Look Mom/Dad I won 12K
 

So this thread has been done before plenty of times, but after my recent encounter I figured I'd post about mine anyways. It all started Thursday night. I had a strange itch to play in the Super Thursday tournament(played before, biggest cash was $1750 but I was 60%/40% with a roommate who also entered).

I deposited into PartyPoker as my account was empty since switching to Empire for rakeback. I registered for the tournament and next thing I know I'm at the final table and people are dropping like flies. I ended up busting out 3rd for almost $12k. To this point, my biggest profiting day was about $2K in $400NL ring games.

My parents have seen me watch WSOP on TV a couple times and have seen me reading HOH volume 1 and TPFAP on recent vacations we went on. I never read for pleasure purposes and thought this might help influence my parents that playing poker was OK. My parents also knew I went to Las Vegas and came out +300 on the tables even while running horribly(lost KK to AA twice, for $550 and $600 otherwise it would have been a bit more). My parents were fine with me going to Las Vegas but I could tell they had their concerns. I currently am 22 and living with my parents while finishing up a co-op for school-credit so I can graduate.

Up until this point my parents had no idea that I played poker online. I decided I would tell my parents of my recent win and after telling my mom she was bothered a little bit but more didn't believe the money was actually real. I kept telling her to not be close-minded and she started joking about it a little and I didn't feel horrible about her reactions.

"One down, one to go," I thought. When my dad got home from work I told him "Last night, I played a poker tournament that I paid $22 to qualify for, and out of 959 people I got 3rd and won about $12,000." My dad looked like he didn't even hear me. I waited what felt like 10 seconds and almost repeated myself when my dad said, "I'm not impressed." He then went on to lecture me for 15 minutes making me feel worthless. I explained that it wasn't typical gambling as you're not against the house and how it is a skill game more similar to chess(Which they loved that I played in highschool). He went on to say that chess is well-respected around the world and compared my getting $12k to winning the lottery. This was insulting as I played incredible poker to reach this level and he belittles me while having basically no knowledge of the game. He explains to me how his friends try to get him to play and how he has played a few times and has won almost every time. I explain that the purpose of poker is to make relatively small risks/bets and to make the correct decision on these bets over a long period of time, thus limiting your odds of losing. I tried everything I could to persuade him, even claiming it was just a hobby that happened to be profitable. He retorted by saying that I was wasting my time and that I should be investing this time towards building my future.

I've just won almost $12,000 and the culmination of my studies and hours and hours of work devoted to the game of poker has finally come in a solid $12,000 third-place finish. I played in two tournaments last night, and in both cases went against my gut and tilted out. Lost TT to AQs after calling an all-in preflop in early rounds. In the other tournament busted out overplaying a PP to AA(which I knew was AA but was too stubborn to admit it). Anyhow, I haven't played at all since then and almost feel guilty opening up a poker client.

I don't really know what I'm looking for as far as discussion here, but I guess any advice you could give me whatsoever. I have a BS in Information Technology(coming in a couple months after filling out paperwork) and have a positive future ahead of me. I love the game of poker and since joining twoplustwo and discussing it feel like I am trying to master this complex game as much as possible rather than try and win money. My father is a very well-off doctor, my brother is in law school, and my sister is a doctor as well. I have always considered myself the f***-up in my parents eyes. I had the worst grades in Highschool as I didn't really care. Nowadays I am the family computer guy and my parents enjoy that. I get phonecalls from every member of my family and my aunt's family on a weekly basis and thus have removed my f***-up label IMO. Anyways, I'd really appreciate some similar stories you've encouontered, advice, even ripping a few jokes into me [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Thanks for dealing with the rant,
-Ace

Re: Look Mom/Dad I won 12K
 

another meaningful win and they will be your biggest fans.
(trust me)

nice post, nice win

Re: Look Mom/Dad I won 12K
 

I was in the same boat for the most part. Though my first big score was 48k which may be different. Anyways, you got to show sustained winnings and maybe a 100k year to say that its not a hobby. I quit my job and started renting a two bedroom apartment for myself 6 months after making ten dollars an hour at a grocery store. When you start making more than your parents then a certain degree of understanding is in place. It is no longer a fluke.

Re: Look Mom/Dad I won 12K
 

[ QUOTE ]
another meaningful win and they will be your biggest fans.
(trust me)

[/ QUOTE ]

Did any of you experience this? I almost feel like my parents would be even more upset that I keep playing? I plan on living with my parents through November at which point I will be getting a full-time job outside of my hometown.


[ QUOTE ]
When you start making more than your parents then a certain degree of understanding is in place. It is no longer a fluke.

[/ QUOTE ]

The odds of me making more than my parents are slim-to-none. This is what makes it very difficult for me. My dad is a top-notch physician in a well-paying field. I don't want to mention specific numbers, but replecating this win weekly would be short of this feat.


Thanks for the comments so far,
-Ace

Re: Look Mom/Dad I won 12K
 

Your father is right, you are worthless, and should be ashamed of yourself.

Those sentiments aside, damn nice score, Congrats!

Re: Look Mom/Dad I won 12K
 

Sorry your parents are so negative about your poker wins.

You're 22, I don't know what else to tell you other than move out. My parents have been real cool about the whole poker thing, so it's hard for me to relate (I'm 23 but live out of the house.)

Re: Look Mom/Dad I won 12K
 

A lot of us have been through this krap.

My dad used to grumble every time I would mention my poker playing, and my inlaws gave me the horror story of how my wife's granfather lost a house gambling.

My dad's grumbling finally died down when I was able to make a down payment on a house and pay the closing costs out of my poker money. My father in law shut up after he was helping me file my taxes and saw what I we paying taxes on as gambling income.

Sustained winning will quiet them down, especially if you don't try to do it as a full time job.

Doc

Re: Look Mom/Dad I won 12K
 

Doesn't Helmuth have about the same story?

Anyway, I'd say keep your options open, but also keep in mind that if you want to take a stab at pro poker, now is the time. When you have a mortage, Wife, kids, etc, it is pretty difficult to consider. Once you get on the treadmill of wage slavery, its tricky to get off ;-)

Why not move out? Demonstrate a little independance, and put some pressure on yourself to earn, be it via poker or otherwise. I'm 32, and the best thing I did to salvage a workable relationship with my parents (who had concerns over my ability to earn) was to get out from under them, and eliminate any semblence of financial dependence such that we were on a level playing field.

Enough of that though, great win and lets see some more!

P

Re: Look Mom/Dad I won 12K
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
another meaningful win and they will be your biggest fans.
(trust me)

[/ QUOTE ]

Did any of you experience this? I almost feel like my parents would be even more upset that I keep playing? I plan on living with my parents through November at which point I will be getting a full-time job outside of my hometown.


[ QUOTE ]
When you start making more than your parents then a certain degree of understanding is in place. It is no longer a fluke.

[/ QUOTE ]

The odds of me making more than my parents are slim-to-none. This is what makes it very difficult for me. My dad is a top-notch physician in a well-paying field. I don't want to mention specific numbers, but replecating this win weekly would be short of this feat.


Thanks for the comments so far,
-Ace

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't quit school, and don't let poker get in the way of your serious career plans. Treat it as a hobby and you'll be fine. Just don't tell the parents about it anymore, but don't ask for money.

Re: Look Mom/Dad I won 12K
 

are you anthony michael hall from the breakfast club?

Re: Look Mom/Dad I won 12K
 

[ QUOTE ]
When you start making more than your parents then a certain degree of understanding is in place. It is no longer a fluke.

[/ QUOTE ]

This was the important milestone for me. When I started pulling in more per month then they did combined, I finally got respect.

Before this point, it was "stop wasting your time". Not that I cared what they said, but they didn't approve of it until recently. My mom telling my grandma how I bought my new car when my grandma thought I didn't work must have been a fun conversation... (my grandma is the witchiest woman you could ever imagine)

Re: Look Mom/Dad I won 12K
 

You have to understand that parents who were brought up their whole lives to believe that the only way to do anything positive with your life was go to school and cram out a 9 to 5 job will have no understanding whatsoever of making money through "poker". Poker is associated with gambling, most people don't realize that it IS a game that can be beat (which benefits us since most people dont take the time to learn). And to the original poster, i have a hard time believing your dad makes more than a winning player at the 100/200 limit games or 2000 NL. Just treat the game as a hobby and don't bother trying to explain it to people who are clueless, it will only frustrate you. You can show them all the graphs you want and your consistent winnings over the long haul but in their close mindedness all they will associate poker with is gambling and a waste of money. It's like trying to convince someone whose christian there isnt a god (im not saying there is or isnt). They've already made their mind up on what they believe even though there obviously is no way to know 100% sure if they are right and theres no changing this to them, so don't bother.

Let them grind out the 9 to 5 every day of the week... and to most peoples parents, they arent as fortunate to make what your dad does and even low stakes players can make more than them.

Re: Look Mom/Dad I won 12K
 

I agree with Dave. Keep it a hobby. Don't bring it up to your parents. If you consistantly win and decide to go pro in the future, deal with the issue then.

It is hard enough to handle the monetary swings in this game with out having a family harping on you when you take a negative down swing.


Your Father is concerned because most people lose money playing poker. Being a very successful Doctor, he is most likely extremely bright and set in his opinions.

It will take several years and some huge wins to convince a professional like him your poker playing is worthwhile.

With a history of not caring about grades, you really set yourself up for coming across as irresponsible when you sing the praises of poker.

I am not trying to be mean here.

Good luck in poker, but when you move out drop the guilt and keep it as a hobby.

DD

Re: Look Mom/Dad I won 12K
 

[ QUOTE ]
With a history of not caring about grades, you really set yourself up for coming across as irresponsible when you sing the praises of poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

This was just a highschool thing. I finished college with a 3.2GPA which isn't incredible but was definately solid. I will be living at home till Thanksgiving at which point I plan on moving out and getting a full-time job(my current job is full-time but pay is low as it is for school credit).

My original plan was to play poker for fun up until recently, when I began seeing a somewhat-consistent profit. Once I move out and I'm working full-time, I still plan on playing a bit and if it happens to turn into a supplemental income, so be it.
Thanks again for the response,
-Ace

Re: Look Mom/Dad I won 12K
 

I can relate to the uber-successful parent syndrome.

I need to face facts: It will take a whole lot to change their opinion. They won't truly approve until they see me WIN a MAJOR tournament on TV (e.g. WSOP or WPT). Until then, I'll bring poker up as little as possible (tough when I'm excited about it), and get on with my career.

-ptmusic

Hello,Ace! Start CHARGING UR relatives for UR service.
 

They should be paying u the same wage per HR. that UR Dad is earning.
Open up a computer information business. U've worked hard to earn ur knowledge--now it's time for u to start ripping ur monetary rewards.
*****
If u enjoy poker NEXT TO BREATHING(Roy West),then invest in UR bankroll,continue to study poker, and continue to play.
HappyPokering,
SittingBull

Re: Look Mom/Dad I won 12K
 

I didn't read all the other posts, but anybody else think the OP should see if he could get into his Dad's game?

Probably about the same deal as the judges' game in Rounders... [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Look Mom/Dad I won 12K
 

I have to admit that the way you came out about it makes it sound like gambling. If any of my friends told me that they had entered a $20+$2 tournament and cashed $12k, I would be far from convinced that he or she was a winning player. I'm not saying that you aren't one, but a 550% gain on your investment does sound, to most people, like luck.

The first time I told my parents that I played seriously, I brought it up by saying that over the past year I'd been playing poker online as a hobby in my spare time, and that I'd been turning a modest profit from it. It could be a difference in the parents, but I can easily imagine that if I'd told them your story, I would get something to the degree of, "Don't let that problem get out of hand, son."

Poker, until now, has always had a bad rap. It was completely different in your parents' generation, so keep that in mind too. They are far more likely to be impressed by consistent earnings and independency than a big score.

When my parents ask me how poker is going (more rarely now than they did when they tought it was a joke), I always say its going good, and I never tell them how much I've been playing for or how much I've won. I measure my success by the quality of my play anyway.

Re: Look Mom/Dad I won 12K
 

this problem is real easy to fix, since poker is an around the clock HOBBY just continue with your future man and make time for poker after that. then never mention poker to your parents again, you don't have to try and sell them on it some things people will never understand, they are probably set in their ways about this. you are young and you need something to fall back on and you sound like you come from a smart family so i am assuming you are as well.

keep playing and getting better. nice win and congrats!

Re: Look Mom/Dad I won 12K
 

You are 22. I'm 19 and if my parent's tried to make me feel worthless for winning $10k in a tournament I'd tell them to [censored] off. Seriously, you're a good player making good money-you don't need to justify it to anyone, least of all your parents.

-SmileyEH

Re: Look Mom/Dad I won 12K
 

Yea, I would have told my parents to f- off definitely. My Dad happens to play poker though, so it was never really a problem for me. I just had to say "Don't worry mom" all the time.

A $12K win is great, like other people have said... if he considers it gambling and likens it to you winning the lottery- perhaps he's right. You should repeat the success to prove it wasn't luck. With that said, good luck.

Re: Look Mom/Dad I won 12K
 

Your dad sounds like a close minded, know it all jerk...but it seems that you need his approval. Theres the nub of it.

Bingo

Re: Look Mom/Dad I won 12K
 

Let it be a hobby. Your parents don't know more than you do about playing poker, don't let them fool you into thinking otherwise. Otherwise, don't bring it up. No reason for them to know about the newest hobby you've been playing, unless you're going to get yourself in real trouble, and 2+2ers know what variance is.

No reason for you to need their approval about the latest girl you've been going out with, and this is just another hobby.

Re: Look Mom/Dad I won 12K
 

Get used to people thinking you're a degenerate because you play poker. Your parents won't be the last. What your expereicing goes with the turf. It took my mom three years before she began to respect what I do, but she finally turned around. I guess in the end, its hard for people to argue with long term success.

Don't expect your dad to accept poker until you've shown some long term success. If it comes up in conversation again just tell him that you don't see any point in arguing about it anymore. You intend to prove your position not with words but by succeeding over the long term. That is after all the only real way you can prove your position.

Stu

Re: Look Mom/Dad I won 12K
 

[ QUOTE ]
No reason for you to need their approval about the latest girl you've been going out with, and this is just another hobby.

[/ QUOTE ]

If only I could find a girlfriend who'd also give me $12k...

Re: Look Mom/Dad I won 12K
 

One thing that might change this, is being up front with your folks about playing from the start. My folks had some of the same concerns initially, but I explained to them how it works, and the long term results told them I had a clue. When I finaly made a big score, they were able to understand it a little more, and were generaly happy.

The more you treat poker like it's something bad, and hide it from people, the more they'll see it the same way.

Re: Look Mom/Dad I won 12K
 

[ QUOTE ]
No reason for you to need their approval about the latest girl you've been going out with, and this is just another hobby.

[/ QUOTE ]

Until she becomes a long term winner, then I'm sure they'll want to hear about it.

PS I never tell anyone (specifically non-serious players and non-players) about the $-value of my wins. My goal is to single-handedly remove the association of winning money with playing solid poker.

Re: Look Mom/Dad I won 12K
 

I'm glad I don't have to worry about this since my Dad is the one who taught me how to play. But my dad told me once that he told his father he was going to Vegas to play poker and was told by my Grandfather "Why are you gonna play that? It's all luck, you can't win"

My Dad replies "Dad, I've probably made $50,000 in my lifetime playing poker" (he's not a professional, but he keeps records)


My Grandfather replies "Well, that's just luck, you've just been lucky."

Are you giving away IT skills?
 

I get the impression that you are doing IT work for family and friends for free. I used to have that problem until I printed business cards. When friends and relatives called for IT help, I told them I was now in business and charging $100/hr but would be willing to give them a discount at $50/hr.

Most of the requests for help stopped and that was OK since that was my main goal. But some of them called and were happy to pay my fee. My brother-in-law paid me more than I charged him because he was so grateful for the help. Some even refered me to others and before I knew it, I really was in business as an IT tech.

Re: Look Mom/Dad I won 12K
 

My parents disliked poker until my recent 25k run. Now they are cool with it.

The fact that I was good at many things before it, like chess, helped. When I explained to them that it was like chess or computer strategy games they understood a bit. I've always been very good at math and they think that relates to poker.

The fact that it is on TV has helped alot. They can see these other successful pros so they know it is a game of skill with a luck component.

Thier opinion of your poker playing will probably relate directly to your grades/career success. If you do bad in one of those they will blame poker.

P.S. Try getting him the Theory of Poker. I'm pretty sure that explain the whole concept of +EV and how poker is a beatable game.

Re: Look Mom/Dad I won 12K
 

[ QUOTE ]
The fact that it is on TV has helped alot. They can see these other successful pros so they know it is a game of skill with a luck component.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good thing they don't realize that most of the pros they see on TV are compulsive gamblers.

Re: Look Mom/Dad I won 12K
 

Shhh

Re: Look Mom/Dad I won 12K
 

Why does everyone care so much what their parents think.. The whole baby boom generation is very selfish and closed minded.. You are probably a lot smarter than your father, so why do you need his approval?

If I were you I seperate myself from them. You don't want to be around negative people who crush your hopes and dreams, no matter who they are.. This is YOUR life not theirs, do what you want with it.

Re: Look Mom/Dad I won 12K
 

you obviously care about more than just money. you want respectability and the respect of your family. poker won't give you that and now you know it.

Re: Look Mom/Dad I won 12K
 

tdarko is pretty much correct.

i understand that it can be frustrating to have such a big win, tell your parents about it, and have them think you're a degenerate.
i'm pretty lucky in that regard in that my Dad understands the concept of taking a small advantage, hitting on that advantage over and over again, and squeaking out a profit in the long-run.
My Mom had concerns...but when asked my Dad's opinion was pretty much told "He's smart enough. He'll do okay."

When I won $12.5k in a tournament last Sept EVERYONE in my family was happy for me. Still my largest tourney win to date.
So I can only imagine how I would have felt if the reaction had been the opposite.


I really don't think it has quite so much to do with your age though. I think it is just their misconceptions about playing winning poker and their general set of beliefs.
In other words...if you were 34 years-old (like me) your parents might still react similarly (believe it or not).

I disagree with granny. I'm not so sure that they will come around if you win another big tourney.
But I might be wrong on that one.


Their concerns are somewhat understandable though from people that don't really 'get it'.

Think about my girl-friends' parents for example. They know that their daughter is quite serious about me...a guy who plays poker on the internet for a living.
They like me okay...but they are pretty concerned about the whole issue of 'well, is he going to be doing this 20-30 years from now?'

On top of that...her parents don't speak english so I can't even sit and intelligently explain that I'm usually just grinding things out by playing multi-tables of 5/10 or 10/20 and that I play WAY under my bankroll.
I can't explain any of it.

I think they're gradually getting better with it. And they're happy that their daughter is happy with me.
But can you really blame them??
Even knowing what I do about how one actually CAN pull in decent money at this...I don't even think I would want a daughter of mine to date an internet-poker player (most of whom obviously don't have the discipline).



Anyway - just keep on with your career goals. Play poker on the side and maybe talk to them again on your next big tourney win.
Perhaps if you keep playing ring-games just mention that you do still play poker occasionally and that it's going pretty well....over the past 3 months you have made $40/hour doing it or something like that.
Talking in terms of an 'hourly-rate' helps get the point across better imo then just saying "I'm winning 1.8BB/100 and have made $5k in the past 3 months on the 2/4 tables."

Again...total money made just sounds like a 'big lottery score'.
Referring to you win-rate in terms of 'per-hour' makes it sound much more serious.

Re: Look Mom/Dad I won 12K
 

You don't need your parents' guidance, AceHi. Soon you will learn to trust your instincts. Then you will be invincible.



You should move out and not return their phone calls. When they finally get in touch with you simply tell them you don't need the unsupportive negativity. That will get them right the [censored] in line.

Re: Look Mom/Dad I won 12K
 

Yeah, explainging that you win it in cash games that you play all the time is much better then a tournament. A tournament sounds like one lucky win (which to a certain extent, it is).

Re: Look Mom/Dad I won 12K
 

keep trying to overwhelm them with evidence that it's not simply degenerate gambling. any type of gambling does have a very negative connotation with alot of people, and it's not unusual that this worries your parents. I've convinced my parents that poker is more then just gambling, my father (a shrink) is cool with it, my mother is convinced that A:it's going to spiral out of control B: i'm victimizing people. i'm not worried about A, and i've come to term with B. (Alot of professions involve screwing people out of their money, atleast in poker we're up front about it. I'm a 22 year old college student as well. I like to travel alot. After highschool, my parents stopped paying for my frequent traveling. I upped my poker playing, essentially to pay for my frequent traveling. I only told my parents about the extent of my poker earnings earlier this year after my mother asked me if i was "selling dope" because i'd gone on a couple 10 day vacations to california and costa rica. While there is no reason to expect your parents to support your poker playing, you should not feel guilty, even in the absence of their approval. Keep assuring them you plan on getting a "real job" after school, and let the proverbial chips fall where they may.

Re: Look Mom/Dad I won 12K
 

Well, hey, at least you're not selling dope. ^^

Re: Look Mom/Dad I won 12K
 

[ QUOTE ]
are you anthony michael hall from the breakfast club?

[/ QUOTE ]

lol nh