My brother the Solider
 

My brothers Guard Unit was taken this past weekend to fort dix for 3 months of training before doing a year in Iraq. I am proud of him for serving country and emailed pictures to all my family of him in formation etc. My question is my mother who is not related to him sends me this email back: "Now you see why I am a democrat" How do you respond to this.

Re: My brother the Solider
 

why would a mother's concern for her son's well being need a response?

Re: My brother the Solider
 

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why would a mother's concern for her son's well being need a response?

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My question is my mother who is not related to him

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Re: My brother the Solider
 

In 1976, bob Dole referred to "Democrat Wars" because US involvement in WWI, WWII, Korea, and Vietnam all started under Democrat Presidents. I think this was ill-conceived of him, just as thinking of our war against terror as a Republican war is ill-conceived.

Maybe she is just not thinking clearly about this whole war thing. You know best whether you should challenge her flawed logic, or just let it slide.

Re: My brother the Solider
 

Great reply. America was clearly right in getting involved in WWI, WWII, and Korea (unsure about 'nam). Who knows what the Democrats would have done after 9/11 had they been in power. It's much easier to criticise the current administration over their post 9/11 conduct than it is to suggest a constructive alternative.

Re: My brother the Solider
 

My point was here my brother is in the military protecting our way of life and this woman on the day he leaves says such a thing...now she is a bush hater, but still if theres any day of the year to bite your tongue it is that day..his blood could spill on iraq soil and her comment is the best she can do?

Re: My brother the Solider
 

"Because you prefer snappy one-liners to supporting brave patriotic Americans who make incredible sacrifices for your well-being and security."

Re: My brother the Solider
 

100:1 odds that the democratic answer to 9/11 wouldn't be to invade a country that had no involvement in 9/11.

Re: My brother the Solider
 

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100:1 odds that the democratic answer to 9/11 wouldn't be to invade a country that had no involvement in 9/11

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Re: My brother the Solider
 

And here I thought Afghanistan was our response to the 9-11 attacks. Silly me.

To the OP, I wish your brother well. I don't know if there's any polite way to respond to your mother's comment. You're probably not going to change her mind with any response so perhaps it's best to leave it be. But you know your own situation better than any of us.

Re: My brother the Solider
 

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And here I thought Afghanistan was our response to the 9-11 attacks. Silly me.

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'There aren't any good targets in Afghanistan'

-Don Rumsfeld

Re: My brother the Solider
 

That quote's a little out of context, but whatever. We're still in Afghanistan and people are still being shot at, which means there must be some targets there.

Re: My brother the Solider
 

The operation in Afganistan has been hampered by the shift of resources to Iraq.

Where is Bin Laden? Didn't we capture Saddam a while back?

Re: My brother the Solider
 

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The operation in Afganistan has been hampered by the shift of resources to Iraq.

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I would agree considering we have less than 30K troops on the ground in Afghanistan


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Where is Bin Laden? Didn't we capture Saddam a while back?

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"I don't know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and really don't care. It's not that important. It's not our priority."
- G.W. Bush, 3/13/02

"I am truly not that concerned about him."
- G.W. Bush, repsonding to a question about bin Laden's whereabouts,
3/13/02 (The New American, 4/8/02)

Bush apparently has different priorities than OBL and bringing him to justice

Re: My brother the Solider
 

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I would agree considering we have less than 30K troops on the ground in Afghanistan

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And of course, you guys know the proper number of troops for this sort of mission much better than the generals in charge of the troops... [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

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Bush apparently has different priorities than OBL and bringing him to justice

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More out of context quotes. If you expect to be taken seriously then I suggest that you drop the Michael Moore-wannabe act and give proper context to the quotes you give.

Or maybe I'm wrong and you actually don't know the context behind these quotes and are just swiping them from liberal talking points without a care as to the context. Lord knows it's happened before...

Re: My brother the Solider
 

So where is Bin Laden?

Re: My brother the Solider
 

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And of course, you guys know the proper number of troops for this sort of mission much better than the generals in charge of the troops...

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Problem is Bush and Rumsfeld don't listen to their own generals.

How much more clearer can I make it that Bush doesn't put a priority on punishing OBL for 9/11 than give you quotes from the proverbial horse's mouth...

Jump up and down and scream liberal all you want. It doesn't change the fact that Bush said those things in response to direct questions about the hunt for OBL.

Re: My brother the Solider
 

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My point was here my brother is in the military protecting our way of life and this woman on the day he leaves says such a thing...now she is a bush hater, but still if theres any day of the year to bite your tongue it is that day..his blood could spill on iraq soil and her comment is the best she can do?

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I think you should solve your problems with her and don't waste our time with your personal vendettas.

Re: My brother the Solider
 

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My point was here my brother is in the military protecting our way of life

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Perhaps she doesn't believe that invading and occupying Iraq has anything to do with protecting our way of life... a lot of people hold that opinion. Yes, she probably could have chosen her words better, but considering the general political climate surrounding the war in Iraq I don't see how her comments could be a huge surprise, especially given your knowledge that she is a "Bush hater."

Re: My brother the Solider
 

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My point was here my brother is in the military protecting our way of life

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Are there still loads of you neocons out there who actually believe that fighting in Iraq is protecting your way of life? Seriously?

Re: My brother the Solider
 

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And here I thought Afghanistan was our response to the 9-11 attacks. Silly me.

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Are you suggesting that our involvement in Iraq right now isn't because of 9/11? Of course Afghanistan was one of our responses to 9/11 --- as is Iraq. For the most part, democrats supported going in to Afghanistan. Don't know if the same could be said of Iraq.

Re: My brother the Solider
 

Why dont you democrats call Bill Clinton and ask him where Bin Laden is? He called off an operation to move into Bin Ladin's compound that the speicial forces were training for months for, just days before the operation was going to take place.

Also reports were that the Sudaneese gov't offered the U.S. Bin Ladin after they kicked him out of their country and we turned him down because Clinton only thought he was a "criminal" and not a terrorist at the time. But to be fair in the 9/11 commission report couldn't fine evidence of this last claim, doesn't mean it didn't happen but not saying it's a fact either.

Re: My brother the Solider
 

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So where is Bin Laden?

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He is in Hiding.

Re: My brother the Solider
 

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Why dont you democrats call Bill Clinton and ask him where Bin Laden is? He called off an operation to move into Bin Ladin's compound that the speicial forces were training for months for

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And this is related to my post, how?

Re: My brother the Solider
 

Sorry I must of replied under the wrong post, sorry about that.

Re: My brother the Solider
 

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But to be fair in the 9/11 commission report couldn't fine evidence of this last claim, doesn't mean it didn't happen but not saying it's a fact either.

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And less than 7 weeks before the 9/11 attacks, here's what John Ashcroft was up to.

Interesting "coincidence", no?


q/q

How Can You Possibly Be Proud of Your Brother . . .
 

for serving in a war of aggression? Shouldn't you be more inclined to feel ashamed of him? Or perhaps believe that he was caught up in a conflict where his choices made little difference and he at least didn't personally make things worse. But pride? It isn't justified.

Now Sgt. Camilo Mejia, on the other hand, is someone a brother could be proud of. An veteran of the Iraq war, he risked prison and served a year rather than return on the grounds that "I was part of a war that I believed was immoral and criminal, a war of aggression, a war of imperial domination."

The brave young people who refuse to serve in criminal wars are the best America has to offer. Nothing you've written differentiates your brother from any other soldier in any other ignorant army.

P.S. Consider sending your Mother a list of Democrats Senators that voted for the war resolution and continue to support the occupation. This is a bipartisan crime.

Re: How Can You Possibly Be Proud of Your Brother . . .
 

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for serving in a war of aggression? Shouldn't you be more inclined to feel ashamed of him? Or perhaps believe that he was caught up in a conflict where his choices made little difference and he at least didn't personally make things worse. But pride? It isn't justified.

Now Sgt. Camilo Mejia, on the other hand, is someone a brother could be proud of. An veteran of the Iraq war, he risked prison and served a year rather than return on the grounds that "I was part of a war that I believed was immoral and criminal, a war of aggression, a war of imperial domination."

The brave young people who refuse to serve in criminal wars are the best America has to offer. Nothing you've written differentiates your brother from any other soldier in any other ignorant army.

P.S. Consider sending your Mother a list of Democrats Senators that voted for the war resolution and continue to support the occupation. This is a bipartisan crime.

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Suggesting that he be ashamed of his brother for serving in the armed forces? You're a real piece of [censored], you know that?

I don't give a flying [censored] what you think of the war, blah blah blah, everybody's got their opinions. Your response to the OP is cold, heartless, and shows you to be the scumbag you really are, regardless of political viewpoint.

Re: How Can You Possibly Be Proud of Your Brother . . .
 

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for serving in a war of aggression? Shouldn't you be more inclined to feel ashamed of him? Or perhaps believe that he was caught up in a conflict where his choices made little difference and he at least didn't personally make things worse. But pride? It isn't justified.

Now Sgt. Camilo Mejia, on the other hand, is someone a brother could be proud of. An veteran of the Iraq war, he risked prison and served a year rather than return on the grounds that "I was part of a war that I believed was immoral and criminal, a war of aggression, a war of imperial domination."

The brave young people who refuse to serve in criminal wars are the best America has to offer. Nothing you've written differentiates your brother from any other soldier in any other ignorant army.

P.S. Consider sending your Mother a list of Democrats Senators that voted for the war resolution and continue to support the occupation. This is a bipartisan crime.

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This post sucks. Big time.

Re: How Can You Possibly Be Proud of Your Brother . . .
 

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"Suggesting that he be ashamed of his brother for serving in the armed forces?

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No, I said "for serving in a war of aggression." Imbuing an unjust war with "pride" is no better than sending troops to die for an unjust cause. Russians should be proud of service in the Red Army to repel German aggression and ashamed for killing Ukranians or Afghans. Americans should be proud of service in WWII and ashamed of service in Vietnam or Iraq. It is the justification for the war that makes the difference, a rule of judgment that so-called "patriots" like to apply to every country in the world except their own. The character of the government fighting it hardly makes any more difference than the color of the uniforms or the size of the hats.

Re: How Can You Possibly Be Proud of Your Brother . . .
 

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"Suggesting that he be ashamed of his brother for serving in the armed forces?

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No, I said "for serving in a war of aggression." Imbuing an unjust war with "pride" is no better than sending troops to die for an unjust cause. Russians should be proud of service in the Red Army to repel German aggression and ashamed for killing Ukranians or Afghans. Americans should be proud of service in WWII and ashamed of service in Vietnam or Iraq. It is the justification for the war that makes the difference, a rule of judgment that so-called "patriots" like to apply to every country in the world except their own. The character of the government fighting it hardly makes any more difference than the color of the uniforms or the size of the hats.

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So you think soldiers should form individual judgments on whether a particular war, or battle, or maneuver, etc., is right or wrong? And then make an individual decision as to whether to partake? Please.

Re: My brother the Solider
 

Victor Borge used to do a joke about the composer, Haydn. His wife would come home and yell out, "Where are you, Haydn?"

Re: My brother the Solider
 

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Problem is Bush and Rumsfeld don't listen to their own generals.

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Ah, now you're an expert on the communications between the WH and generals. Do tell me how you know this.

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How much more clearer can I make it that Bush doesn't put a priority on punishing OBL for 9/11 than give you quotes from the proverbial horse's mouth...

Jump up and down and scream liberal all you want. It doesn't change the fact that Bush said those things in response to direct questions about the hunt for OBL.

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Okay, apparently you don't know what "context" means. I suggest you look it up before continuing this conversation.

Re: My brother the Solider
 

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So where is Bin Laden?

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If he was dead already they wouldn't tell us, he's too much of a resource in the 'fear and control' agenda thats tying up the loose ends of the last scraps of freedom we have left. They need his spectre lurking like a monster under everyones bed in order to put through all the draconian laws they intend over the next 5-10 years.

Mack

Re: My brother the Solider
 

Seems like, this woman, your mother, said this to you in a private email rather than to your brother to whom she is not related.

I hardly think this can be construed as being in poor taste. Perhaps the best response to it would be consider her opinion as food for thought.

Re: My brother the Solider
 

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He {OBL} is in Hiding.

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Is that Hiding, Afghanistan?

Seeing that you know where he is, please let Bush know (of course, he actually professes to not care where he is).

Re: How Can You Possibly Be Proud of Your Brother . . .
 

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So you think soldiers should form individual judgments on whether a particular war, or battle, or maneuver, etc., is right or wrong? And then make an individual decision as to whether to partake? Please.

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I don't know about battles and maneuvers - but of course, individual soldiers ought to make moral decisions about whether or not to partake in wars.

I think Nuremberg rightly demonstrated why we hold underlings accountable for the decisions they make, even if they were merely following orders.

Although I think there's a legitimate case to be made for battles and maneuvers, as well; soldiers may find themselves volunteering for what they initially considered to be a just war, only to find they're called on to behave unjustly - in which case, I have no problem releasing soldiers from whatever obligation their original consent provided.

Re: How Can You Possibly Be Proud of Your Brother . . .
 

Edge34,

Please refrain from making direct personal insults (or name-calling) aimed at other users of this forum.

Attack the argument, not the poster. I know it's hard sometimes.

Re: How Can You Possibly Be Proud of Your Brother . . .
 

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Please refrain from making direct personal insults (or name-calling) aimed at other users of this forum.

Attack the argument, not the poster. I know it's hard sometimes.


[/ QUOTE ]

Is the implication that it requires some impulse control to not attack Chris Alger personally?


If that's the case, I'm not sure you truly believe this:

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Attack the argument, not the poster.

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ought to be the standard, other than it's the law, so to speak.

Re: How Can You Possibly Be Proud of Your Brother . . .
 

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So you think soldiers should form individual judgments on whether a particular war, or battle, or maneuver, etc., is right or wrong?

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Particular wars, of course, and I suspect you and almost everyone else does also. Or are you suggesting that Iraqi soldiers should have participated in the invasion of Kuwait, and those that refused should have been punished? Battles and maneuvers within wars are different; again it depends on the justifiability of the war.