$109s - Annoying AK Hand
 

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (9 handed) converter

Hero (t925)
MP2 (t1075)
MP3 (t2070)
CO (t925)
Button (t975)
SB (t1040)
BB (t1075)
UTG (t930)
UTG+1 (t985)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls t15, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t50</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 raises to t150</font>, <font color="#666666">5 folds</font>, UTG folds, Hero calls t100.

Flop: (t337.50) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 bets t30</font>, Hero ?

Re: $109s - Annoying AK Hand
 

I would raise 150 more and if he call or raise I'm done.

Re: $109s - Annoying AK Hand
 

Why do you want to play AK HU out of position? Decide if he has AA/KK and push or fold preflop accordingly.

Re: $109s - Annoying AK Hand
 

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Why do you want to play AK HU out of position? Decide if he has AA/KK and push or fold preflop accordingly.

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How is he gonna just "decide" this? Unless he's played with this guy a bunch and he is very predictable, there just isn't enough info yet.

Re: $109s - Annoying AK Hand
 

Why not just call the small flop bet and fold the turn UI to any sizeable bet?

Re: $109s - Annoying AK Hand
 

Ummmm, isn't this an easy raise, even with any two?

The guy is clearly not happy with the flop, and bets weak.

Don't think too much. If you over think why he would min-bet, you will second guess your decisions too quickly.

He showed weakness, so ATTACK. If he shows any resistence, its not hard to get away with.

Why would you do anything but raise here? I dont understand whats so hard about it?

Re: $109s - Annoying AK Hand
 

lol because so many bad players have jj here and say i dont wanna lose him let me bet a little and then someone with AK pays them off here, folding pre isnt so bad and durron's decide if he has AA/KK and push or fold is really bad advice.

Re: $109s - Annoying AK Hand
 

There is ~245 in the pot and you have AK and are HU on a non-scary board.

It is 30 to call (approx. 7:1 pot odds). Do you think that AK is an 8:1 underdog here? Just a thought.

Re: $109s - Annoying AK Hand
 

Well I believe the JJ hypothese or another trip and if we call and get our ace or K, we can't be sure of what to do.
That why I'd prefer to try to get some information by seeing him fold at the flop after my raise.
Yes it's a little tricky.

And preflop, what do you want to say freemoney ?
To fold without any raise ?
Because after the reraise I could'nt fold it.

Re: $109s - Annoying AK Hand
 

ur OOP and if an A or K come off you usually arent going to get paid, i think folding pre is prob best...

Re: $109s - Annoying AK Hand
 

Calls. It would have been one thing if he lead out for 30, but he made that tiny bet when he could have taken a free card.

Re: $109s - Annoying AK Hand
 

Yeah, this is really fcuking annoying. The problem with calling his t30 bet is that if you hit your A or K on the turn you're not at all confident you have the best hand given the PF action. You also would love to get to the river very cheaply (if at all possible) so you can see how this guy goes from a big PF reraise to min betting the flop-it would really tell you a lot about him as a player and would make for great notes. However, the only way to get any real info is to reraise him here 125-150 and give up when he flat calls or pushes.
Oh, and no way I'm flipping a coin (at best!) PF. You have to flat call.
I really hate this hand [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

yabastid

Re: $109s - Annoying AK Hand
 

My normal play is to just fold preflop. On the flop I call.

Re: $109s - Annoying AK Hand
 

I definitely wouldn't call off this much of my stack preflop to the re-raise. I'd either push or fold, and I like folding better here.

Re: $109s - Annoying AK Hand
 

Folding pre definitely crossed my mind, as did raising the flop. There is no way I would ever fold the flop, that's just retarded. I flat called and led the bricked turn for 200, folding to a min-raise. (mostly because I don't think I can lose AK with a 200 raise on the flop, but most guys will fold it to a turn lead with one street to come) Sound about right? I can see calling and check/folding the turn too but that lets his stunned bluff off too easy if he is indeed bluffing.

Anyway I posted this because I get trapped every single time this sort of this happens. This guy reraised me pre, and that board is about as non-threatening as they come. Upon reflection, I *think* Villain has a monster 9 times out of 10 here, making my turn bet pretty bad. Thoughts?

BTW Micro your point is a good one...

Re: $109s - Annoying AK Hand
 

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My normal play is to just fold preflop. On the flop I call.

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Well, getting 2.25 to 1 on a preflop call for less than 20% of your stack with AK and then folding cannot possibly be correct in a short-stack structure tournament.

You know exactly where you are, and he will pay you off the 1/3 of the time you flop your pair (if you play it correctly, and Unarmed would have.)

You can even make this a math problem and just plug in reasonable estimates for how often he will pay you off when you flop TPTK, while subtracting your 100-chip investment the times you miss plus the times he gets your stack when you hit and he makes a set.

Now, you can't call-off half your stack this way preflop... but leaving yourself with 700-800 chips in level 2 is no big deal.

Irieguy

Re: $109s - Annoying AK Hand
 

you can flop a king and lose your stack if he has aces, i dont think you can make simple estimates without knowing opponent, i def think folding preflop is best.

Re: $109s - Annoying AK Hand
 

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ur OOP and if an A or K come off you usually arent going to get paid, i think folding pre is prob best...

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Those were my thoughts. It's only L1.

EDIT: On the lower levels, reraises like this come from AQ+, 99+. Is the same true on the $109s?

Re: $109s - Annoying AK Hand
 

A lot of people are saying fold preflop, which I don't disagree with. But if your opponent is the sort of person who knows you will fold AK preflop to a raise then you might want to push.

But I agree default is to fold.

Re: $109s - Annoying AK Hand
 

i think its pretty impossible for a villian to have that much knowledge of your play or that he is good enough something like this ever comes into play.

Re: $109s - Annoying AK Hand
 

Yeah, so anyway I called preflop. What's the correct line POSTFLOP? [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: $109s - Annoying AK Hand
 

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Yeah, so anyway I called preflop. What's the correct line POSTFLOP? [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

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Kick yourself for not folding or raising preflop and giving yourself a very tough flop decision?

When he bets 30 chips I'm taking the cheap card to see if I can hit a 6 outer.

Re: $109s - Annoying AK Hand
 

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Yeah, so anyway I called preflop. What's the correct line POSTFLOP? [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

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I would have wished I had JJ, and then folded.

Re: $109s - Annoying AK Hand
 

do you intentionally want people to be bad players? pushing ak here is awful...

Re: $109s - Annoying AK Hand
 

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Yeah, so anyway I called preflop. What's the correct line POSTFLOP? [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

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The reraise followed by a minbet is frequently a huge hand from weaker players. However, it's possible that he could be viewing QQ as a huge hand here. I probably call this bet and check on the turn, regardless of whether I hit or miss, figuring he's going to make another small bet to try and draw me in. If I hit an A or a K along the way, I'll check-call the river if it's cheap; I think sometimes this kind of line will end with the opponent pushing on the river, which I'll fold to, but if the price stays modest I'll call down. In these situations I'm generally pretty scared of the monster, but if I can find out what the guy is holding without it being super expensive and with a decent chance of having the best hand, I'll frequently try and do so for future reference.

Re: $109s - Annoying AK Hand
 

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Yeah, so anyway I called preflop. What's the correct line POSTFLOP? [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

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Kick yourself for not folding or raising preflop and giving yourself a very tough flop decision?

When he bets 30 chips I'm taking the cheap card to see if I can hit a 6 outer.

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It's a tough flop decision because he bet 30 frigging chips. Calling a reraise with AK generally makes the flop extremely easy to play. So call flop check/fold mode after, because once I check the turn, the hand is his no matter what he has.

I have to start min betting...

Re: $109s - Annoying AK Hand
 

I just fold PF sometimes, call other times, push once in a while...it depends on the player. What you do used to not matter so much; it's a bigger deal now because people know that reraises are a problem for TAG's and are beginning to like restealing chips, but that's what reads are for.

So anyway, having gotten here, I give him 30 more chips and am done with it on the turn. Note that I would sometimes take this exact same line with aces, except I'd push after his turn raise.

Re: $109s - Annoying AK Hand
 

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So anyway, having gotten here, I give him 30 more chips and am done with it on the turn.

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No matter what? So are you just calling the flop then to give the message that you won't fold to minbets? What if he then bets small again on the turn?

Re: $109s - Annoying AK Hand
 

If he wants to give me odds to draw I don't see a problem but I don't think I've ever seen 2 consecutive minbets.

Re: $109s - Annoying AK Hand
 

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If he wants to give me odds to draw I don't see a problem but I don't think I've ever seen 2 consecutive minbets.

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a) You said you were done with it on the turn. How do you play it if you hit an A or K on the turn? I'm still looking to keep the pot small in this instance, I think, and I might fold to a big river bet.

b) While I agree that two consecutive minbets is rare - though I have seen it from some low-level opponents - I think he'll pretty frequently throw out a bet for 60-90 on the turn.

Re: $109s - Annoying AK Hand
 

I check/call down if I hit (maybe bet the river if the turn is an ace), and go by pot odds on the turn...no real need to be that specific here, just play it by feel.