All in with AQs from UTG+1 I get too much action.
 

Hello my 2+2 Mentors!

I'm not sure if my thinking is correct on this hand, please comment.

I've just moved up to the .25/.50 NL game from the .10/.25

I've been finding this table quite profitable. I've bought in for $10 I've just doubled up and then lost a little back.

Reads:VP$IP/PRF/AF

MP2 21.25/11.25/13
MP3 55.26/10.53/1.33
UTG 81.82/36.36/2


Hero 18.75/8.63/2.95




PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (9 handed) converter

MP3 ($11.70)
CO ($51.05)
Button ($45.95)
SB ($44.50)
BB ($19.60)
UTG ($51.70)
Hero ($21.95)
MP1 ($19.50)
MP2 ($129.70)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls $0.50, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $2.5</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 raises to $4.5</font>, MP3 calls $4.50, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, UTG calls $4, Hero calls $2.


Warning bells go off in my head when the MP2 reraises me!

But 2 other players calls so I call for two more dollars.

I'm thinking to myself, "My hand plays well multiplayer since I'm suited and I'm getting good pot odds, but I'm probably not the favorite to win ... Lets see the flop."

Flop: ($18.75) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG bets $5</font>, <font color="#CC3333">

UTG has shown down some really weak hands, I'd like to play heads up against him I see that MP2 (the re-raiser has a Went to SD of 15% so I see if I can push him off that hand. MP3 is kinda loose so I wouldn't mind if he stays in.

So I push all in...

Like it?


Hero raises to $17.45</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 raises to $107.75</font>, MP3 calls $7.20 (All-In), UTG calls $42.20 (All-In).


I didn't want this much action.

Turn: ($198.35) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players, 2 all-in)</font>

River: ($198.35) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players, 2 all-in)</font>

Final Pot: $198.35


comments.

Re: All in with AQs from UTG+1 I get too much action.
 

Multiway or not, I fold this pre-flop. Post-flop, the hand plays itself.

Re: All in with AQs from UTG+1 I get too much action.
 

just push preflop

post flop...with your short stack there is no decision.

Re: All in with AQs from UTG+1 I get too much action.
 

He's not folding a better hand. Just call and hope he folds his KK.

Re: All in with AQs from UTG+1 I get too much action.
 

I think you have to push because you have a short stack, you flopped top pair 2nd best kicker, villains are laggy, and there are a ton of draws on the board. If you really are ahead, you still might get one call from a flush draw, or maybe a straight draw, or maybe a weaker ace.

Calling is bad with that many players behind you and a ton of draws. Folding seems bad because there is a very good chance you are ahead at the point at which you push and your stack is very short relative to the pot size (you have $17.45 with a pot of about a $23). It's only after the call and overcalls to your push that I think you're in a ton of trouble. Oh well, that happens with AQ in EP holding a short stack.

Re: All in with AQs from UTG+1 I get too much action.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Multiway or not, I fold this pre-flop. Post-flop, the hand plays itself.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hi Kongo,

You fold AQs preflop?

Do you mean before or after the re-raise?

If you mean before the re-raise, what are your starting hand requirements AK and high pairs?

If you mean after the preflop raise I figured I didn't have the best hand but I'm getting more than the 8 to 1 so I called.

Re: All in with AQs from UTG+1 I get too much action.
 

[ QUOTE ]
just push preflop

post flop...with your short stack there is no decision.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hi swolfe,

Push preflop?!

That's interesting. I was afraid to get it all in preflop because I reraiser may have me beat already with AK, AA, KK, QQ, JJ. I was calling because I figured I was getting good odds with all the deadmoney from the cold callers.

Can you elaborate about why you would push preflop. I never even considered pushing preflop (I'm a crappy player)

derick

Re: All in with AQs from UTG+1 I get too much action.
 

At a full ring game, I'll fold A-J almost every time UTG unless my table reads make me think it's a profitable hand. Against 9 unknowns, it hits the muck. A-Q, s00ted or not, isn't that far behind...especially at low limits like this. Position is everything. At the low limits, I avoid situations like this like the plague. There are always better spots to get your money in.

Re: All in with AQs from UTG+1 I get too much action.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Push preflop?!

That's interesting. I was afraid to get it all in preflop because I reraiser may have me beat already with AK, AA, KK, QQ, JJ. I was calling because I figured I was getting good odds with all the deadmoney from the cold callers.

Can you elaborate about why you would push preflop. I never even considered pushing preflop (I'm a crappy player)

[/ QUOTE ]

you raised, were minraised, and there were two callers.

the pot is $16 (before your call) with $2 for you to call.

you have less than $20...

to maximize your chance of winning the pot you want to be heads up. if you 3-bet all-in, you may be in a race situation with the minraiser, but i doubt anyone else will call. if everyone folds, you net $13.5.

if minraiser (and only the minraiser) calls, and has an underpair, then you're 48% to win, and would net out roughly $4.5 in EV.

even if there's one other caller with another underpair to you (and they both go to showdown), you're over 33% to win and have a small overlay from the one that folded.

throw in the other caller with a suited connector, and you're still around 30% to win and getting 3:1 on your money.

Re: All in with AQs from UTG+1 I get too much action.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Multiway or not, I fold this pre-flop. Post-flop, the hand plays itself.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hi Kongo,

You fold AQs preflop?

Do you mean before or after the re-raise?

If you mean before the re-raise, what are your starting hand requirements AK and high pairs?

If you mean after the preflop raise I figured I didn't have the best hand but I'm getting more than the 8 to 1 so I called.

[/ QUOTE ]

I fold to the re-raise. What are you hoping to flop here?

Re: All in with AQs from UTG+1 I get too much action.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Multiway or not, I fold this pre-flop. Post-flop, the hand plays itself.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hi Kongo,

You fold AQs preflop?

Do you mean before or after the re-raise?

If you mean before the re-raise, what are your starting hand requirements AK and high pairs?

If you mean after the preflop raise I figured I didn't have the best hand but I'm getting more than the 8 to 1 so I called.

[/ QUOTE ]

I fold to the re-raise. What are you hoping to flop here?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd like a flush draw or an ace or even better a queen. I probably won't win but it only costs $2 to see a pot of over $16.

At worst case I'm against AA which would give me about 13% chance of winning.

VS AK, QQ or KK I'm at least a 30% chance of winning.

So although I probably won't win more than about 30% of the time, I'm getting pot odds of 8 to 1 so I figured it's a clear call.

The first limper UTG has a VP$IP over 80% I put him on ... almost anything, I came into this hand raising $2.50 trying to isolate this guy.

The player with a VP$IP about 50% I put on two high cards and up...
The reraiser with the VP$IP in the low 20's ... I put on AK, AA, KK, QQ, JJ maybe TT, 99...

Re: All in with AQs from UTG+1 I get too much action.
 

buy in the full amount so you can play hands like this right.

Re: All in with AQs from UTG+1 I get too much action.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Push preflop?!

That's interesting. I was afraid to get it all in preflop because I reraiser may have me beat already with AK, AA, KK, QQ, JJ. I was calling because I figured I was getting good odds with all the deadmoney from the cold callers.

Can you elaborate about why you would push preflop. I never even considered pushing preflop (I'm a crappy player)

[/ QUOTE ]

you raised, were minraised, and there were two callers.

the pot is $16 (before your call) with $2 for you to call.

you have less than $20...

to maximize your chance of winning the pot you want to be heads up. if you 3-bet all-in, you may be in a race situation with the minraiser, but i doubt anyone else will call. if everyone folds, you net $13.5.

if minraiser (and only the minraiser) calls, and has an underpair, then you're 48% to win, and would net out roughly $4.5 in EV.

even if there's one other caller with another underpair to you (and they both go to showdown), you're over 33% to win and have a small overlay from the one that folded.

throw in the other caller with a suited connector, and you're still around 30% to win and getting 3:1 on your money.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hi Swolfe,

Thanks for the analysis.

I didn't consider pushing preflop.

I was afraid of the reraiser having AA, AKs, AK, KK, QQ

I'd be about 13% vs AA , 25% vs AKs and something between 30% to 35% for AK, KK, QQ.

So I called and didn't push in. I didn't think he had an underpair.

Post flop I pushed because I figured I had him beat if he had KK or QQ and the calling stations might call enough to make calling profitable.

But now I'm thinking your line of calling the UTG bet post flop makes much more sense because a sane player won't call with any hand I can beat?????

Does this my thinking make any sense???

derick

Re: All in with AQs from UTG+1 I get too much action.
 

[ QUOTE ]
I was afraid of the reraiser having AA, AKs, AK, KK, QQ

[/ QUOTE ]

was this your read? or were you seeing monsters? if this is your read, then the only play is to fold...you don't have enough of a stack to call for implied odds of hitting flush/straight.

i would see the min-reraise as usually being 99-JJ, maybe QQ.

Re: All in with AQs from UTG+1 I get too much action.
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'd be about 13% vs AA , 25% vs AKs and something between 30% to 35% for AK, KK, QQ.

[/ QUOTE ]
I agree...if this is your read, what the hell are you calling for? Hoping the flop comes Q-Q-Q?

Re: All in with AQs from UTG+1 I get too much action.
 

[ QUOTE ]
buy in the full amount so you can play hands like this right.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why would it be an advantage to have the full amount?

I bought in short at this table because the good players have $50+ and the crappy players have $10 to $20.

I think it's a disadvantage to have a big stake when the players who are probably better than me have big stacks

For the most part I try to mix it up with the bad players and avoid the good players at the table.

Also I bought in short because, I'm learing .25/.50 NL and it's less expensive when I make an error. (I make lots of errors although I'm ahead 5bb/100 probably due to short term varriance)

Re: All in with AQs from UTG+1 I get too much action.
 

[ QUOTE ]
if minraiser (and only the minraiser) calls, and has an underpair, then you're 48% to win, and would net out roughly $4.5 in EV.

[/ QUOTE ]

Would you mind punching the numbers, swolfe? I'm not exactly sure how you arrived at +$.45 EV.

Re: All in with AQs from UTG+1 I get too much action.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I was afraid of the reraiser having AA, AKs, AK, KK, QQ

[/ QUOTE ]

was this your read? or were you seeing monsters? if this is your read, then the only play is to fold...you don't have enough of a stack to call for implied odds of hitting flush/straight.

i would see the min-reraise as usually being 99-JJ, maybe QQ.

[/ QUOTE ]


Hi swolfe,


Maybe I was seeing monsters, Min raise seems kinda scarry.



To tell the truth I wasn't really sure what the minraise meant I was confused during this hand. Your call of 99-JJ and prehaps QQ seems perfectly reasonable.

When I pushed all in on the flop I was hoping he had 99-KK.

derick

Re: All in with AQs from UTG+1 I get too much action.
 

results?

Re: All in with AQs from UTG+1 I get too much action.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Would you mind punching the numbers, swolfe? I'm not exactly sure how you arrived at +$4.5 EV.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hero had $21, which would be matched by min-reraiser. limp-folders would have put in 4.5 each. my rough 4.5 was just splitting the pot in half, but the actual number would be (21+21+4.5+4.5)*.48=24.38 and 24.38-21=3.48 net

Re: All in with AQs from UTG+1 I get too much action.
 

Hey Derick,

I agree you should fold to the reraise preflop. There are a couple of reasons for doing so:

1.) Drawing to a flush OOP is difficult to do... you'll rarely be getting the kind of price you need to draw. Also, remember you'll hit exactly 3 more cards of your suit like ~5 or 6% of the time after all the cards are out. One of the things TJ Cloutier wrote in one of his books that I agree with is that you should treat being suited as a little added luxury... not something that should place a lot of emphasis on in deciding whether or not to call a reraise.

2.) You have bad reverse implied odds here. If he's reraising you with KK and an ace flops, you aren't going to win too much. Conversely, if he's reraising you here with KK and a Q flops, you'll probably be paying him off the whole way. At the same time, if he has AK and an ace flops, well, you're kind of in a mess then too, right?

Re: All in with AQs from UTG+1 I get too much action.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Hero had $21, which would be matched by min-reraiser. limp-folders would have put in 4.5 each. my rough 4.5 was just splitting the pot in half, but the actual number would be (21+21+4.5+4.5)*.48=24.38 and 24.38-21=3.48 net

[/ QUOTE ]

Thank you [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

Re: All in with AQs from UTG+1 I get too much action.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'd be about 13% vs AA , 25% vs AKs and something between 30% to 35% for AK, KK, QQ.

[/ QUOTE ]
I agree...if this is your read, what the hell are you calling for? Hoping the flop comes Q-Q-Q?

[/ QUOTE ]

Hi LetYouDown,

I'm calling because it only cost $2 to see a $16 pot. Also remember there is dead money in the pot (I'm simplifying and considering the 80%VP$IP and 50%VP$IP to have almost random cards with little chance of winning)

I probably won't win but I'll win enough times to at least call.

I need to win over 13% of the time for 8 to 1 pot odds to make it +EV right?

So even if he has AA I'm still getting pot odds, right?

By the way, the table was unremarkable 23%VPIP 4%PFR.

Re: All in with AQs from UTG+1 I get too much action.
 

[ QUOTE ]
results?

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: All in with AQs from UTG+1 I get too much action.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Hello my 2+2 Mentors!

I'm not sure if my thinking is correct on this hand, please comment.

I've just moved up to the .25/.50 NL game from the .10/.25

I've been finding this table quite profitable. I've bought in for $10 I've just doubled up and then lost a little back.

Reads:VP$IP/PRF/AF

MP2 21.25/11.25/13
MP3 55.26/10.53/1.33
UTG 81.82/36.36/2


Hero 18.75/8.63/2.95




PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (9 handed) converter

MP3 ($11.70)
CO ($51.05)
Button ($45.95)
SB ($44.50)
BB ($19.60)
UTG ($51.70)
Hero ($21.95)
MP1 ($19.50)
MP2 ($129.70)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls $0.50, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $2.5</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 raises to $4.5</font>, MP3 calls $4.50, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, UTG calls $4, Hero calls $2.


Warning bells go off in my head when the MP2 reraises me!

But 2 other players calls so I call for two more dollars.

I'm thinking to myself, "My hand plays well multiplayer since I'm suited and I'm getting good pot odds, but I'm probably not the favorite to win ... Lets see the flop."

Flop: ($18.75) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG bets $5</font>, <font color="#CC3333">

UTG has shown down some really weak hands, I'd like to play heads up against him I see that MP2 (the re-raiser has a Went to SD of 15% so I see if I can push him off that hand. MP3 is kinda loose so I wouldn't mind if he stays in.

So I push all in...

Like it?


Hero raises to $17.45</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 raises to $107.75</font>, MP3 calls $7.20 (All-In), UTG calls $42.20 (All-In).


I didn't want this much action.

Turn: ($198.35) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players, 2 all-in)</font>

River: ($198.35) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players, 2 all-in)</font>

Final Pot: $198.35


comments.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't have the exact hand history here but...

UTG had 8 javascript:void(0)
[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9 javascript:void(0)
[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

MP3 had ATo

MP2 won with AK


Do you guys think AQs should be mucked in early position?
Would you raise with AQs from UTG+1 like I did to try to isolate a 80%VP$IP who limped in UTG??


Looking back I wonder if calling the preflop min raise was a good idea, I'm getting 8 to 1 pot odds vs about 3 to 1 to beat AK but it's really hard to play postflop (at least for me).

I'm also thinking my push on the flop may have been a big mistake with the MP2 (preflop reraiser) and MP3 still to act.

This hand seems to show me how little about the game I seem to understand.

derick

Re: All in with AQs from UTG+1 I get too much action.
 

Your analysis about pot odds would be correct if the 2 dollars you were calling were your last 2 dollars - the reverse implied odds come into play in a situation like this where you flop an ace but are still behind and don't know it - you then put in 17 more dollars on the flop drawing very thin. If he had KK and you had in fact outflopped him I doubt he is paying off your push - thus your implied odds are much worse than your immediate odds since you are out of position and cannot see his hand

Re: All in with AQs from UTG+1 I get too much action.
 

How did MP2 win with AK? According to what you posted, MP 3 hit runner-runner 10's to make a boat.

Re: All in with AQs from UTG+1 I get too much action.
 

[ QUOTE ]
How did MP2 win with AK? According to what you posted, MP 3 hit runner-runner 10's to make a boat.

[/ QUOTE ]


MP3 only won about $45 of the pot, low stack

Re: All in with AQs from UTG+1 I get too much action.
 

Hi,

Thanks to everyone for your kind replies to my question,

I must admit I'm still a little unclear about the concepts of how to play ace-big out of position.

I just had this very similar hand show up....


I just tried .50/1.00 for the first time tonight!
I've more than doubled my $20 buy in about ten hands ago, by picking off a pure buff and making a continuation bet.

I've been at the table for about 25 hands... so far my VP$IP and My PFR are both 25% !!!! My total aggression factor has been 2.99

My Flop aggression has been 4.61

For the previous 25 or so hands I've been the table bully pushing people off small pots, stealing anties and doubling up by picking off a total bluff.
I didn't plan to play this aggressive, I just got hit with the deck pretty good to let me play like what looks like a bit of a maniac.
I've been doing continuation bluffs and robbing them blind, I haven't shown any real hands down. The table seems to be pretty passive and loose , 27% VP$IP and 4% PFR.

MP2 has shown down K5o, J9s, 93o, 23o
MP2 is 28.57 VP$IP / 5.71 PFR / .75 AF

My read on the BB is Loose passive having him in the pot is +ev.




PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (8 handed) converter

BB ($12.60)
UTG ($15.35)
Hero derick ($49.20)
MP1 ($47.65)
MP2 ($30.70)
CO ($52.45)
Button ($29.10)
SB ($69.95)

Preflop: Hero derick is UTG+1 with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG calls $1, <font color="#CC3333">Hero derick raises to $4</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 raises to $30.7</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, BB calls $11.60 (All-In), UTG folds, Hero derick calls $26.70.

Flop: ($75.50) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players, 1 all-in)</font>

Turn: ($75.50) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players, 1 all-in)</font>

River: ($75.50) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players, 1 all-in)</font>

Final Pot: $75.50


Would you guys have made the call???

Re: All in with AQs from UTG+1 I get too much action.
 

[ QUOTE ]
I just tried .50/1.00 for the first time tonight!
I've more than doubled my $20 buy in about ten hands ago, by picking off a pure buff and making a continuation bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

It sounds like to me you have some serious bankroll management issues.

First you're too scared to buyin the max at a .25/.5 table and now you're playing .5/1? Good lord dude... you really need to settle down and get some bankroll management or else you're going to be dealing cards soon [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: All in with AQs from UTG+1 I get too much action.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I just tried .50/1.00 for the first time tonight!
I've more than doubled my $20 buy in about ten hands ago, by picking off a pure buff and making a continuation bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

It sounds like to me you have some serious bankroll management issues.

First you're too scared to buyin the max at a .25/.5 table and now you're playing .5/1? Good lord dude... you really need to settle down and get some bankroll management or else you're going to be dealing cards soon [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for your advice,

You're right you know, I'm dumb just taking a shot at .5/1 when I have huge holes in my game/understanding. I think I need poker playing skill more than I need bankroll management skill (I have over 40 buyins)

I just saw 50% players seeing the flop (on Stars) on this table and thought I'd take a shot at .5/1.

I buy in the minimum so I can adjust my stack size to that of the weakest players, rather than just buy in for the max. This helps me avoid getting outplayed postflop by the better players if they have big stacks (usually the case with the better players.)

Re: All in with AQs from UTG+1 I get too much action.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Hello my 2+2 Mentors!

I'm not sure if my thinking is correct on this hand, please comment.

I've just moved up to the .25/.50 NL game from the .10/.25

I've been finding this table quite profitable. I've bought in for $10 I've just doubled up and then lost a little back.

Reads:VP$IP/PRF/AF

MP2 21.25/11.25/13
MP3 55.26/10.53/1.33
UTG 81.82/36.36/2


Hero 18.75/8.63/2.95




PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (9 handed) converter

MP3 ($11.70)
CO ($51.05)
Button ($45.95)
SB ($44.50)
BB ($19.60)
UTG ($51.70)
Hero ($21.95)
MP1 ($19.50)
MP2 ($129.70)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls $0.50, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $2.5</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 raises to $4.5</font>, MP3 calls $4.50, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, UTG calls $4, Hero calls $2.


Warning bells go off in my head when the MP2 reraises me!

But 2 other players calls so I call for two more dollars.

I'm thinking to myself, "My hand plays well multiplayer since I'm suited and I'm getting good pot odds, but I'm probably not the favorite to win ... Lets see the flop."

Flop: ($18.75) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG bets $5</font>, <font color="#CC3333">

UTG has shown down some really weak hands, I'd like to play heads up against him I see that MP2 (the re-raiser has a Went to SD of 15% so I see if I can push him off that hand. MP3 is kinda loose so I wouldn't mind if he stays in.

So I push all in...

Like it?


Hero raises to $17.45</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 raises to $107.75</font>, MP3 calls $7.20 (All-In), UTG calls $42.20 (All-In).


I didn't want this much action.

Turn: ($198.35) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players, 2 all-in)</font>

River: ($198.35) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players, 2 all-in)</font>

Final Pot: $198.35


comments.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hello again my 2+2 Mentors,

I was wrong!

Much of the analysis I said earlier was wrong/flawed.

Thanks to you all for pointing this out to me! It took a while for this to sink in.

Working through this hand has given me an epiphany in my NL play.

My epiphany:

I play NL like a sucessful *limit* player.

The decisions I make in this hand are wrong because I'm playing like a good little *limit* player.... bad move!

Things I did wrong in this hand and what I learned!

1. I overvalue my hand and raise with AQs UTG+1 to isolate the weak UTG player.

Early position AQs isn't all that strong in NL. It has immense potential to cost you your stack by making the second best hand to AK.

2. I called the preflop reraise.

Yes I was getting 8 to 1 odds to call as I pointed out but I was getting horrific reverse implied odds. I didn't take this into account. This is more of my *limit* thinking.

3. I overvalued my TPGK hand

Top pair 2nd kicker isn't all that great a hand in NL like it is in limit. Top pair good kicker isn't a hand to play hard with from early position. Certainly not for your whole stack.

4. I played from early position.

Position is much more important in NL than limit. Trying to make moves to isolate weak players is tough from early position. In limit position is worth an extra bet. In NL it's worth an extra bet too, but that bet can be the size of your stack.

5. There are probably other points that I may be missing.

Thank you to all the people who posted such good advice. You guys are great!

derick

P.S. Thanks for being patient with me, I now can see how silly some of my earlier thoughts in this post are.

Re: All in with AQs from UTG+1 I get too much action.
 

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Thanks for your advice,

You're right you know, I'm dumb just taking a shot at .5/1 when I have huge holes in my game/understanding. I think I need poker playing skill more than I need bankroll management skill (I have over 40 buyins)

I just saw 50% players seeing the flop (on Stars) on this table and thought I'd take a shot at .5/1.

I buy in the minimum so I can adjust my stack size to that of the weakest players, rather than just buy in for the max. This helps me avoid getting outplayed postflop by the better players if they have big stacks (usually the case with the better players.)

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I don't have a problem with the 40 buyin thing, but others here might. What I do have a problem with is you not buying in full. Simply put, you're playing scared. You're worried you're going to get outplayed so you put less money on the table and that is playing scared.

If you think you're getting outplayed, move down. There's no shame in that. You crushing some lower level is a lot better than you playing scared at a higher level.

Now I'm going to contradict myself from what I said earlier but now I do have a problem with the 40 buyins. Get that up if you want to jump up levels, so when you do and get outplayed early (or even have a bad swing early), it's a lot easier to digest.

You really handicap yourself with less than max buyins. If you get deep in a hand, you're pretty pot committed early. If you happen across that monster, you're not getting paid nearly enough for it.

Re: All in with AQs from UTG+1 I get too much action.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Thanks for your advice,

You're right you know, I'm dumb just taking a shot at .5/1 when I have huge holes in my game/understanding. I think I need poker playing skill more than I need bankroll management skill (I have over 40 buyins)

I just saw 50% players seeing the flop (on Stars) on this table and thought I'd take a shot at .5/1.

I buy in the minimum so I can adjust my stack size to that of the weakest players, rather than just buy in for the max. This helps me avoid getting outplayed postflop by the better players if they have big stacks (usually the case with the better players.)

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't have a problem with the 40 buyin thing, but others here might. What I do have a problem with is you not buying in full. Simply put, you're playing scared. You're worried you're going to get outplayed so you put less money on the table and that is playing scared.

If you think you're getting outplayed, move down. There's no shame in that. You crushing some lower level is a lot better than you playing scared at a higher level.

Now I'm going to contradict myself from what I said earlier but now I do have a problem with the 40 buyins. Get that up if you want to jump up levels, so when you do and get outplayed early (or even have a bad swing early), it's a lot easier to digest.

You really handicap yourself with less than max buyins. If you get deep in a hand, you're pretty pot committed early. If you happen across that monster, you're not getting paid nearly enough for it.

[/ QUOTE ]

You mean play more than 2 streets before you're all in? :-)

*shudders* :-)


Here's my reasons for buying short, I'm not saying they make up for the handicaps you mention above.


I had been buying in short so I could clear the bonus on Stars (min .25/.50 required to clear bonus quickly) and play with the weak players. Just having better starting requirements is enough to kill weak players while you wait for them to do something really stupid.

Buying in for $10 on the .25/.50 lets me clear the bonus quickly, play weak players who have the same stack size as me, "pass under the radar" of the good players and avoid getting outplayed postflop.

All that being said I'm going to try to buy in for full tonight. I've got to learn to play postflop sometime.

40 buyins may be a little too small for the .50/1 game since I kind of suck. 80 buyins for the .25/.50 game should be enough.

derick