop to his ATo.

[img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

Re: I Hate Games Where Everyone Limps Preflop
 

yes and alwyas make note of players who
"never bet their aces because a pair rarely wins at these tables where 'young kids' paly any 2 cards"
oh man. i loved that guy.

Re: I Hate Games Where Everyone Limps Preflop
 

What you're describing is every poker players wet dream, a table full of loose-passives(or tight-passives for that matter). These people are by definition who you want to be stealing from. People who limp big pairs should be immediately added to your buddy list, they can very rarely get away post-flop. BTW where do you find these tables?

Re: I Hate Games Where Everyone Limps Preflop
 

Often in home games.

Re: I Hate Games Where Everyone Limps Preflop
 

[ QUOTE ]
Ghazban and several others nailed the answer to this. What's not to like about a game like this? Just limp along with them with all kinds of hands that can flop big and bust 'em when you hit.

My new prayer:

Oh Lord please give me more tables full of loose-passive weakies who love to limp their AA & KK after 3 limpers and then hold onto them with a death grip when I flop 2-pair with my 83o in the SB. If you do, I promise to never use your name in vain again when some donk calls my 3-bet w/AA and hits a TT2 flop to his ATo.

[img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm describing a game where they don't hang onto overpairs or TPTK with a death grip and are capable of folding those hands. No one stacks off with anything worse than two pair unless they are trying to protect against a draw or have already committed a good percentage of their stack to the pot, and they will sometimes lay down two pair to a check-raise, but I can't bluff players off of too many pots because they are always multiway and a lot of people slowplay (but they slowplay inappropriately, as with a set on a draw-heavy flop).

These are games filled with what they call nut peddlers, right? They seem pretty pointless to me and I still can't see how it can be anywhere near as profitable as a loose aggressive game for a skilled player (but might be better for players whose leaks are more exposed in different sorts of games, and maybe my own leaks are more exposed in these games).