Grand Tournament Good/Bad Comments
 

Hi all,

Since the Grand Tournament III is right around the corner we'd like to take the opportunity to ask you all what you think about the overall concept.
Since it differs in many aspects from most other online tournaments, comments from the online playing community are invaluable to us.

Do note that we don't make money off the GT events so there's no need for us to spam it.

Now.

1. Is $10,000 in starting chips and 30 minutes blind levels a good thing online or should that be left for live events?

2. Is running an event over two days (with chip carry-over) online just an added hassle or actually refreshing as it gives players the chance to recouperate?

3. Should a tournament with such a high stacks/blinds ratio still incorporate deals or does that need become obsolete since a general short-stackedness (for lack of a better term) will not really be an issue?

4. Should major online tournaments feature more instant media coverage (commentary, blogging etc) or is the anonymity factor too important?

5. Is $1,000 buy-in general just too hefty for an online tournament or would even $5,000 be doable as long as the setup is the right one?

Any comments would be greatly appreciated an taken into account as we try and do our share in advancing the
frontier of online poker into new, exciting, territory.


C u at the tables!

Tournament Team - PokerRoom.com
Meet Them and Beat Them

Re: Grand Tournament Good/Bad Comments
 

[ QUOTE ]
Hi all,

Since the Grand Tournament III is right around the corner we'd like to take the opportunity to ask you all what you think about the overall concept.
Since it differs in many aspects from most other online tournaments, comments from the online playing community are invaluable to us.

Do note that we don't make money off the GT events so there's no need for us to spam it.

Now.

1. Is $10,000 in starting chips and 30 minutes blind levels a good thing online or should that be left for live events?

Good thing.

2. Is running an event over two days (with chip carry-over) online just an added hassle or actually refreshing as it gives players the chance to recouperate?

Better

3. Should a tournament with such a high stacks/blinds ratio still incorporate deals or does that need become obsolete since a general short-stackedness (for lack of a better term) will not really be an issue?

Deals will always be prevelant when people are playing for such large amounts of money.
4. Should major online tournaments feature more instant media coverage (commentary, blogging etc) or is the anonymity factor too important?

Doesn't matter

5. Is $1,000 buy-in general just too hefty for an online tournament or would even $5,000 be doable as long as the setup is the right one?
5k could probably be done.

Any comments would be greatly appreciated an taken into account as we try and do our share in advancing the
frontier of online poker into new, exciting, territory.


C u at the tables!

Tournament Team - PokerRoom.com
Meet Them and Beat Them

[/ QUOTE ]

Also, you should allow me to change my screen name since it was made like 5 years ago when I used to watch rounders alot.

Re: Grand Tournament Good/Bad Comments
 

Sick, finally an online multi I feel like playing, and Im going to be away.

Re: Grand Tournament Good/Bad Comments
 

It's not my place to get into the age-old Deals / No Deals debate but I do find it perplexing that if surveyed most online tournament players prefer a steep payout structure. Yet the are also in favour of deals.

To me this, especially in an event where chips are so plenty and the blind structure so slow, is a contradiction.

Not making a stand or anything, but I just find it odd that the two opinions coincide.

C u at the tables!

Tournament Team - PokerRoom.com
Meet Them and Beat Them

Re: Grand Tournament Good/Bad Comments
 

I think somewhat flat payout structures are good, but not ridiculously flat ones. Also I like deals to be possible, as it gives you the chance to put people on tilt by refusing to deal [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Grand Tournament Good/Bad Comments
 

or an even better reason for deals....accepting a deal that is +EV for you....but having the intelligence to turn down a deal that is -EV (or even EV if you like your chances against the opponent).


i'm not hyper about NEEDING deals when the pay-out is huge and not flat.
I just like them for those situations where the HUGE stack is willing to take an even 4-way split while I'm sitting on the short-stack and just trying to hang on (this actually DOES happen....it's +EV to have at least SOME CLUE regarding deals).


I've heard good things about these $1000 tourneys on Pokerroom. should check them out sometime (although I wouldn't be playing unless via a satellite entry).


I think the popularity of the big buy-in events on pokerstars for the WCOOP shows that players ARE willing to play higher.

the regular $215 buy-in events are huge.
and the monthly $530 buy-in event there is pretty big too.
and they are featuring a $2500+$100, $2.5-million guaranteed which already has 75 players registered (it runs on Sept 18)
The Sept 11 event is $1000+$50 and already has 64 registered players.



finally - very nice that you are coming directly to 2+2 and seeking feedback. it's interaction with the customers such as this that grabs my interest in a given poker-site as well.

Re: Grand Tournament Good/Bad Comments
 

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2. Is running an event over two days (with chip carry-over) online just an added hassle or actually refreshing as it gives players the chance to recouperate?

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I remember there was a huge scandal when you had the first grand tournament (Omaha) and there was no carry over, everyone started with the starting chip count. That was bad.

Edit: PokerRoom.com corrected my misrecollection of the above, which is wrong.

Re: Grand Tournament Good/Bad Comments
 

Actually the Grand Tournament II (NL Hold'em) was the first tournament to feature carry-over chips and that went flawlessly.

The Grand Tournament III is a copy of that tournament (more or less).

In between we ran a much smaller Grand Omaha event. The chips carried over there as well but a blind structure feature that was suppossed to adjust the blinds to the averge stack size malfunctioned dropping the blinds several levels too far (if my memory suits me correctly).

Rightly so a few short-stacks who gambled late in day 1 was upset by this unknown development. Something we deeply apologized for.


C u at the tables!

Tournament Team - PokerRoom.com
Meet Them and Beat Them

Re: Grand Tournament Good/Bad Comments
 

I dont think that wanting deals as well as a steep payour structure are contradictory.

I dislike flat payout structures b/c too much money is given away to players finishing outside of the final table. I would much rather have more money available to the top 3-5 finishers with the option of deals for a custom payout distribution.

IMO, it provides an avenue to flatten the structure of the final table without having to lessen the prize $ available

Also, if you give me a free entrance, I will wear a pokeroom.com T-shirt during the event.

Re: Grand Tournament Good/Bad Comments
 

[ QUOTE ]
I dont think that wanting deals as well as a steep payour structure are contradictory.

I dislike flat payout structures b/c too much money is given away to players finishing outside of the final table. I would much rather have more money available to the top 3-5 finishers with the option of deals for a custom payout distribution.

IMO, it provides an avenue to flatten the structure of the final table without having to lessen the prize $ available


[/ QUOTE ]

Ok then. Steep as in as favouring final table players but flat as in evening out the gaps between top ten.
This is a definition I've heard before and agree with fully. If more people would comment on this we will most definitely try and incorporate it into our larger buy-in events.

[ QUOTE ]
Also, if you give me a free entrance, I will wear a pokeroom.com T-shirt during the event.

[/ QUOTE ]
Sorry, but we don't actually allow clothes at all during the GT3... [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Tournament Team - PokerRoom.com
Meet Them and Beat Them

Re: Grand Tournament Good/Bad Comments
 

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1. Is $10,000 in starting chips and 30 minutes blind levels a good thing online or should that be left for live events?

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This structure is awesome. More online tourneys should have this structure. My stomach turns as I think that I won't be able to play this Saturday. (Couldn't you have checked my schedule before scheduling this thing? [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img])

[ QUOTE ]
2. Is running an event over two days (with chip carry-over) online just an added hassle or actually refreshing as it gives players the chance to recouperate?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm indifferent to this one.

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3. Should a tournament with such a high stacks/blinds ratio still incorporate deals or does that need become obsolete since a general short-stackedness (for lack of a better term) will not really be an issue?

[/ QUOTE ]

Deals are for wimps. Nonetheless, the money belongs to the players so they should have the option of dealing if they wish.

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4. Should major online tournaments feature more instant media coverage (commentary, blogging etc) or is the anonymity factor too important?

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Also indifferent to this one.

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5. Is $1,000 buy-in general just too hefty for an online tournament or would even $5,000 be doable as long as the setup is the right one?

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The buy-in needs to be *at least* $1000 or it doesn't make sense to block off two days for the event. I'd be happy to play a $5000 event online if the structure is good, and your structure appears to be excellent.

I hope this tourney is a success because I would like to see more in the future (on dates when I can actually play [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]).

Later,
Che

Re: Grand Tournament Good/Bad Comments
 

Do you have an estimate of how many registers your going to recieve for this tournament this weekend?

Re: Grand Tournament Good/Bad Comments
 

[ QUOTE ]
Ok then. Steep as in as favouring final table players but flat as in evening out the gaps between top ten.
This is a definition I've heard before and agree with fully. If more people would comment on this we will most definitely try and incorporate it into our larger buy-in events.

[/ QUOTE ]
Flat(ter) on FT is good, but I also like it somewhat flatter throughout ITM, IF and only IF, ITM starts with a good payout. For example, 4x entry fee.

Or if you want to pay back just a little over the entry fee for a few people, then have the payouts escalate rapidly after that. I do not like flat when it means a large portion of the field makes the money but only the FT makes anything meaningful.

1. Flatter Final Table.
2. Finishing (almost) anywhere In The Money has some real value.
3. Fewer people finish ITM as a consequence of #2.

Re: Grand Tournament Good/Bad Comments
 

Keep in mind that most of the participants (like me) in GT3 will be there through qualifiers. Most will want a
flat(ter) payout structure because of that.

Re: Grand Tournament Good/Bad Comments
 

[ QUOTE ]
Do you have an estimate of how many registers your going to recieve for this tournament this weekend?

[/ QUOTE ]

GTI had about 200 players... GTII had about 500 players... as a projection GTIII will probably be about 750 or more

Re: Grand Tournament Good/Bad Comments
 

Yes , I believe that flatter structures are better for the majority of players. The players on 2+2 would be more likely to want steep structures because of course we all think we are huge professionals, but the recreational player's who get lucky in some satellite will definitely want flatter structures.

Re: Grand Tournament Good/Bad Comments
 

I'd also add that lack of antes is more pronounced in very deep stack tournaments like this one than in regular tournaments you have. Give us antes please. That said, GT2 was perhaps the best online tournament I've ever played, however little that may mean.

Re: Grand Tournament Good/Bad Comments
 

1) It is definitely a good thing. With the added play and impressively deep stacks, this tournament is amazing.

2) I love the idea. It adds a little prestige to making the second day and really makes the tournament into the big deal it should be.

3) I think deals should be allowed. Deals are a great thing for poker (because the standard high % for first tournament structure doesn't really benefit anyone). However, as I'm sure you guys want to see the tournament play out, you could always put in a stipulation like stars does that X amount of money must be left on the table and played for. This allows players to get a fair deal as well as you guys getting full play in the tournament.

4) If you think online poker is still anonymous then you are wrong. Online poker is turning into a celebrity sport, and commentary/blogs are a great idea. Bring em on.

5) $1,000 is not too much. Hell, partypoker gets 2000 players for its 600 buyin, and Stars got like 1700 for their 500 buyin tourney. As long as you run enough satellites for people, and advertise this tournament enough, it could turn in to the biggest event online.

My only comment is that you alter the blind structure to start at 25 50 (if this hasn't already been done). I played in the last tournament and it seemed that the blinds started out TINY and the first hour or so was just pointless.

Great tournament tho guys, keep up the good work (and please do something about those avatars... I hate playing as a granny or as a big boobed broad).

Re: Grand Tournament Good/Bad Comments
 

[ QUOTE ]

5) $1,000 is not too much. Hell, partypoker gets 2000 players for its 600 buyin, and Stars got like 1700 for their 500 buyin tourney. As long as you run enough satellites for people, and advertise this tournament enough, it could turn in to the biggest event online.


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Do we really want this tourny to turn into The last Sunday of the month tournies on Stars and Party Poker. I personally like the smaller field compared to those other guaranteed touraments.

Re: Grand Tournament Good/Bad Comments
 

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[ QUOTE ]

5) $1,000 is not too much. Hell, partypoker gets 2000 players for its 600 buyin, and Stars got like 1700 for their 500 buyin tourney. As long as you run enough satellites for people, and advertise this tournament enough, it could turn in to the biggest event online.


[/ QUOTE ]

Do we really want this tourny to turn into The last Sunday of the month tournies on Stars and Party Poker. I personally like the smaller field compared to those other guaranteed touraments.

[/ QUOTE ]

why?

Re: Grand Tournament Good/Bad Comments
 

Do any of you guys know?

What time day one usually ends at eastern standard time.... If any of you played in the Grand II and could tell me this I would appreciate it.

Re: Grand Tournament Good/Bad Comments
 

[ QUOTE ]
Do any of you guys know?

What time day one usually ends at eastern standard time.... If any of you played in the Grand II and could tell me this I would appreciate it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Day one is scheduled for 6 hours and 30 minutes of play.
With the event starting at 3PM ET that brings us to 9:30PM ET.


Tournament Team - PokerRoom.com
Meet Them and Beat Them

Re: Grand Tournament Good/Bad Comments
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Do you have an estimate of how many registers your going to recieve for this tournament this weekend?

[/ QUOTE ]

GTI had about 200 players... GTII had about 500 players... as a projection GTIII will probably be about 750 or more

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I doubt we will see 750 players in the GT3 due to it being summer and all. The current setup, with no antes and blinds starting so low, also generates so many hours of hours of play that I think a field about as big as last time would be satisfactory.

As we develop the tournament even further we will however see even larger crowds.

But to some extent I do agree with the poster enjoying the fact that not all high-limit events must be 2,000+ player affairs.

Tournament Team - PokerRoom.com
Meet Them and Beat Them

Re: Can You Address This Please?
 

It is commendable that you solicit the opinions and comments of the participants of this forum.

My concern pertains to Pokerroom's tournaments in general and the handling of a disconnected player's (DP) hand. In Pokerroom, a DP's hand in the big blind is still in play and gets folded only if someone bets/raises on the flop or turn. If it is checked around, the DP can win if he has the best hand. If DP is all-in, his hand is in play up to the river regardless of past actions on the flop and turn and again, can win a portion of the pot if he has the best hand at the showdown. In the other sites I play, a DP is given a certain amount of time to be re-connected, otherwise, his hand is automatically folded when it is his turn to act. This is similar to B&M tourneys where an player' hand is folded when he is absent and it is his time to act even if he is in the big blind.

I have brought this to your tech support citing that in your current set up, a DP with a sizable stack near the bubble can cash-in. (I have personally seen this in the past in one of your smaller tourneys.) The reply I got was almost ridiculous citing even the WSOP.

With Pokerroom's initiative to simulate a B&M tourney atmosphere, this is one area that i think should be addressed/remedied immediately.

Re: Grand Tournament Good/Bad Comments
 

There have been some inquiries regarding the blind structure etc.
For those requesting it, the easiest place to find all of the information is in the GT3 Blog.

C u at the tables!

Tournament Team - PokerRoom.com
Meet Them and Beat Them

Re: Can You Address This Please?
 

[ QUOTE ]
With Pokerroom's initiative to simulate a B&M tourney atmosphere, this is one area that i think should be addressed/remedied immediately.

[/ QUOTE ]

Duly noted.

C u at the tables!

Tournament Team - PokerRoom.com
Meet Them and Beat Them

Re: Grand Tournament Good/Bad Comments
 

[ QUOTE ]
Hi all,

Since the Grand Tournament III is right around the corner we'd like to take the opportunity to ask you all what you think about the overall concept.
Since it differs in many aspects from most other online tournaments, comments from the online playing community are invaluable to us.

Do note that we don't make money off the GT events so there's no need for us to spam it. Technically, that isn't true, given the raked satelites, not that it really matters.

Now.

1. Is $10,000 in starting chips and 30 minutes blind levels a good thing online or should that be left for live events? Fantastic. Sure, it takes a little longer, which is why I think it should be reserved for 1K events and up, but a faster tourney with this high of an entry fee would be too much of a crapshoot for the stakes. Good job.

2. Is running an event over two days (with chip carry-over) online just an added hassle or actually refreshing as it gives players the chance to recouperate? I think everyone would agree this works fine on a weekend and is better than a 15 hour + day/night on-day event for with that much on the line.

3. Should a tournament with such a high stacks/blinds ratio still incorporate deals or does that need become obsolete since a general short-stackedness (for lack of a better term) will not really be an issue?
Deals should be the players' option, always.

4. Should major online tournaments feature more instant media coverage (commentary, blogging etc) or is the anonymity factor too important? Why not?

5. Is $1,000 buy-in general just too hefty for an online tournament or would even $5,000 be doable as long as the setup is the right one? I believe there is a 2500 event on one of the other sites (I'm a mac-only user so I only play PR). Personally I think a 5000 event, done right, would be terrific (and a good way to create a smaller field event once the 1000 event gets way larger). How about the same 10000 chips with one-hour levels over three days?

Any comments would be greatly appreciated an taken into account as we try and do our share in advancing the
frontier of online poker into new, exciting, territory.


C u at the tables!

Tournament Team - PokerRoom.com
Meet Them and Beat Them

[/ QUOTE ]

General comment, I like the pokerroom software and games a lot. I have been tempted to find a way to play on your major competitors, because they are larger and have more frequent large buyin tourneys (150's every night for example), but I like the trend the Grand is indicating.

Do you have any thoughts about making some of the weekday tournaments bigger buyin events? I would love if the U.S. Daily was a 100 some days. Also, maybe you could make the last BD of every month a 500+30 or something, or even a 600+40, where people could just use two satellite entries at once to play. Then, you could have a yearend 5K or 10K championship event that you can buy into or win you way into by winning one of the bigger BD's or a Grand, or through satellites. Just a couple thoughts.

Also, is another Grand PLO on the way?

Re: Can You Address This Please?
 

If someone is dumb enough not to throw in a token raise against an "away" big blind, they probably deserve to losethe hand.

Re: Can You Address This Please?
 

It would be nice if I can register for the tournament, lol.

Re: Grand Tournament Good/Bad Comments
 

Hi PokerRoom.com-

Would it be possible to add a time bank and/or increase the time to make a decision on each hand?

Re: Grand Tournament Good/Bad Comments
 

A flatter structure is the way to go for these tourneys with a majority of the field qualifing for it as opposed to direct buyins.

Re: Grand Tournament Good/Bad Comments
 

[ QUOTE ]
Hi PokerRoom.com-

Would it be possible to add a time bank and/or increase the time to make a decision on each hand?

[/ QUOTE ]
As we continue to advance and develop the GT concept further some sort of added timer device will probably be incorporated.
But it needs to compatible with the rest of the GT concept.

It's a bit difficult this time around to predict the number of participants in the GT3 but we may well be looking at 15+ hours of play over two days as it is.

Compared to the WSOP that is nothing, but I don't think WSOP is necessarily the best benchmark to measure it by.

And any form for time bank device or a general increase in action time might add to that considerably.

Also, with so many online players not used to the extra time to contemplate who knows what people would try in order to take advantage of it. And slow things up even further. Believe me. We've seen it...

By this I am not trying to say that a time bank wouldn't improve the GT events even further (because it would) I'm just saying that I think that we are looking beyond that option and see what else could be done to balance the tournament even better in the future. And that, of course, takes some time.

C u at the tables!

Tournament Team - PokerRoom.com
Meet Them and Beat Them

Re: Can You Address This Please?
 

Registration starts at 3PM today.
For a longer reply as to why, when and why not, please check my other reply regarding registration.

For all other GT3 related info check the tournament calendar or the GT3 Blog .

C u at the tables!

Tournament Team - PokerRoom.com
Meet Them and Beat Them

Re: Can You Address This Please?
 

Good work on actually asking poker players what they think. I'd play this, were i ever to have this much time on my hands...

Re: Grand Tournament Good/Bad Comments
 

[ QUOTE ]

Also, with so many online players not used to the extra time to contemplate who knows what people would try in order to take advantage of it. And slow things up even further. Believe me. We've seen it...


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Perhaps the players who only play on PokerRoom are not used to it, but most of the other major sites have this feature, and it really doesn't slow down the tournament all that much except perhaps just before the bubble.

The thing is, in a tournament with a lot of play, some decisions will be extremely difficult and will require perhaps two minutes to decide on the correct action. There are several players on this forum who have already expressed that they will not play in the GT or your other tournaments for the lack of a time bank.

Perhaps you could decrease the amount of time given by the regular timer slightly, and then give the time bank to compensate? Most decisions are very quick, like most preflop folds for example.

Re: Grand Tournament Good/Bad Comments
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Also, with so many online players not used to the extra time to contemplate who knows what people would try in order to take advantage of it. And slow things up even further. Believe me. We've seen it...


[/ QUOTE ]

Perhaps the players who only play on PokerRoom are not used to it, but most of the other major sites have this feature, and it really doesn't slow down the tournament all that much except perhaps just before the bubble.

The thing is, in a tournament with a lot of play, some decisions will be extremely difficult and will require perhaps two minutes to decide on the correct action. There are several players on this forum who have already expressed that they will not play in the GT or your other tournaments for the lack of a time bank.

Perhaps you could decrease the amount of time given by the regular timer slightly, and then give the time bank to compensate? Most decisions are very quick, like most preflop folds for example.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for your input!
I think the reasoning is that with an estimated 16 hours of play it would have to be quite a large time bank.

Of course we could have it reset in between days but I still find that a time bank, although better than nothing, falls a bit short of the overall purpose of allowing players to think EVERY time they have a major decision.
For three minutes if need be.

But thanks to the ongoing debate here I think we might have a solution for how we regard the problem.

A solution hopefully incorporated in time for the GT4.

For PR tournaments in general I think you will find time banks available within too long.

All this input has been great. Now we definitely have something to work with.

C u at the tables!

Tournament Team - PokerRoom.com
Meet Them and Beat Them

Re: Can You Address This Please?
 

You are missing the point. It is not about the donks who fail to recognize and take advantage of the opportunity to play back at DPs. It is the whole concept of how in the world an absent player be given the opportunity to win a hand? Tell me of any other tourneys whether on the net or B&M where this is allowed. BTW, I've seen instances when the DP turned out to really have the best hand.

Pls re-read my post again.

Re: Grand Tournament Good/Bad Comments
 

I am playing (yay!, looking forward to it), dunno if this adds anything to this discussion, but I really want a timebank too

IMO it is a must...

Johan
PS: Great way of getting feedback! Good job asking here!
PS2: I send an e-mail concerning this timebank business before GTII, It shouldn't be too hard to implement. Your programmers little lazy?

Re: Can You Address This Please?
 

ID4, I do not understand your argument.

Suppose I have the nuts on the river, and bet all-in. Then, while my opponent is thinking about whether to call, I lose power and am disconnected.

Surely you aren't saying that I ought to lose all my chips on this hand just because I am "absent".

Re: Grand Tournament Good/Bad Comments
 

What is the payout structure?

Suggestion: have more of this kind of info on your website.