Hand from a live game
 

I was on vacation for a week in the middle of nowhere, but the road back home took us through Reno so I stopped in and hunted down a poker room. It's a 3/6 live game with kind of a funny betting structure -- blinds are $1 and $2, but all the betting is normal after that (so a raise preflop makes it 5, bets on the flop are 3, turn 6, etc). Game's pretty loose in general.

I'm in the BB with 7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. 4 people limp, SB folds and I check so it's 5 to the flop for $11.

Flop (5 players - $11): K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

I've been playing tighter than most of these guys, showed down some good hands, and I know that at least 3 of the four players in this hand have noticed (one of them even made a comment earlier). So I go ahead and bet, figuring I'll take one shot and it's an easy fold to a raise. Three people do fold and one person calls (and it's the guy who commented earlier). He's been calling on most flops so far with anything, but folding later streets -- and he actually likes to make "big laydowns" (showing his cards, patting himself on the back, etc).


Turn (2 players - $16): T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

I bet (standard? four-to-a-flush, out of position, etc), he calls.

River(2 players - $28): 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]


Now what? And do we hate the flop/turn bets?

Re: Hand from a live game
 

This is a ridiculously easy bet/fold. If he ever folds anything that splits here and even just 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] and 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] you are making tons of money out of his pocket.

Edit: I'm rethinking here based on his turn call. But I still think a river bet is right. I will post once I decide what I'd do.

Re: Hand from a live game
 

I'd bet and fold to a raise. If he just calls turn your cards over and say "two pair" that'll get you action later.

Re: Hand from a live game
 

hate the flop bet, turn bet is a must at this point, give up on the river.

Re: Hand from a live game
 

I wouldn't bet into that big a field with that board. I'd call an EP bet, raise an LP bet, and fold if it's two to me on the flop.

Like the bet on the turn, and I would also bet on the river, folding to a raise. Give him a chance to make another big laydown.

Re: Hand from a live game
 

[ QUOTE ]
I've been playing tighter than most of these guys, showed down some good hands, and I know that at least 3 of the four players in this hand have noticed (one of them even made a comment earlier). So I go ahead and bet, figuring I'll take one shot and it's an easy fold to a raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a bad bet. The time to shed a 'tight' image is preflop.

Re: Hand from a live game
 

I [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Reno. Actually I [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] the 1/2 blinds. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

I'll up in Tahoe this weekend so I'll have a trip report from the Harvey's Poker Room (it is very nice actually).

Don't really like the flop bet here. The turn bet is a must given what has happened. You have an insta muck to a raise and there is a good chance that he will just toss his hand in right now. Check the river and hope he checks behind.

Brad

Re: Hand from a live game
 

Well, I wasn't trying to 'shed' the image -- I was trying to use it. I'm not sure what you mean by your statement though. Are you saying that, if you think people have noticed that you're playing tightly, you should start raising more marginal hands preflop?

Re: Hand from a live game
 

[ QUOTE ]
Well, I wasn't trying to 'shed' the image -- I was trying to use it. I'm not sure what you mean by your statement though. Are you saying that, if you think people have noticed that you're playing tightly, you should start raising more marginal hands preflop?

[/ QUOTE ]

When people notice you're tight you get no action.

Re: Hand from a live game
 

[ QUOTE ]
Actually I [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] the 1/2 blinds.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, it was interesting. What adjustments do you make in this situation? My first reaction was to think that your implied odds are higher, so it's good to play hands that want to see a cheap flop but can flop big hands (like lower suited connectors and suited one-gap cards, maybe). But I noticed that your odds to draw on the flop were always pretty bad. So if it's, say, 7 to the flop you're getting less than 5:1 to call a flop bet instead of 7:1. Now something like middle pair + a backdoor flush draw doesn't look so good anymore. Hmm...

Re: Hand from a live game
 

[ QUOTE ]
Well, I wasn't trying to 'shed' the image -- I was trying to use it. I'm not sure what you mean by your statement though. Are you saying that, if you think people have noticed that you're playing tightly, you should start raising more marginal hands preflop?

[/ QUOTE ]

If you want to use a tight image, you really want to start preflop. Why? Because that's where most players get their sense that you're tight. If you raise preflop, they are paying attention to *you* and they will think about what *you* might be raising with. ("Uh oh... the tight guy over there raised.")

Once they have a flop, they are more focused on their cards and what *they* have because that's the most useful information to them. ("I've got a gutshot.") For image to work, they need to be thinking about you.

If you think you've got a tight image, start raising hands that you might play anyway, but do it *IN POSITION* and do it with the appropriate type of hand. If you have a multiway pot, raise a multiway hand that you were thinking of limping in with -- maybe a suited ace or K9s. If it's a little short-handed, raise a decent hand shorthanded, like KT or A9. You might be giving up a little bit of EV sometimes, but you get some back by (hopefully) encouraging more action later ("You raised with that?" = they will now assess your raises by a different standard).

You want to shed a tight image. You want to have a LAG image while playing a TAG game. That's the most profitable combination.

Re: Hand from a live game
 

Now what?

Damned if I know. Best looks to me to be: Check, hoping CO doesn't Bet, and Call if he does. Bet/Fold has it's merits also.

[/ QUOTE ]

And do we hate the flop/turn bets?

Yep. On the Flop, Middle Pair 7 No Kicker with a King on board isn't even worth a bet against 4 opponents on a rainbow flop. It's unlikely that noone doesn't have at least one club. A King might not fold either unless some action breaks out. Your drawing terribly thin.

The turn club just makes your predicament worse. Your digging yourself into a hole most of the time here.

Re: Hand from a live game
 

Easy check/fold on the flop. Since you didn't, check/fold the river.

-DeathDonkey

Re: Hand from a live game
 

Yeah, in hindsight I think the flop was definitely the worst-played street. Since most of the players involved seemed capable of folding and I'd shown nothing but good hands, I thought I could scare 'em out. This might've been reasonable with 2 other players or less, but even then it's questionable since the blind structure would've made the pot really tiny compared to my bet.

I thought the river decision was kind of interesting -- I really wanted to bet to give him a reason to fold (and b/c it's the only way I could win) but I decided that since he called on the turn there was no reason for him to fold on the river with the 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] on board. So I checked, he checked behind and showed the 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] and MHING. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]