Two 25/50 QQ hands
 

Hand 1: 6-handed. 7k stacks. I have been playing pretty aggro. Tightish, somewhat aggressive but not overaggro player opens for 150 UTG. His opens range from 125-175 pretty randomly. Caller. I make it 650 in CO w/ black QQ. Opener calls, caller folds.

Flop 2s 8h 9h : Check, I bet 1300, he checkraises all-in for 6400.

Hand 2: About 15 minutes later. 5-handed. 5k stacks. Same guy opens for 125. I make it 425 in SB w/ QsQh. He calls.

Flop 3d 5h 7s : I bet 900, he minraises to 1800. What's your plan? If we know what he had last time (set, flush draw, or pair hand), does that make a difference in your plan?

Re: Two 25/50 QQ hands
 

hey, you're reraising your suited connectors and low pairs preflop occasionally right? i mean, do they have a reason to necessarily put you on big pairs here? that's an important piece i think before commenting on the hand.

Re: Two 25/50 QQ hands
 

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hey, you're reraising your suited connectors and low pairs preflop occasionally right? i mean, do they have a reason to necessarily put you on big pairs here? that's an important piece i think before commenting on the hand.

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While I mix things up to a degree, most players in this game will assume that their opponents will have a big pair (TT+) or AK a large percentage of the time in these spots. Especially when the reraise is OOP. For the purposes of analysis, I think it's safe to say my opponent thinks there's a big chance I have an overpair or AK in both hands.

Re: Two 25/50 QQ hands
 

Hand 1 - My first impression is that this looks like a huge draw. I would call most of the time here, but if you analyse it maybe I should be thinking about folding. You are either flipping to a big draw like AhKh, or losing badly to a set imo. 89 is also a possibility. JT is kind of a possibility but you say he's not overly aggressive.

Hand 2 - I am still not good enough to fold these, hence I push. I guess hand 1 factors in because if he pushed with a hand in 1, I'd imagine he would have done here.

I'm not comfortable laying down hands like these against aggressive opponents short-handed. I would likely play for my stack in both. Maybe this is a leak. Maybe I have it confused and hand 1 is a no-brainer whereas you should think about folding in 2.

edit - I meant to say in my summary that his range in hand 1 is probably a lot wider than I'm making out. There's no reason he couldn't have AA-TT here either. Boo, I dunno.

Re: Two 25/50 QQ hands
 

I think without reads that in hand #1 (assuming opponent is a good player) you could take out a quarter and flip it and be pretty close to optimal. I'd only lean one way or another depending on how passive or agro he is, and what preflop raises signify in this game.

Re: Two 25/50 QQ hands
 

based on your description, i really think hand 1 is a fold. for all the reasons yeti said (though his conclusion was call, lol). it's either way behind or coin flip, IMO.

hand 2 is tough because the board is rainbow... i'm thinking he could have a set, 2 pair, 68 but more likely is either a pair gutshot combo like 67 or a smaller overpair like TT or JJ. in this one i might be a sucker but i'm pushing. i also in general just get very confused by minraises.

Re: Two 25/50 QQ hands
 

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based on your description, i really think hand 1 is a fold. for all the reasons yeti said (though his conclusion was call, lol).

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I told you I hate folding [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Two 25/50 QQ hands
 

i think folding hand 1 is pretty standard.

fim

Re: Two 25/50 QQ hands
 

Actually, everyone should pretty much ignore what I wrote for Hand 1, as I'm 4-tabling and didn't basically pay enough (read : any) attention to preflop.

I agree this should be folded. Begrudgingly.

89/JT are pretty much not options now. Looks like big flush draw or a set. Maybe an overpair, he could easily have AA/KK. Fold.

Re: Two 25/50 QQ hands
 

i think i'm going to start changing my advice when i get shot down by everyone else too. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: Two 25/50 QQ hands
 

Heh, nar, honest guv. I really was paying no attention, and for some reason thought this guy had opened (er, to $650.), and then cr'ed allin on the flop.

Which looks a lot more like a draw than this hand, which smells like a set.

Re: Two 25/50 QQ hands
 

It makes a huge difference if you know what he had. If he came over the top with a set thats reasonable, if he did so with a flush draw as i suspect on the first hand, id be real worried this second hand. He might use the first bluff to set you up here. Either way, i think i fold again here something about the min raise strikes me as genuine strength. he sounds like a tough opponent.

Re: Two 25/50 QQ hands
 

i fold the first. slightly ahead, way behind most of the time I think. unless he would make this play with 1010/JJ, then its very close, but i vote call.

hand #2, I push, but yeah it matters somewhat about the first hand.

Re: Two 25/50 QQ hands
 

on a side note, i'm guessing you folded the first hand or else it's crazy aggro game... i mean if one of you won a 14k pot and are down to 5k 15 min later that would be ridiculous... right?

Re: Two 25/50 QQ hands
 

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on a side note, i'm guessing you folded the first hand or else it's crazy aggro game... i mean if one of you won a 14k pot and are down to 5k 15 min later that would be ridiculous... right?

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it has to be different games. one or both of them would have a good stack. they both started the first hand with 7k, then started the second with 5k.

Re: Two 25/50 QQ hands
 

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on a side note, i'm guessing you folded the first hand or else it's crazy aggro game... i mean if one of you won a 14k pot and are down to 5k 15 min later that would be ridiculous... right?

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if he folded and re-upped, effective stacks for the 2nd hand are 5k; if he called and won and the other guy reloaded, effective stacks are 5k; if he called and lost and he reloaded, effective stacks still 5k.

Re: Two 25/50 QQ hands
 

sure, but he didn't say effective stacks is all.

Re: Two 25/50 QQ hands
 

that's the only relevant measure, no? 5k is the most he could win or lose that hand, so he said 5k stacks.

Re: Two 25/50 QQ hands
 

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sure, but he didn't say effective stacks is all.

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Jeez, he is obviously just trying to keep the results from the first hand unknown.

Re: Two 25/50 QQ hands
 

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Hand 1: 6-handed. 7k stacks. I have been playing pretty aggro. Tightish, somewhat aggressive but not overaggro player opens for 150 UTG. His opens range from 125-175 pretty randomly. Caller. I make it 650 in CO w/ black QQ. Opener calls, caller folds.

Flop 2s 8h 9h : Check, I bet 1300, he checkraises all-in for 6400.

Hand 2: About 15 minutes later. 5-handed. 5k stacks. Same guy opens for 125. I make it 425 in SB w/ QsQh. He calls.

Flop 3d 5h 7s : I bet 900, he minraises to 1800. What's your plan? If we know what he had last time (set, flush draw, or pair hand), does that make a difference in your plan?

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I would tend to put villain in hand #1 on AA, KK, or a big draw. So I would fold, because you're 50/50 or way behind and the raise is sizeable compared to the pot.

In hand #2, if you think you are ahead (and I would tend to think you are, if you folded hand #1; if you called and won #1, I'm not so sure), I think the play is to smooth call and push any turn; pushing the flop lets villain fold some hands which he might fire a second bullet with.

Re: Two 25/50 QQ hands
 

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sure, but he didn't say effective stacks is all.

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Jeez, he is obviously just trying to keep the results from the first hand unknown.

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i like your answer better than mine.

Re: Two 25/50 QQ hands
 

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If we know what he had last time (set, flush draw, or pair hand), does that make a difference in your plan?

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Actually, I think what matters is whether he knew what you had last time.

My first reaction was to fold Hand 1, push Hand 2.

Not wild about the push on Hand 2, since there's a good chance you'll be called if and only if you're beaten. Still, his range of possible hands seems too wide to fold, and playing guessing games out of position on the turn sounds like no fun, so push.

Re: Two 25/50 QQ hands
 

Hand 1: Fold. AA, KK, 98, Set out weight the posibility that he has a draw. his raise is very large for him to have air.

Hand 2: I reraise/push, or call and check/raise turn.

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Hand 1: 6-handed. 7k stacks. I have been playing pretty aggro. Tightish, somewhat aggressive but not overaggro player opens for 150 UTG. His opens range from 125-175 pretty randomly. Caller. I make it 650 in CO w/ black QQ. Opener calls, caller folds.

Flop 2s 8h 9h : Check, I bet 1300, he checkraises all-in for 6400.

Hand 2: About 15 minutes later. 5-handed. 5k stacks. Same guy opens for 125. I make it 425 in SB w/ QsQh. He calls.

Flop 3d 5h 7s : I bet 900, he minraises to 1800. What's your plan? If we know what he had last time (set, flush draw, or pair hand), does that make a difference in your plan?

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Re: Two 25/50 QQ hands
 

hand 1 is iffy... i lean towards call. 2nd is very very dependent on the first hand, with no known information i push.

Results
 

First off, I said 5k in the second hand because that's what the effective stacks were. The actual stacks were 15k and 5k. I guess

And these hands were the oh-so-tricky flipped-role post!

In hand 1, I had 88 and checkraised big to represent the flush draw (which is something everyone in this game is capable of pushing). He called w/ QQ after a long think and I won.

In hand 2, I had 55 and decided that after the first hand, I should try a donkish line since I went big the last time I had a set, plus there aren't that many scary turn cards with that garbage flop. He called the flop raise. He checked the turn, I bet a donky 1500 on the turn and he checkraised all in for 3k or so. My set held up again.

Flopping sets is fun.

Re: Results
 

Given the way that you played the first hand, i love the way you played the second one to sucker him on. Very nicely done.

Re: Results
 

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Flopping sets is fun.

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getting paid off in both spots: even more so.

Re: Results
 

vnh.

I assume if you're him with the QQ you fold?

Re: Results
 

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And these hands were the oh-so-tricky flipped-role post!


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Should have realized this immediately from:

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Tightish, somewhat aggressive but not overaggro player

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[img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Two 25/50 QQ hands
 

Hand 1: Easy call, no? Semi-bluff is too much of a possibility to let this one go isn't it? Thought the fact that you are are at a 5K stack in hand two does not bode well (or maybe you just put the biggest stack, and he has 5K since he had to rebuy after you broke him).

Hand 2: Hmmmm. When I first read this I thought it was a mini c/r, but just a mini raise is not as daunting. I think he most likely has an overpair here, but a set is also a real possibility. How the last hand played out I think would affect my decision. I suppose it is even possible that he has 46s, but that goes a bit against him being tightish. So, he mini raises effectively making the next bet all in. I don't like that one bit. He's either trying to trap you in the hand or he has 88-JJ (maybe A7s). Well, maybe he is trying to take the initiative to push the turn and steal the pot. In any case, the only two lines I see are fold, and call with the intention of check calling the turn (though an A on the turn is really ugly.) If he checks behind on the turn I guess value bet any non A river.

Re: Results
 

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vnh.

I assume if you're him with the QQ you fold?

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I think I get away from the first one, except against certain players who play their draws that way but not their monsters. I feel sick about it, but I think all my money goes in on the second one.

Re: Results
 

So you called 500 with a 7K stack and 950 in the pot (but the possibility of the other guy also calling).

What would you have done if you missed? What if you flop a set but an A or K also hits? Undercards? Something like T32?