ESPN faked Set of Tens Laydown
 

Hi, I've been a lurker on here for a while and i think that I have something to add to the discussion of Tommy Reed's laydown of a set of Tens on ESPN's WSOP broadcast last night. There has been speculation on here that ESPN faked the hand (a la Tony D v. Phil Hellmuth in 2003 ME). After looking at the hand on Tivo, it seems pretty clear to me that the hand was faked, and that Tommy Reed did not actually have pocket Tens.

Let's recount the action:
-David Pham open-raises with Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
-We see Pham throw his chips in the pot. Then we see Phil Ivey fold his hand. The the camera goes to a closeup on Tommy Reed's face.
-Then we see Reed's pocket cam. We see Reed look at T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. To the right of Reed's cards (from Reed's perspective) are two stacks (probably 20 high) of blue chips.
-We then see Reed's face, and the camera pans down to Reed playing with a blue chip. Then the camera angle changes and we see Reed playing with his chips, with his cards on the far right. There are (what looks like) two stacks of yellow chips on the left, and one stack of blue chips to the right of that. There are no chips to the right of Reed's cards.

In my opinion, the implication of this is that ESPN took footage of Reed looking at pocket Tens from another point in the tournament, and edited that footage into this hand.

One likely counterargument to this post is that the two stacks of blue chips were actually Phil Ivey's chips (since Phil was sitting to Reed's right). But if you look at the shot of Reed contemplating a call, you can see that Ivey's chips are quite far away from Reed's cards.

Kwyjibo

Re: ESPN faked Set of Tens Laydown
 

HOLY SH!T. YOU FIGURED IT OUT!!!

Next case: Kennedy assassination.

Re: ESPN faked Set of Tens Laydown
 

In this case, as was the case with the Tony D. vs. Hellmuth hand, the only way your implication will have merit is if the person actually speaks up and says something.

I recall a respectable poster some time in this forum earlier stating that he had talked (or heard) Tony D. say at the table that he did indeed lay down the trips. So take that for that it's worth.

Re: ESPN faked Set of Tens Laydown
 

Wow and then they faked Reed turning to Ivey and telling him he had folded a set of tens. They are really getting tricky

Re: ESPN faked Set of Tens Laydown
 

[ QUOTE ]
Hi, I've been a lurker on here for a while and i think that I have something to add to the discussion of Tommy Reed's laydown of a set of Tens on ESPN's WSOP broadcast last night. There has been speculation on here that ESPN faked the hand (a la Tony D v. Phil Hellmuth in 2003 ME). After looking at the hand on Tivo, it seems pretty clear to me that the hand was faked, and that Tommy Reed did not actually have pocket Tens.

Let's recount the action:
-David Pham open-raises with Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
-We see Pham throw his chips in the pot. Then we see Phil Ivey fold his hand. The the camera goes to a closeup on Tommy Reed's face.
-Then we see Reed's pocket cam. We see Reed look at T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. To the right of Reed's cards (from Reed's perspective) are two stacks (probably 20 high) of blue chips.
-We then see Reed's face, and the camera pans down to Reed playing with a blue chip. Then the camera angle changes and we see Reed playing with his chips, with his cards on the far right. There are (what looks like) two stacks of yellow chips on the left, and one stack of blue chips to the right of that. There are no chips to the right of Reed's cards.

In my opinion, the implication of this is that ESPN took footage of Reed looking at pocket Tens from another point in the tournament, and edited that footage into this hand.

One likely counterargument to this post is that the two stacks of blue chips were actually Phil Ivey's chips (since Phil was sitting to Reed's right). But if you look at the shot of Reed contemplating a call, you can see that Ivey's chips are quite far away from Reed's cards.

Kwyjibo

[/ QUOTE ]

Uh huh....and Reed actually saying "I folded a set of 10's" after the hand was over must have been a Chris Berman voiceover right? *rolls eyes*

Re: ESPN faked Set of Tens Laydown
 

[ QUOTE ]
Hi, I've been a lurker on here for a while and i think that I have something to add to the discussion of Tommy Reed's laydown of a set of Tens on ESPN's WSOP broadcast last night. There has been speculation on here that ESPN faked the hand (a la Tony D v. Phil Hellmuth in 2003 ME). After looking at the hand on Tivo, it seems pretty clear to me that the hand was faked, and that Tommy Reed did not actually have pocket Tens.

Let's recount the action:
-David Pham open-raises with Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
-We see Pham throw his chips in the pot. Then we see Phil Ivey fold his hand. The the camera goes to a closeup on Tommy Reed's face.
-Then we see Reed's pocket cam. We see Reed look at T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. To the right of Reed's cards (from Reed's perspective) are two stacks (probably 20 high) of blue chips.
-We then see Reed's face, and the camera pans down to Reed playing with a blue chip. Then the camera angle changes and we see Reed playing with his chips, with his cards on the far right. There are (what looks like) two stacks of yellow chips on the left, and one stack of blue chips to the right of that. There are no chips to the right of Reed's cards.

In my opinion, the implication of this is that ESPN took footage of Reed looking at pocket Tens from another point in the tournament, and edited that footage into this hand.

One likely counterargument to this post is that the two stacks of blue chips were actually Phil Ivey's chips (since Phil was sitting to Reed's right). But if you look at the shot of Reed contemplating a call, you can see that Ivey's chips are quite far away from Reed's cards.

Kwyjibo

[/ QUOTE ]

Now, I didn't see last night's episode so this might not tell the full story. But a reasonable explanation of how he had fewer blue chips after calling than before is that you have to put in chips to call.

Re: ESPN faked Set of Tens Laydown *DELETED*
 

Post deleted by Dynasty

Re: ESPN faked Set of Tens Laydown
 

[ QUOTE ]
Uh huh....and Reed actually saying "I folded a set of 10's" after the hand was over must have been a Chris Berman voiceover right? *rolls eyes*

[/ QUOTE ]

So is that why Phil Ivey called him "Tommy I just made the worst Reed ever"?


...From?

NOTRE DAME!





ok ok one more...


"Nobody lies down in front of the wagon and gets crushed over and over quite like Tommy Reed"

Re: ESPN faked Set of Tens Laydown
 

More evidence that ESPN faked this hand.

ESPN is a cable television network that used to show Pro Wrestling.
Pro Wrestling is Fake.
Everything ESPN shows is fake.

Re: ESPN faked Set of Tens Laydown
 

Brilliant!

http://www.guinness.com/NR/rdonlyres..._lbb_grab3.jpg

Re: ESPN faked Set of Tens Laydown
 

The issue with the hands as described last year was that they took the player's words as to what they folded, and then matched up the footage. So the fact that he said it doens't mean much.

Re: ESPN faked Set of Tens Laydown
 

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The issue with the hands as described last year was that they took the player's words as to what they folded, and then matched up the footage. So the fact that he said it doens't mean much.

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yeah, they could have had footage of him claiming to fold the set of TT and then thought: ooh, that will make an interesting hand!

they do have a track record of this stuff, you know.

Re: ESPN faked Set of Tens Laydown
 

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[ QUOTE ]
The issue with the hands as described last year was that they took the player's words as to what they folded, and then matched up the footage. So the fact that he said it doens't mean much.

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yeah, they could have had footage of him claiming to fold the set of TT and then thought: ooh, that will make an interesting hand!

they do have a track record of this stuff, you know.

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There was a hand last year where Josh Arieh nonchalantly laid down two pair to a modest bet from Marcel Luske's set of aces. That hand was almost definitely faked.

Re: ESPN faked Set of Tens Laydown
 

[ QUOTE ]
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The issue with the hands as described last year was that they took the player's words as to what they folded, and then matched up the footage. So the fact that he said it doens't mean much.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah, they could have had footage of him claiming to fold the set of TT and then thought: ooh, that will make an interesting hand!

they do have a track record of this stuff, you know.

[/ QUOTE ]

There was a hand last year where Josh Arieh nonchalantly laid down two pair to a modest bet from Marcel Luske's set of aces. That hand was almost definitely faked.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah, that was probably faked. that was also at a table with no pocket cams, as well.

listen, this TT happened for real. he told Pham and Ivey what he folded and they showed the TT.. ESPN is not going that far to fake hands.

I can see Lisandro's laydown being faked because we never got to see the second T and ESPN never did either..

Re: ESPN faked Set of Tens Laydown
 

It wasn't faked at all! The guy said to Ivey and the others that he had trip 10s, and they didn't believe him [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: ESPN faked Set of Tens Laydown
 

I talked to Tony D during a cash game at the Bike earlier this year, and he confirmed that he did lay down trip Js to Phil Hellmuth as seen on the 2003 ESPN coverage of the Main Event.

I have no idea about Tommy Reed's laydown, other than what I saw on TV. I also would not be surprised if Jeffrey Lisandro's laydown of TT was a misread by the ESPN editors, since it appears they didn't get that good of a look at his cards. However, I don't know if that would qualify as faking a hand or not. They showed us his cards, at least as well as they were visible, and then told us it was TT. Heck, I couldn't even make out one T, let alone both cards.

later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)

Re: ESPN faked Set of Tens Laydown
 

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The issue with the hands as described last year was that they took the player's words as to what they folded, and then matched up the footage. So the fact that he said it doens't mean much.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah, they could have had footage of him claiming to fold the set of TT and then thought: ooh, that will make an interesting hand!

they do have a track record of this stuff, you know.

[/ QUOTE ]

There was a hand last year where Josh Arieh nonchalantly laid down two pair to a modest bet from Marcel Luske's set of aces. That hand was almost definitely faked.

[/ QUOTE ]

this hand wasn't faked. I asked arieh about this hand on fulltilt and he said he thought for 2 minutes or so before laying down his hand. Also, he said that Marcel raised pf (obv) and that the board was K(or Q) A T 9. So he's behind alot of hands right there that Marcel could easily have.

Re: ESPN faked Set of Tens Laydown
 

nice first post

Re: ESPN faked Set of Tens Laydown
 

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nice first post

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Nice 15th post.

Re: ESPN faked Set of Tens Laydown
 

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nice first post

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Nice 15th post.

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Nice 243rd post.

Re: ESPN faked Set of Tens Laydown
 

Are you kidding.

When you're sitting at a table, how often do you hear people saying I folded a set..I folded this, I folded that....blah blah..how often do you think they were telling the truth?????

Re: ESPN faked Set of Tens Laydown
 

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When you're sitting at a table, how often do you hear people saying I folded a set..I folded this, I folded that....blah blah..how often do you think they were telling the truth?????

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Fair enough.

But when you're in your 5th-ever tournament, and you know it will be televised by freakin ESPN, you simply don't turn to one of the best poker players on the face of the Earth and sheepishly say "I think I screwed up. I laid down a set of tens," all the while looking like you're about to projectile vomit, if it DID happen, much less if it didn't.

Watch it again. The guy looks sick at what he has done. That sure looked legit to me.

P.S. Do you really think that ESPN would fake a hand and then ridicule the guy as they did? They were (rightfully) as tough on Reed as I've ever seen them on anybody. Have you ever seen the movie "Quiz Show?" ESPN wouldn't want Reed going all Herbie Stempel on they ass, right?

Re: ESPN faked Set of Tens Laydown
 

Nice...avatar.

Re: ESPN faked Set of Tens Laydown
 

Thanks Greg - I seemed to remember someone confirming this once before, too.

It seems like most of the "faked" hands on the televised tables have turned out, after people actually do some leg work instead of making wild assumptions, to have been accurate. On the other hand, it sounds like the hands that come from the "outer tables" are a completely crapshoot - if we don't see the hands and someone makes a laydown, who knows what they had.

Re: ESPN faked Set of Tens Laydown
 

Nice post, Rush.

Re: ESPN faked Set of Tens Laydown
 

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nice first post

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Nice 15th post.

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Nice 243rd post.

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Nice 269th post.

Re: ESPN faked Set of Tens Laydown
 

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nice first post

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Nice 15th post.

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Nice 269th post.

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Nice 200th post.

Re: ESPN faked Set of Tens Laydown
 

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nice first post

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Nice 15th post.

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Nice 243rd post.

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Nice 269th post.

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Nice 200th post.

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Nice 5th post.

Re: ESPN faked Set of Tens Laydown
 

ok, i know this is the internet and productivity doesn't matter, but that got old after the 3rd quote.

Re: ESPN faked Set of Tens Laydown
 

ESPN did not fake Tommy Reed's laydown, he even discussed his bonehead move directly after with Phil Ivey. If ESPN started faking hands don't you think some players would protest and soon it would become public knowledge that ESPN is fabricating some of it's poker coverage?

Re: ESPN faked Set of Tens Laydown
 

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If ESPN started faking hands don't you think some players would protest and soon it would become public knowledge that ESPN is fabricating some of it's poker coverage?

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Bingo.

Re: ESPN faked Set of Tens Laydown
 

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ok, i know this is the internet and productivity doesn't matter, but that got old after the 3rd quote.

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nice 403rd post

Re: ESPN faked Set of Tens Laydown
 

that's pretty creative, too bad it was over an hr late. that was actually my 400th post.

Re: ESPN faked Set of Tens Laydown
 

[ QUOTE ]
One likely counterargument to this post is that the two stacks of blue chips were actually Phil Ivey's chips (since Phil was sitting to Reed's right). But if you look at the shot of Reed contemplating a call, you can see that Ivey's chips are quite far away from Reed's cards.

[/ QUOTE ]

Since I read this thread before watching the episode, I was watching for this hand. And it's still on TiVo if I need to go back. The chips we see when looking at his cards are clearly Ivey's. I'm going to have to think about this one, but I think that in order to have the depth of field they do on the hole cameras, they are using some sort of fisheye lens. That can distort appearances and distances between objects.

Some photo expert want to take it from here?

Re: ESPN faked Set of Tens Laydown
 

[ QUOTE ]
ESPN did not fake Tommy Reed's laydown, he even discussed his bonehead move directly after with Phil Ivey. If ESPN started faking hands don't you think some players would protest and soon it would become public knowledge that ESPN is fabricating some of it's poker coverage?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, thats why its called a conspiracy and if it weren't for enterprising, intuitive, extremely smart and logical people like the OP we would never find out

Re: ESPN faked Set of Tens Laydown
 

[ QUOTE ]
ESPN wouldn't want Reed going all Herbie Stempel on they ass, right?


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LMAO [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: ESPN faked Set of Tens Laydown
 

[ QUOTE ]
I talked to Tony D during a cash game at the Bike earlier this year, and he confirmed that he did lay down trip Js to Phil Hellmuth as seen on the 2003 ESPN coverage of the Main Event.
later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)

[/ QUOTE ]

Does anyone remember the action on this hand? thanks.

Re: ESPN faked Set of Tens Laydown
 

[ QUOTE ]


Does anyone remember the action on this hand? thanks.

[/ QUOTE ]

T30,000 preflop raise, call, call.
Flop A J x (2 Diamonds) check-check-check
Turn T bet in front of Reed @T60,000 He folds his set of Tens, the QQ calls
River is a blank 67 of diamonds goes all in QQ calls and pats himself on the back.

At least this is pretty close!

Re: ESPN faked Set of Tens Laydown
 

Just watched it. I agree with the guys who said it's not faked, he looked too ashamed at the end.

And the little talk with Ivey, wow. You couldn't have written this.

Re: ESPN faked Set of Tens Laydown
 

[ QUOTE ]
I talked to Tony D during a cash game at the Bike earlier this year, and he confirmed that he did lay down trip Js to Phil Hellmuth as seen on the 2003 ESPN coverage of the Main Event.

[/ QUOTE ]

you mean paul phillips was (gasp) wrong?