Upping my preflop raise %
 

I have about an 8k sample size of hands since I finished reading SSHE for the third time, and feeling like I fully understand all of its concepts. I make my preflop limp/raise decisions based on that spreadsheet based on the SSHE charts that some 2+2'er made a while back.

At about 5k hands I noticed my PFR% was at about 6.75%, and it fluctuates +/- .5%. I have read in the forums a few times where people posted their 10k hand summaries, with PFR% of 9 or 10%, and they got replies saying they need to up that percentage a little bit.

So I am obviously too passive preflop, and I tried making adjustments to up that percentage a bit. I started raising things like KTo, KJo, QJo, and a few others from later position with 1 or 2 callers for isolation purposes. I have also started raising pretty much anything worth limping on from late position with no callers to attempt to steal the blinds (not so easy at .5/$1). I have also done things like raise suited connectors, or anything suited worth limping on from late position with many callers, to up the pot size if I hit a draw. All these actions have brought my PFR% to about 7.5% +/-.5, But I still feel like that is too low, and I'm sure the general consensus will be the same.

How can I go about raising my PFR%? What other changes should I make to the SSHE charts to up my raise percentage closer to 10%? I also want to point out that I am able to play more hands comfortably postflop, and feel like I am pretty competent with a 3.25 BB/100 winrate over 8k hands.

Thanks

Re: Upping my preflop raise %
 

Start raising hands like KJs, AJo, ATs and 99 from anywhere on the table. I believe SSHE has you calling with those hands a lot. Time to fix that. Raise first in with nearly anything you want to play from the cutoff or button. Those two things alone will bump your PFR by 2.5%. The rest comes from isolation raises with a read (don't blindly raise hands like KTo, you need a read).

Woohoo, 700th post!

Re: Upping my preflop raise %
 

How much time do you spend on table selection? With a nice juicy table, I find a lot more places to raise preflop and this in turned raised mine (from about 7.5% to 9) because I wasn't using much table selection before that. I also found out that it pays to grow a pair when you have a hand and throw in a 3 bet against a very loose preflop opponent as opposed to passively calling.

Re: Upping my preflop raise %
 

How do you guys not have PFR under 9? i can't figure it out?

Pax offered good advice, in addtion, I'd like to add a few things:

1 - Isolate more. got a MP-LP open limper with a high VPIP? Raise and isolate that mother

2 - steal more. folded to you in LP, the further back, and tighter the blinds, the lower your requirements to steal.

3 - open raise. connected to point #2. For just about all hands, except lower PP's and suited connectors, playing them should be a raise or fold decision, even while in EP

Re: Upping my preflop raise %
 

Value raise big or connected suited hands after lots of limpers, and steal a lot more. However, at $.25/.50-$1/2, don't get carried away with this last part, especially if you're sitting to the right of some opponents with 40% VP$IPs.

Re: Upping my preflop raise %
 

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3 - open raise. connected to point #2. For just about all hands, except lower PP's and suited connectors, playing them should be a raise or fold decision, even while in EP

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Do you open-limp small PP's and suited connectors in middle to late position?

Re: Upping my preflop raise %
 

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Value raise big or connected suited hands after lots of limpers

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This is probably my favorite play in all of hold em. My eyes light up when I have 87s on the button and everyone loses their mind and there's like 5 limpers to me with the blinds left to act. That's a raise all day every day. Not because I want to build the pot and tie myself to it, and not because of an equity edge, but because my opponents tend to view folding as an art, regardless of pot size, and I'll get their money in the pot while I can. Build that pot, baby.

Re: Upping my preflop raise %
 

It is tougher to have a high PFR% in a game like .50/1 because you will so rarely be presented with a true blind steal situation. In other words, since so many of your opponents are limping ahead of you with various suited crap & ace/rag combos, you are going to be presented with far fewer opportunities to openraise from the CO or Button with mediocre hands like your KTo, A7s, and similar holdings. The solution is not to force situations where you're raising preflop, but rather to keep playing smart poker based on the table conditions.

As you get up to higher limits, you'll find that your PFR% will largely take care of itself as you are increasingly forced to play on relatively tight tables. For example, I average just over 10% on 2/4 & 3/6 full, and I will very rarely raise in a lot of the situations you mentioned; but because it's folded to me in LP far more often, I'm able to openraise with an even wider range of hands than what you listed. My PFR% in 6max games is over 16%.

You should never try to change your game just to make your statistics line up with the accepted norm. It's vitally important to understand not only what you are trying to accomplish but why--raising more often will not help your win rate nearly as much as raising in more of the right situations will, and it's very likely that you just aren't being presented with enough of those situations in the .50/1 game.

Re: Upping my preflop raise %
 

I disagree on 87 and I think you're contradicting yourself at least a few times in that post.

Re: Upping my preflop raise %
 

If this is true...

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I finished reading SSHE for the third time, and feeling like I fully understand all of its concepts.

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...then I don't see how this can be...

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I make my preflop limp/raise decisions based on that spreadsheet based on the SSHE charts that some 2+2'er made a while back.

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As for this...

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So I am obviously too passive preflop,

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...if you're not uncomfortable with the way you're playing, and you're not losing, then I don't see how this is "obvious." If, for instance, by playing more aggressively before the flop you find yourself compelled to continue with a hand that's been ruined by the flop, then you definitely should not be more aggressive preflop.

Finally, as for this...

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How can I go about raising my PFR%?

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...try raising more hands before the flop is dealt. Focus your complete understanding of SSHE concepts to divine when the table conditions and the cards in your hand dictate that you either want more money in the pot before any community cards are dealt, or that you want to apply pressure to your opponents by requiring that they put more than one bet in before any community cards are dealt.

Re: Upping my preflop raise %
 

I have a question for you all. Why do the people in this forum recommend preflop raising so much more than is suggested in SSHE? Is this because you all just generally disagree with the book, or because the book is written more for live games and the additional raising fits better with online ones?

And, if the latter is true, can someone tell me >why< more preflop raising makes sense in online games?

Re: Upping my preflop raise %
 

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I have a question for you all. Why do the people in this forum recommend preflop raising so much more than is suggested in SSHE? Is this because you all just generally disagree with the book, or because the book is written more for live games and the additional raising fits better with online ones?

And, if the latter is true, can someone tell me >why< more preflop raising makes sense in online games?

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I don't think it's either of those reasons. I think it's that SSHE doesn't suggest more raising because there are too many variables that it cant simplify into a chart for people who are just trying to learn to be winning players. I think it is trying to be as basic as possible with preflop play.

Re: Upping my preflop raise %
 

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I disagree on 87 and I think you're contradicting yourself at least a few times in that post.

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I say build that pot as in "get as much of their money in while they're willing to put it in", not "so that we can peel with a gutshot + BD flush omg I love calculating outs." I enjoy building a large pot with suited connectors. Big win when we connect, 1BB loss when we miss. Definitely my kind of trade off.

Re: Upping my preflop raise %
 

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3 - open raise. connected to point #2. For just about all hands, except lower PP's and suited connectors, playing them should be a raise or fold decision, even while in EP

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Do you open-limp small PP's and suited connectors in middle to late position?

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unless I have spectacularly loose players to act behind me, I'd insta fold them both in MP. For LP, I'd try to steal with nearly all PP's, and maybe the bigger (98s, maybe 87s) suited connectors

eddited for grammer

Re: Upping my preflop raise %
 

SSHE doesn't really cover stealing, open raising, and isolating.

from what i know, following the SSHE PF chart should have you ending up with an ~8% PFR. if you factor in the above 3 things, you find yourself with a much higher PFR%.

Re: Upping my preflop raise %
 

[ QUOTE ]
I have a question for you all. Why do the people in this forum recommend preflop raising so much more than is suggested in SSHE? Is this because you all just generally disagree with the book, or because the book is written more for live games and the additional raising fits better with online ones?

And, if the latter is true, can someone tell me >why< more preflop raising makes sense in online games?

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I think that it's a combination of reasons, really. First of all, it says right in SSH that the advice given in the book will not always be correct, and that as you develop as a player you will start to see exceptions to the generic rules laid out inside. SSH was written as a (superb) textbook for the advanced beginner through intermediate HE player; without trying to put words into the authors' mouths, it was never intended as a set-in-stone rulebook for the winning poker player. It's important to understand that when players on this board recommend raising in a situation that SSH does not (specifically), the reasoning behind that raise is the same that Mr.'s Miller, Malmuth, and Sklansky used to develop the book's broader examples.

I think that online poker vs. B&M poker also factors into it, because the online SS games are usually much tighter than live games played at the same limits. In the simplest possible terms, the tighter the game, the more often it is correct to raise preflop; all the examples you can think of where you raise behind multiple limpers with suited connectors or a medium pocket pair will not even out the times when you could be raising with total crap in an extremely tight game, confident of stealing the blinds more often than not.

Re: Upping my preflop raise %
 

I never played the .5/1 level, so I don't know if blind stealing applies, but a good way to up your PFR is to up your ASB%.

Re: Upping my preflop raise %
 

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How can I go about raising my PFR%?

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Look for situations as part of your reasons to raise.

Re: Upping my preflop raise %
 

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I never played the .5/1 level, so I don't know if blind stealing applies, but a good way to up your PFR is to up your ASB%.

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I've been playing the partypoker .5/1.00 rooms, and blinds actually get stolen maybe once every 1000 hands. You rarely get the chance to try it, and when you do, they just call with whatever they've got.

Re: Upping my preflop raise %
 

Now that I think about it, my PFR's been rather anemic as well. After 28k-odd hands of staying strictly within SSHE's tight chart, I can say with some confidence that it yields a PFR around what the OP has (mine's at 7.19% but I've been loosening up lately and was as low as 6.5%).

While we're on the subject, I'm gonna sneak in a PFR quesiton real quick. I had KJs in the small blind today in a Stars .50/1 game. UTG limped, folded to me. Is this worth a value raise given that we'll be 3 or 2 handed, despite poor position? I only have 14 hands on UTG, and I haven't seen him show down anything unusual (worst I've seen was 97s in the CO which is certainly acceptable). I only had 20 hands on the BB as well, but he didn't give off any obvious flaws in that time either.

Re: Upping my preflop raise %
 

I had this same problem myself when I looked over my first 10k logged hands. I'm not sure where you are playing, but the diffrences in tables made a huge diffrence to me going from the crypto .25/.50 to the Party .50/1.

It seems that people respect raises and stealing is easier at .50/1, but that might be beacuse I've opened up from a 18/8 with AF of 2.5(when Eeegah owned me a few times at Stars!) to a 20/10 with AF of 2.75.

This article helped a bit as well:
http://poker.betfirms.com/holdempreflop-abdul.shtml

Re: Upping my preflop raise %
 

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I've been playing the partypoker .5/1.00 rooms, and blinds actually get stolen maybe once every 1000 hands. You rarely get the chance to try it, and when you do, they just call with whatever they've got.

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every 1000 hands?

that's very far from the truth.

Re: Upping my preflop raise %
 

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How can I go about raising my PFR%?

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Look for situations as part of your reasons to raise.

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would you give an example of this? that is a situation, rather than just a hand.

Re: Upping my preflop raise %
 

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I had KJs in the small blind today in a Stars .50/1 game. UTG limped, folded to me. Is this worth a value raise given that we'll be 3 or 2 handed, despite poor position?

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I raise KJs in the blinds as my default play.

Re: Upping my preflop raise %
 

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I had KJs in the small blind today in a Stars .50/1 game. UTG limped, folded to me. Is this worth a value raise given that we'll be 3 or 2 handed, despite poor position?

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I raise KJs in the blinds as my default play.

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I do as well to take control. I used to hate being OOP. Now I take control, usually only losing to passives who call down with pocket pairs less than the nuts but better than my hand. As I go up in limits those people will have disappeared, but for now that tactic has worked.

Re: Upping my preflop raise %
 

I will raise KJs with one limper from the SB about 100% of the time, unless the limper is a known (beyond much doubt) rock.

This is a situation that I believe demands a follow-up bet on the flop, also, regardless of what falls. Anybody got a good situation where you'd raise this preflop and then check the flop?