So, last night I played the Stars $11R...
 

I had two or three 2+2 players at my table pretty much for the entire first hour.

Is ultra-lag (actively seeking coinflips or even 60/40 dog situations) to try and build a monster stack going into the second hour really the +EV play? I've seen a lot of players dump a lot of money on rebuys yielding a crazy bad $/chip cost.

Presumably, there is value in having a larger than average chip stack going into the second hour. So, for that value, it would be fair to say that spending more to get it would be +EV. However, I wonder where the cut off is.

If I can all but guarantee that I can go into the second hour with 5000 chips for a cost of, say, $50 (0.01/chip), would it be worth it to spend an average of *more* than 0.01/chip to get a larger stack? If so, how much more? 0.011? 0.015? 0.02?

Re: So, last night I played the Stars $11R...
 

I am new to rebuy tourneys, however because of the crazy play I usually just rebuy immediately giving me 3000 chips then dont play anything the first hour except AA KK QQ AKs, usually i catch one of those and get up to ~4500 chips at break then add on which puts me at about 6500 chips and usually above avg chip stack... that is where i feel the real tourney starts.

Re: So, last night I played the Stars $11R...
 

I play rebuys lots at the moment, and instant rebuy at start (3000 chips) and aim for 10-20k after first hour finishes. The more chips i have, the tigher i'll play, so basically i'll play pretty loose to get to 6k, then start playing tighter.

Sometimes i do this without rebuying again, sometimes i rebuy 10 times, all depends on the cards really. I feel having a decent stack after the first hour gives me a decent advantage, however im not all that sure on how many chips its worth me 'buying'

Re: So, last night I played the Stars $11R...
 

Why shoot for 10,000 first hour with extreme risk when you can easily get ~6000 with very little risk? In both cases you have many times the BB ... how much more benifit is the 4000 compared to the extra rebuys?

Re: So, last night I played the Stars $11R...
 

[ QUOTE ]
Why shoot for 10,000 first hour with extreme risk when you can easily get ~6000 with very little risk? In both cases you have many times the BB ... how much more benifit is the 4000 compared to the extra rebuys?

[/ QUOTE ]because you want to get the biggest stack possible and if that means rebuying 10x thats fine.there have been alot of threads where rebuying can become -EV. but the thought is a quality player will do ALOT better with a big stack than a quality player with a averaGE Stack

Re: So, last night I played the Stars $11R...
 

[ QUOTE ]
Why shoot for 10,000 first hour with extreme risk when you can easily get ~6000 with very little risk? In both cases you have many times the BB ... how much more benifit is the 4000 compared to the extra rebuys?

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with this. The 1st rebuy should be mandatory (as well as add-on) but I am not going to play like the rest of the field to double that bc the risk is not worth the reward. These tournaments are make or break in the mid game, not the first hour.

Re: So, last night I played the Stars $11R...
 

The guys who consistently go deep in this tournament, play like maniacs.

I've finished in the final three tables probably 10 times in the 25K alone. Almost every time I've gone deep, I've had a huge stack because of loose play,

Re: So, last night I played the Stars $11R...
 

i want as big of a stack as possible post-rebuy for 2 reasons:

1) i want the table covered
2) i don't mind dumping some chips during the rebuy period because 90% of these donkeys can't play deep-stack poker

the 2nd hour of this tournament is filled w/ such horrible play...you want to cover as many ppl as possible.

Re: So, last night I played the Stars $11R...
 

I've been 31'st or better three times in the last two weeks and never play 'loose'. I do, however, play selective.

Why spend 200 pushing every other hand when waiting for aces and pushing them will probably still get you called twice?

Re: So, last night I played the Stars $11R...
 

I'm not saying I go in looking to spend 200$.

But if your not averaging 50-60 per tourney...I think your playing too tight.

Re: So, last night I played the Stars $11R...
 

I probably average 40-60-ish depending on my cards. All I'm really doing is waiting for 99/AQ+ and overbetting. I also limp a lot of hands like AJ from EP and call one maniac all in but fold if he gets a caller, etc.

I wind up at 10K-ish - half the stack of a MLG - at the end of the hour but for 1/5 of the money it's not bad at all.

Re: So, last night I played the Stars $11R...
 

[ QUOTE ]
I've been 31'st or better three times in the last two weeks and never play 'loose'. I do, however, play selective.

Why spend 200 pushing every other hand when waiting for aces and pushing them will probably still get you called twice?

[/ QUOTE ]

This is spot on. I do play looser in rebuys when in position (about similar to the way I would play a big stack when I am not quite the table bully), but I am still looking for only quality hands to get all my chips in. I will chase flushes, etc. so long as I arguably have the implied odds to do so. My implied odds standards are typically higher in a nonrebuy period.

Re: So, last night I played the Stars $11R...
 

The level of play in the second hour is generally horrendous, with amble possibilities of doubling.

You can't double through a player that you cover.

I see no point in spending multiple rebuys on finishing the rebuy period as the table leader, when you can get there for free with little risk in second hour.

Best,

McMelchior (Johan)

Re: So, last night I played the Stars $11R...
 

[ QUOTE ]
The level of play in the second hour is generally horrendous, with amble possibilities of doubling.

You can't double through a player that you cover.



[/ QUOTE ]

...then why rebuy at all? i'm a bit confused, i'd rather have someone covered than be able to double up through them.....

Re: So, last night I played the Stars $11R...
 

[ QUOTE ]
The guys who consistently go deep in this tournament, play like maniacs.

I've finished in the final three tables probably 10 times in the 25K alone. Almost every time I've gone deep, I've had a huge stack because of loose play,

[/ QUOTE ]

What you consider loose, I may consider my normal game. I think 50 should be about what one should expect to spend on these. Pushing your big hands harder is key first hour I guess and this will lead to having to rebuy.

But "maniacs typically go deep" I dont agree with in principle. Although it may be the case in practice, long term results are better with a tempered approach.

Re: So, last night I played the Stars $11R...
 

Your rephrasing my words.

I'm saying typically the people who go deep, are maniacs. Big difference.

Watch t soprano, johnny bax, gank, gigabet, any of those big name players in this tournament. They play loose in the beginning.

Re: So, last night I played the Stars $11R...
 

[ QUOTE ]
Your rephrasing my words.

I'm saying typically the people who go deep, are maniacs. Big difference.

Watch t soprano, johnny bax, gank, gigabet, any of those big name players in this tournament. They play loose in the beginning.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, that's fine, but it doesnt really prove anything. If 75% of the field is of the maniac ilk, then it logically follows that you will see a shtload of them deep in the tournament. Especially those listed above who are quite capable players regardless of there 1st hour style.

Re: So, last night I played the Stars $11R...
 

I don't see the point of multiple rebuys. I try to make it to the add on with no more than one--it seems to make much more sense to take advantage of the loose play of people who do make multiple rebuys, if you can. Let them pay for your chips!

Re: So, last night I played the Stars $11R...
 

I am the LAG you were referencing. Essentially have 15-20K after the break is such a GIANT advantage in these tournies because many of the players here are horrid at deep stacks and you can easily push around the table and grow it exponentially while still surviving a loss here and there. Generally speaking having a ton of chips after rebuy period is well worth the added variance you get in buy in price.

Re: So, last night I played the Stars $11R...
 

[ QUOTE ]
I don't see the point of multiple rebuys. I try to make it to the add on with no more than one--it seems to make much more sense to take advantage of the loose play of people who do make multiple rebuys, if you can. Let them pay for your chips!

[/ QUOTE ]

I think there is a point...arriving at the end of the first hour with an above average stack is great. 3 BIs is a MUST...but allow yourself some room to get sucked out on a couple of times. Always have the maximum chips allowable...why have 1500 and let a LAG double you up to 3k when they will do the same and you goto 6k? If you bust, you have to buyin for 2 more under the same logic.