Common scenario for me
 

PP NL100. Exactly my second hand at the table. I have $100, he has $78. Zero reads.

I'm in CO+1 with KQo. Its folded to me, I raise to $4, SB reraises to $8, I call.

($17) FLOP: KQ6.

He leads for $9, I raise to $25, he reraises to $50...

Re: Common scenario for me
 

The SB reraise always means big-pair when I'm playing.
Maybe it could be AK.
I think you're about 50/50 here.

I can't lay it down.

Re: Common scenario for me
 

I couldn't lay it down, either. With KQo you're hoping KQ6 flops. I'd push, but wet myself till it's over.

If it's a poor player with QQ, maybe your push will convince him you have KK. It could happen. [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

Re: Common scenario for me
 

Nobody lays this down? I don't but I hope some of the better players might w/ reads. How often does this need to be a set to may a lay down correct?

Re: Common scenario for me
 

Push. Let's assume we can limit SB's hand range to AA-QQ or AK because of the preflop reraise + flop action. You say no reads, so I'd just use math -
AA: 6 ways
KK: 1 way
QQ: 1 way
AK: 8 ways

You're significantly ahead of 14 of villain's holdings while drawing practically dead to only 2. I'm happy to get my money in with no reads against that hand range. Even if you eliminate AK, you're still good to call.

-cj

Re: Common scenario for me
 

Ok, maybe this is going to sound a bit unsophisticated but what was you hoping to see on the flop? Other than flopping a staight this flop is perfect. Im not too sure about you calling this raise preflop I personally lay it down preflop with no reads, but once you've called this is perfect and you have no choice but to push. If he has its unlikely he has KK or QQ because you have both of them cards in your hand and on the board (still possibly but less likely). I think this is a very straight forward push and if you feel like you should lay this down your call preflop was a huge mistake.

Re: Common scenario for me
 

He min-raises pre-flop with 66? KK or QQ are unlikely enough that I pay off a set here without a strong read. Smells like badly played AA to me, maybe AK. Plus if he is bad enough to min-raise KK or QQ preflop he is prob not good enough to lead the flop with a set.

Results
 

I was up against QQ and pretty much knew it before I called. No help, I lose. BTW, I really HATE KQo...

-Jihad

Re: Results
 

That's why you should fold to the reraise preflop.

Re: Common scenario for me
 

At this point, it's an easy call.

However, don't let it get to this point.

You don't have to raise KQ here. Party 100NL is a game where you can just nut peddle if you want. Raising if fine if you want to do that, but fold it to a reraise even if you're getting nice odds to call. Remember, chances are you'll be dominated.

Ryan

Re: Common scenario for me
 

[ QUOTE ]
Raising if fine if you want to do that, but fold it to a reraise even if you're getting nice odds to call. Remember, chances are you'll be dominated.

[/ QUOTE ]

You absolutely must fold to the min-reraise. You will also get the added benefit of people at your table not necessarily respecting your raises, helping you get paid off when you DO have a monster.

Re: Common scenario for me
 

Unlike some others, I think a fold here is perfectly prudent. KK, QQ, and 66 are all pretty possible. You're not in it for a huge amount of your stack, you don't know who he is, etc. I rarely play at Party, but I think a typical 100 NL player rarely risks his stack on a higher PP (like AA) given the amount oif action you've already given him.

What was the result?

Re: Common scenario for me
 

[ QUOTE ]
Unlike some others, I think a fold here is perfectly prudent. KK, QQ, and 66 are all pretty possible. You're not in it for a huge amount of your stack, you don't know who he is, etc. I rarely play at Party, but I think a typical 100 NL player rarely risks his stack on a higher PP (like AA) given the amount oif action you've already given him.

What was the result?

[/ QUOTE ]

if you fold here, then what the hell kind of flop are you looking to hit?

short of a flopped straight, it ain't gettin any better than this in terms of getting paid off way more times by misplayed AK and AA then actually being behind.

Re: Common scenario for me
 

[ QUOTE ]
if you fold here, then what the hell kind of flop are you looking to hit?

short of a flopped straight, it ain't gettin any better than this in terms of getting paid off way more times by misplayed AK and AA then actually being behind.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're right. That's a great flop for your hand. Now, is it the winning hand? Ah, now we're not so sure.

KK is a great hand . . . until it's all in heads up against AA. See what I'm saying?

Re: Common scenario for me
 

99.9% of party 100NL players will do more than just a minraise preflop there with KK and *most* will with QQ, and 66 is just as unlikely given the level of play in this game...the only plausible hands here are AK and AQ and a long shot QQ and given the flop betting, we can eliminate AQ.

if this was a game filled with skilled players at higher stakes i would agree with your logic, but it isnt.

yes, occasionally you will be up against QQ and be drawing nearly dead but at party 100NL you will be up against a pissed off AK WAYYYYYYYYYYY more often

since even though in this situation he may be behind (when someone posts a hand like this, its often safe to assume he lost the hand)....95% of the time you will take the other players entire stack here and get shown AK.

Re: Common scenario for me
 

this is an easy fold.

nobody expect you to drop top two.

and he doesn't know you don't have a set.

you could consider smoothcalling that suspicious half pot flop bet if opponent is really aggressive and capable of 3 betting AK as well as KK, QQ.

Re: Common scenario for me
 

[ QUOTE ]
99.9% of party 100NL players will do more than just a minraise preflop there with KK and *most* will with QQ, and 66 is just as unlikely given the level of play in this game...the only plausible hands here are AK and AQ and a long shot QQ and given the flop betting, we can eliminate AQ.

if this was a game filled with skilled players at higher stakes i would agree with your logic, but it isnt.

yes, occasionally you will be up against QQ and be drawing nearly dead but at party 100NL you will be up against a pissed off AK WAYYYYYYYYYYY more often

since even though in this situation he may be behind (when someone posts a hand like this, its often safe to assume he lost the hand)....95% of the time you will take the other players entire stack here and get shown AK.

[/ QUOTE ]

I find plenty of party100 players that minraise AA-QQ.

more often than I find players that make a real raise with these hands.

Re: Common scenario for me
 

you dont agree with my claim that even if he is behind in this very specific hand, which he probably is given that he posted it...

he is up against AK a far greater percentage of the time, enough so that the +EV move is to push as the times you are behind KK and QQ are far outweighed by the times that you are way ahead of AK

Re: Common scenario for me
 

I think the number of party players who reraise ak is not that great.

also, I don't think they are that aggressive to 3 bet AK here.

remember, he has no idea you don't have QQ if he has AK. what would you raise him to 25 wth?

does he honestly expect to push you off QQ with a 3 bet trying to convince you of KK?

is he that aggressive/tiltable that he is frustrated that top pair is not best hand? I typically find this to be fairly rare.

Re: Common scenario for me
 

the typical party 100 player does not think on this level.

the vast majority of players are shitting their pants with joy when they get re-raised holding TPTK and are ready to get it all in the middle right then and there.

Re: Common scenario for me
 

[ QUOTE ]
the typical party 100 player does not think on this level.

the vast majority of players are shitting their pants with joy when they get re-raised holding TPTK and are ready to get it all in the middle right then and there.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know, I haven't found this to be the case but we can agree to disagree.what really makes it fishy is the 1/2 pot bet. its begging for a raise.

Re: Common scenario for me
 

they think that they are "trapping" hands like AQ, KJ, KT....the idea of not getting action on their top pair because they bet too much is a huge deterrant to most donks

Re: Common scenario for me
 

Put your money in the mittle

Re: Common scenario for me
 

U know people who lay down their hand when the flop trips in Q???

Re: Common scenario for me
 

This could so easily be AK/AA that you cannot lay this down.

When he re-raises preflop, you need to re-evaluate your position. Since you have no read, you do not know if this guy is a passive player who never defends his blinds except with QQ-KK-AA, or if this is a LAG who won't let anyone come near his blind.

Until you know this, I think this is a (hard to make) laydown preflop.