Does stalling late in tournies actually do anything for ya?
 

Well the site I'm on doesn't do hand for hand play... so when it gets down to the bubble, people wait till the very last second to act.

Question: When should this be done and how would it help or hurt you?

My thinking is that you want to see a lot of hands as short stack on the bubble so you can catch sometin and steal blinds.... why just waste time so you can hope to get in the money... seems foolish to me and poor etiquette.


However, the site allows it, so I am wondering if I should ever do this myself?

Re: Does stalling late in tournies actually do anything for ya?
 

This should never be done. As a 2+2er you are required to play for 1st place in MTTs and therefor should be playing like a maniac around the bubble period when other players will tighten up to make 15.98 from their 10+1$ buy-in.

Re: Does stalling late in tournies actually do anything for ya?
 

[ QUOTE ]
This should never be done. As a 2+2er you are required to play for 1st place in MTTs and therefor should be playing like a maniac around the bubble period when other players will tighten up to make 15.98 from their 10+1$ buy-in.

[/ QUOTE ]

I do it sometimes in a turbo rebuy supersatellite on Stars when the blinds are huge, partly as a result of previous stalling. The blinds have me covered and I know I will advance if enough people at other tables bust out before the blinds hit me. Then I will stall.

In general I follow the 2+2 strategy above and play for 1st in MTTs, playing like a maniac against tight bubble players.

Re: Does stalling late in tournies actually do anything for ya?
 

I typically don't stall, but like betgo, in teh turbo satellites i will use my time bank when i'm in the SB late. but i dont take the full time each hand, just the one timebank

Re: Does stalling late in tournies actually do anything for ya?
 

It can cause a shorter stack than you get knocked off in that hand.

In live tournaments, the TD usually announces that dealers should notify the floor immediately if anyone is stalling.

It's not good form to do that. Your skill should prevail. Make your decisions quickly and don't worry about other tables. Stalling is related to angle shooting--it makes you look bad.

Re: Does stalling late in tournies actually do anything for ya?
 

If you think you're a bad player and the increasing blind sizes make the whole thing more of a luck-fest then stalling and getting the blinds to increase is slightly to your advantage. However this is a bit of a paradox because if you are aware of this phenomena then you are likely not as bad a player as everyone else at the table and therefore should not want the blinds to increase.

In other words; no, only morons stall. Ever.

Re: Does stalling late in tournies actually do anything for ya?
 

If you are satisfied by making it ITM and earning 50-100% of your buyin then I highly suggest stalling.

Re: Does stalling late in tournies actually do anything for ya?
 

The question does it accomplish anything -- yes, it pisses other players off, which you can use to your advantage.

I find it annoying, but I understand why people do it. My take on it is that it does two things -- 1) It might get you to the money, depending on the payoff and a player's situation, it might make sense 2) It decreases your chances of improving your situation. You want to see more hands. If you are doing this, you need to get lucky, and you need to get lucky more than once....

Re: Does stalling late in tournies actually do anything for ya?
 

Stalling does do something.

If you are on the bubble, and have no real chance at making the final table (say, you have enough to play one round when the BB will put you all in), stalling will often get you into the money.

Yes, it is poor ettiquite, and I have never done it, but if stalling is a +EV move, and 2+2ers are all about +EV, why not do it?

Re: Does stalling late in tournies actually do anything for ya?
 

[ QUOTE ]
In other words; no, only morons stall. Ever.

[/ QUOTE ]

It is definitely part of those turbo satelites to stall. It's not about trusting your skill, 4k/8k blinsd for average stacks of 12k make it a luckfest anyway. There is no reason not to atleast use your timebank and keep the blinds off you for as long as possible. It's an accepted part of those tournaments, and by not doing it you lower your EV considerably. No reason to hurt your value because you want to show the table proper etiquette.

That said, i think this is the only situation when it's the right move. In non satellites playing for first is more benificial than stalling to break the bubble and it's not accepted like in those turbo's.

Re: Does stalling late in tournies actually do anything for ya?
 

I hate stallers. Thats all im going to say.

Re: Does stalling late in tournies actually do anything for ya?
 

Does turning in stallers ever work? I got really pissed at a staller recently in the Full Tilt $28K VIP Freeroll (I usually only play cash games) when I had a medium stack. I was mad because I was near the bubble (first money positions paid like $85 while first paid like $5,800) and I wanted to get lucky. In other words, I played the tourney because a) it was free and b) the EV was about $50+ in my assumption. Anyway, I wanted to play for first and this moron kept stalling and keeping me from playing for first. If it had been in a casino I would have warned the person that I was going to call the floor once and then I would have called the floor. As it was, I warned the person, but I never contacted support because I didn't feel it would do any good b/c support would have never gotten there fast enough to catch the person in the act. We all made the money, but the person never quit stalling until they doubled up twice. Then, miraculously, they decided they wanted to play with the big stack (Go figure!).

I then considered stalling myself for revenge purposes, but I reconsidered that the best move for me was to continue to play for first instead of a $25 ladder move.

Re: Does stalling late in tournies actually do anything for ya?
 

If you are the worst player at your table, then stalling is always +EV. There I said it.

Of course, if you are the worst player at your table, then you should not be playing the tournament. But why do 2+2'ers hate stalling? Because they are good players, which means that on balance, they make money every time the cards are dealt out. If they are making money, someone else is losing money: the fish. So, though they may not realize it, they really are doing themselves a favor. By definition, fish lose money by playing hands. The fewer hands that get dealt, the less money the fish lose.

Re: Does stalling late in tournies actually do anything for ya?
 

Stalling in the turbo satellites turns the whole thing into Russian roulette crap shoot because the levels go up so fast, that before you're in the money virtually everyone at the table has less the the BB for a stack.

I personally hate it.

Re: Does stalling late in tournies actually do anything for ya?
 

Turbo sats are a russian roullette weather you like it or not. Not stalling in those gotta be -EV.

Re: Does stalling late in tournies actually do anything for ya?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Turbo sats are a russian roullette weather you like it or not. Not stalling in those gotta be -EV.

[/ QUOTE ]

Catch 22 here. They become russian roulette because everyone stalls.

Re: Does stalling late in tournies actually do anything for ya?
 

Your'e not suppose to fix the world, you're just suppose to take his money.

Re: Does stalling late in tournies actually do anything for ya?
 

Don't do it, bad form.

Besides I've seen super short stacks stall every hand for an orbit, only to have the blinds double just as they become the BB, at which point half their stack or more gets posted. If they had not been stalling, they would have seen more hands at the cheaper level, then missed the increase in blinds, giving them 8 more hands to play for free. Sucks for them.

And obviously, you don't even want to be in a position where stalling might help you, because it means that you are probably MORE likely to bust out from NOT playing any hands.

If you have 3x or more, you should be pushing a lot anyway, because the bubble period is the BEST opportunity to steal blinds in the whole tournament.

Re: Does stalling late in tournies actually do anything for ya?
 

my guess is that if you are stalling, you won't be doing any blind stealing because you have know FE with your extremely short stack.

Re: Does stalling late in tournies actually do anything for ya?
 

I saw the smartest use of selective stalling in a tournament recently.

The tournament was right on the bubble, one until the money. On another table, a small stack in the big blind was facing a call of his remaining 100 chips (after posting) into a pot of over 2000. Pot odds made the call very tempting.

However, the guy was smart. He waited until the action was done on all the other tables. He saw that another person had gone out on another table and promptly folded, making it into the $$.

Re: Does stalling late in tournies actually do anything for ya?
 

The only time I find stalling to be effective is when my table gets short handed for a minute due to multiple busts. In that situation I might stall a minute to get some new players. I do this for two reasons. First I don't want to play the blinds a few hands early. More importantly I don't want the new player to sit down behind the blinds getting 1.5 orbits before the pay their blinds.

Re: Does stalling late in tournies actually do anything for ya?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I saw the smartest use of selective stalling in a tournament recently.

The tournament was right on the bubble, one until the money. On another table, a small stack in the big blind was facing a call of his remaining 100 chips (after posting) into a pot of over 2000. Pot odds made the call very tempting.

However, the guy was smart. He waited until the action was done on all the other tables. He saw that another person had gone out on another table and promptly folded, making it into the $$.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why was that smart? If another player had already busted, he was ITM whether he lost the hand or not, right? When they are not on the same table, their stacks at the beginning of the respective hands doesn't matter, as the other player was knocked out first - so he passed a pot with 20:1 pot odds..

I never stall, I hate people doing it - but as said, it's useful for fish, as they will lose less money. So it's just a part of their strategy - don't blame them, blame the poker rooms that allow stalling because they're not playing HTH on the bubble.

Re: Does stalling late in tournies actually do anything for ya?
 

I agree with the first few responses that say you should never play like this. I also agree that I do this in turbo tournaments... The difference is that, in turbos, the blinds are so huge compared to stack sizes that every hand means 1 person per table will probably get knocked out.

In any case, to provide options: I'd stop playing at any site that doesn't do hand for hand, and sign up for a different site. My favorite tournament sites are Stars and Party. Stars because I absolutely love their structure, and Party because they are so large and often fishy.

Re: Does stalling late in tournies actually do anything for ya?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I hate stallers. Thats all im going to say.

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Most stallers early in the tournie tend to irate someone into AI when the staller has a hand. I think they do it sometimes to put another donk on tilt and try 4 a cheap double up.