Odd line against a fairly aggressive opponent.
 

Party's $5/10. 5-handed but I'm posting it here anyway as the game was playing very much like a full ring $2/4 game with a LAG or two thrown in. My image is probably somewhat LAG but it's doubtful anyone at this table is paying much attention.

UTG folds. One somewhat aggressive player limps in middle position. He sees showdowns too often but is probably an average handreader, capable of folding when it's clear he's beaten but sometimes it takes a bit of convincing (usually multiple bets on a big street). Bad loose button limps. SB folds. I check in the BB with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. Three to the flop.

Flop is K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. I bet. Aggressive limper calls. Button folds.

Turn is a 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. I check. Aggressive limper bets. I call.

River is the 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. I bet.

Re: Odd line against a fairly aggressive opponent.
 

So you:

1. Figured him to fold to a turn c/r
2. Figured him to call the river bet?

Re: Odd line against a fairly aggressive opponent.
 

nice hand.

-SmileyEH

Re: Odd line against a fairly aggressive opponent.
 

Perfect. Nice hand.

Re: Odd line against a fairly aggressive opponent.
 

fold to a river raise?

Re: Odd line against a fairly aggressive opponent.
 

[ QUOTE ]
fold to a river raise?

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Insta-calling a river raise.

Re: Odd line against a fairly aggressive opponent.
 

Why not raise the turn? Are you sure he's going to fold unless he has The A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] or Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]?

Re: Odd line against a fairly aggressive opponent.
 

You say fairly aggressive sees too many showdowns. If he has a heart I think he calls a turn raise and calls a river bet. Basically I think you're good more often then not and are missing a bet. Now, if he doesn't have a heart he probally folds to the CR, but then I doubt he'd call your river bet.

Re: Odd line against a fairly aggressive opponent.
 

[ QUOTE ]
You say fairly aggressive sees too many showdowns. If he has a heart I think he calls a turn raise and calls a river bet. Basically I think you're good more often then not and are missing a bet. Now, if he doesn't have a heart he probally folds to the CR, but then I doubt he'd call your river bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you checkraise and are 3-bet, what's your play? Also, how often are you seeing someone with the 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] call a turn checkraise and a river bet?

Rob

Re: Odd line against a fairly aggressive opponent.
 

[ QUOTE ]
fold to a river raise?

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Would you really lay down the third nuts against an aggressive player for 1 bet on the river? No way in hell I fold to a raise -- in fact, I *want* him to raise with likely a worse hand. I wouldn't 3-bet, obviously, but I'm calling this every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

Re: Odd line against a fairly aggressive opponent.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
fold to a river raise?

[/ QUOTE ]

Would you really lay down the third nuts against an aggressive player for 1 bet on the river? No way in hell I fold to a raise -- in fact, I *want* him to raise with likely a worse hand. I wouldn't 3-bet, obviously, but I'm calling this every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

[/ QUOTE ]


probably not, just wanted to pick entity's brain on that one, cause its a interesting line

Re: Odd line against a fairly aggressive opponent.
 

I like it

Re: Odd line against a fairly aggressive opponent.
 

If he 3-bets my CR I'm not happy about that but I'm going to call him down.
1)It's five handed and you've got the third nut flush. There's two cards in the deck that beat you.
2)Your image is LAG. If he's smart enough to figure that out he might be three betting for value, if he hasn't noticed that he's likely to bet a lower heart for value because he doesn't know any better.
3)You were in the BB in an unraised pot. Which means that you could literally be holding any two. He's got to drop his range of possible hearts you might be holding.
4)Put yourself in his shoes, what are you three betting a lag with? If you flopped a set are you letting it go?
If he three bets my guess is that you're beat, but I think it's worth the call down. With that being said I think the times you CR the turn and he folds, or calls/calls will outweigh when he 3-bets and beats you.

Is he calling a CR and then a river bet with a 2 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]? I doubt it, but he's probaly not calling your call, river bet with a 2 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] either.

Re: Odd line against a fairly aggressive opponent.
 

Checking the turn is by far the best play, why?

1) If he doesn't have a [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] he will just fold.
2) If he has us beat, he will raise and we lose more.
3) He is drawing thin/dead if we have the best hand, and we are drawing dead if we have the worst hand.

So unless the villian has a set (not likely IMO), we don't have to worry about giving a free card here. Give him some rope to hang himself if he doesn't have a [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. This is classic WA/WB. If our hand is good now, it will be good at showdown. If it isn't good now, it will lose at showdown.

Now if Entity held the nuts here, he would surely bet again with the hopes that either a worse hands calls down or raises. When you don't have the nuts, you should "slowplay" to avoid folding out a hand that is drawing dead and getting raised by a hand that has you in the vice.

For more on this, take a look at Mason's column in the July edition of the Internet Magazine.

Brad

Re: Odd line against a fairly aggressive opponent.
 

edit: just read Shillx's post.

Re: Odd line against a fairly aggressive opponent.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Checking the turn is by far the best play, why?

1) If he doesn't have a [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] he will just fold.
2) If he has us beat, he will raise and we lose more.
3) He is drawing thin/dead if we have the best hand, and we are drawing dead if we have the worst hand.

So unless the villian has a set (not likely IMO), we don't have to worry about giving a free card here. Give him some rope to hang himself if he doesn't have a [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. This is classic WA/WB. If our hand is good now, it will be good at showdown. If it isn't good now, it will lose at showdown.

Now if Entity held the nuts here, he would surely bet again with the hopes that either a worse hands calls down or raises. When you don't have the nuts, you should "slowplay" to avoid folding out a hand that is drawing dead and getting raised by a hand that has you in the vice.

For more on this, take a look at Mason's column in the July edition of the Internet Magazine.

Brad

[/ QUOTE ]

Nice post. I'll have to read Mason's article as I haven't seen this talked about too much, but you nailed my thinking pretty well.

Rob

Re: Odd line against a fairly aggressive opponent.
 

Rob,

I think this hand was played expertly. Thanks for the idea. My tendancy on this type of hand would probably have been to bet the turn and fold to a raise, but it is quite clear this is a much better way to play the hand.

Re: Odd line against a fairly aggressive opponent.
 

I bet the turn entirely too much here. Thanks for the great post shillix..nh