Even I need to post a hand once in a while
 

The guy who capped preflop is about 25 pfr, like most of the usual suspects at the table. The guy who leads into everyone just sat, but the hand prior to this one he went multiple bets w/88 on a 9xxx board, against another uber aggro character.



Here is the scoop folks...its pretty simple, I need to know who raises the turn. Mentally I felt I had to, but couldnt pull the trigger. My thoughts at the moment were; must clear out overcards if I want to win this pot and then the little devil on my shoulder said, NO, you are spewing chips dumb ass. Sigh. The river was a blur.

Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) converter

Preflop: MysticRiver8 is UTG with T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
<font color="#CC3333">MysticRiver8 raises</font>, MP calls, <font color="#CC3333">Button 3-bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB caps</font>, BB calls, MysticRiver8 calls, MP calls, Button calls.

Flop: (20 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, MysticRiver8 calls, MP folds, Button calls, SB calls.

Turn: (12 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, MysticRiver8 calls, Button folds, SB calls.

River: (15 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, MysticRiver8 checks.

Whatever.

Final Pot: 15 BB

Re: Even I need to post a hand once in a while
 

Raise the blank turn.

Gotta love it when the whole table sees the flop for 4 bets.

Re: Even I need to post a hand once in a while
 

I like it.

Re: Even I need to post a hand once in a while
 

[ QUOTE ]
I like it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Eek, thats a big problem. I assure you there is very little to like here. Whether won or not this was dismal.

Re: Even I need to post a hand once in a while
 

You really need to raise somewhere here as you obviously know.

The turn would be good since it was a relative blank and you could get everyone with 7:1 at odds, making their call a mistake.

Re: Even I need to post a hand once in a while
 

I like a turn raise.

Re: Even I need to post a hand once in a while
 

Yeah, of course I know. Seen it all, done it all. My question is who actually raises. Put yourself in my spot, think about the preflop action...do you raise (knowing that it is very likely they will incorrectly fold).

I aint talking about Sklansky bucks, I am talking about practical application.

Re: Even I need to post a hand once in a while
 

This seems textbook SSH "wait until the turn to raise," right? Am I missing something? It's just that we see that concept misapplied so often in hands here, so I'm almost not sure anymore.

Re: Even I need to post a hand once in a while
 

Im a pussy and I cant raise here. Looks almost like SB is holding a monster and Im about to get 3 bet.

Re: Even I need to post a hand once in a while
 

[ QUOTE ]
This seems textbook SSH "wait until the turn to raise," right? Am I missing something? It's just that we see that concept misapplied so often in hands here, so I'm almost not sure anymore.

[/ QUOTE ]


Well, the callers would be getting 7.5:1 to call here so with AK (which we assume SB has) he is getting the correct odds to call. However, having it 2bets to you means you fold in almost all cases, unless you are sure you can still win the hand. In many cases AK is drawing dead on the turn here.

Re: Even I need to post a hand once in a while
 

[ QUOTE ]

Yeah, of course I know. Seen it all, done it all. My question is who actually raises. Put yourself in my spot, think about the preflop action...do you raise (knowing that it is very likely they will incorrectly fold).

I aint talking about Sklansky bucks, I am talking about practical application.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would raise this every time same 2 bets as paying off easy laydown to 3 bet. I would hate to call this with a player behind me.

Re: Even I need to post a hand once in a while
 

I raise this turn, but folding is better than calling as a 2nd option - if we're ahead you're letting all sorts of hands with outs call correctly. In practice I raise the turn.

Surf

Re: Even I need to post a hand once in a while
 

Can't say I'd do it till I was in the situation. Forizzle the turn raise is a good play.

Re: Even I need to post a hand once in a while
 

Obviously, you didn't call the turn to fold on the river UI.

If you are willing to put in two more BB in this pot, you have to raise the turn. If you are reraised, you know what to do. If not, you probably get a free river anyway.

Re: Even I need to post a hand once in a while
 

The pot is large, and now it is your job to win it. That requires protecting your hand. Hence, raising the turn is the only way to play this. Calling and allowing cheap overcalls makes me throw up a little in my mouth.

Considering you played it this way, not betting the river makes me vomit all over my computer.

Re: Even I need to post a hand once in a while
 

[ QUOTE ]
Considering you played it this way, not betting the river makes me vomit all over my computer.



[/ QUOTE ]

[img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Why? Who's gonna call him that isn't beating him? [edit: and who's gonna fold that was beating him?]

I agree with the turn raise, but the way he played it, I vote for a river check behind.

Re: Even I need to post a hand once in a while
 

A 9 may call or a jack may fold. You may well have the best hand. Give them a chance to make a mistake. Obviously neither opponent has a king...

I agree that betting isn't necessarily automatic. I'm betting here when checked to just about every time, though, FWIW. Then again, I don't play this limit and was just mindlessly speculating.

Re: Even I need to post a hand once in a while
 

[ QUOTE ]
Someone with a 9 may call. A jack very well may fold. Give them a chance to make a mistake. Obviously neither opponent has a king...

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't play the 15 game but I don't see it happening.

If BB has a 9, he probably either fires the river again, or check/calls. If sb has a 9, he is not calling the turn to fold on the river.

I don't think a J will fold after he sees everyone check to the last person to act.

Re: Even I need to post a hand once in a while
 

I don't care what limit you play a J never folds. Ever. But I do agree that the check is quite weird after this particular action.

Re: Even I need to post a hand once in a while
 

Aarrggg I feel your pain and play it the same way, right down to the sick "I should raise this turn and if I don't raise it I should fold but errr... CALL" feeling.

I am so weak.

Guy.

Re: Even I need to post a hand once in a while
 

I dont understand why you didnt raise the turn. Perfect spot.

Re: Even I need to post a hand once in a while
 

Yah I raise the turn , the fact that SB didn't lead put him on overcards. You have to raise so AKQ will find a fold. And you have to hope BB was getting moronic with a OESD or a 9... It's a HUGE pot and you have to do what you can to win it. I might take the free showdown if I raised on the turn...

Re: Even I need to post a hand once in a while
 

results.

bb: 88
sb: AK

i am a perma donk.