25/50 AA line...
 

I open UTG+2 for 200 with black AA, tilted too loose player who just lost a big pot calls with 1.5k behind, Rock with 5k behind who hasn't played a hand in a while makes it 600 to go, I call, tilted calls.

Flop comes Q44r

I check, planning to go for the check-raise, checked around.

Turn 7

I lead for 700, tilted folds, rock calls.

At this point what range of hands do you put rock on?

River is a T

Hero? How much do you bet here?

Potential rock holdings, AA/KK/QQ/JJ/AK, I can't put him on anything else

In a previous hand, I called a raise from him after someone else with KQs on the button, flop came 953 and I called his 450 bet. the turn was a 3 and I picked up a heart draw, he lead for 800 and I moved in for 2.5k, he thought and folded. So I'm thinking a move in on this board might be called?

I realize this is probably really boring for most of you, I just would like a good number on this river, there is about 3k in the pot, I have about 3k left and he covers...

Re: 25/50 AA line...
 

sweet jesus reraise PF

Re: 25/50 AA line...
 

this is 25/50

Re: 25/50 AA line...
 

doesnt matter what it is checkraising the flop represents aces just as much as reraising pf.

Re: 25/50 AA line...
 

no, checkraising the flop doesn't represent only aces at all.

Re: 25/50 AA line...
 

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doesnt matter what it is checkraising the flop represents aces just as much as reraising pf.

[/ QUOTE ]

I dont care about the short stack and I won't get anymore out of the rock if I reraise pf.

Re: 25/50 AA line...
 

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doesnt matter what it is checkraising the flop represents aces just as much as reraising pf.

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I dont care about the short stack and I won't get anymore out of the rock if I reraise pf.

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are you getting more out of the rock postflop either with him having you beat?

Re: 25/50 AA line...
 

I think you can remove AK as potential holdings. i dont think AK calls your turn bet and some players wouldnt reraise AK PF.

I play aces extremely aggressively and would reraise here. If he folds you picked up 12BB and he doesnt know what you had. if he reraise you you stack him.

also, I lead this flop against the PF aggressor. Its much easier to get away from a hand here on the flop when you c/r him then it is when you lead ane he reraises you.

Re: 25/50 AA line...
 

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I play aces extremely aggressively and would reraise here. If he folds you picked up 12BB and he doesnt know what you had. if he reraise you you stack him.

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You are aware that aces sometimes lose, right?

Re: 25/50 AA line...
 

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I play aces extremely aggressively and would reraise here. If he folds you picked up 12BB and he doesnt know what you had. if he reraise you you stack him.

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You are aware that aces sometimes lose, right?

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of course I do, ok 8/10 times you take his stack. better?

Re: 25/50 AA line...
 

[ QUOTE ]
I open UTG+2 for 200 with black AA, tilted too loose player who just lost a big pot calls with 1.5k behind, Rock with 5k behind who hasn't played a hand in a while makes it 600 to go, I call, tilted calls.

Flop comes Q44r

I check, planning to go for the check-raise, checked around.

Turn 7

I lead for 700, tilted folds, rock calls.

At this point what range of hands do you put rock on?

River is a T

Hero? How much do you bet here?

Potential rock holdings, AA/KK/QQ/JJ/AK, I can't put him on anything else

In a previous hand, I called a raise from him after someone else with KQs on the button, flop came 953 and I called his 450 bet. the turn was a 3 and I picked up a heart draw, he lead for 800 and I moved in for 2.5k, he thought and folded. So I'm thinking a move in on this board might be called?

I realize this is probably really boring for most of you, I just would like a good number on this river, there is about 3k in the pot, I have about 3k left and he covers...

[/ QUOTE ]

I would bet $1500-it seems like a cheap steal after you "come alive" after the flop gets checked around. There's no way he has you on AA right now, so he'll likely pay off w/AQ and JJ and push w/KK.

Re: 25/50 AA line...
 

I dont think a rock would reraise AQ nor pay him off on this board.

I say he has QQ or KK. Im leaning more towards QQ. I think KK bets this flop.

Re: 25/50 AA line...
 

He's tight, but I guess rock is the wrong word. I don't see him ever splash around, but I think he would reraise with position with AKs...AQs Probably not.

Re: 25/50 AA line...
 

I've played 25/50 before, but you'd have to add a few decimals, so my advice might be crappy. Anyway, I think I bet $1800-$2000. I don't want to bet big and get Kings to fold fearing QQ, and I don't want to bet huge into QQ. Kinda acts as a reasonable value bet and a blocker. If tight player raises, I fold.

How would you bet this with Queens?

Re: 25/50 AA line...
 

if you're folding to a large raise, how about check calling a decent sized bet.

Re: 25/50 AA line...
 

did you think of check-calling?

if he has QQ, i don't think there is any way he puts you in given the way you played the hand so far

if he has KK and you check you risk losing value if he checks behind

if he has JJ he might bet if checked and but fold to a bet

Re: 25/50 AA line...
 

the only problem with betting ~2k is he is pot stuck if he raises

Re: 25/50 AA line...
 

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how about check calling a decent sized bet.

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I like this. I doubt so called Rock reraises with less than Queens. Aces are unlikely, Kings are likely, as are Queens. Queens will raise your bet, and I think Kings will bet more often than they call.

Re: 25/50 AA line...
 

Yeah, I didn't really look at stack sizes. I still really don't think you can be potstuck here if this guy reraises. I think it's automuck. I like the check-call of a reasonable amount.

Re: 25/50 AA line...
 

seems like he prob has KK the vast majority of the time here, so bet as much as you think he will call... seems like he could easily get off if you moved in, so i like betting 1200-1500 here to try to squeeze out value.

Re: 25/50 AA line...
 

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seems like he prob has KK the vast majority of the time here

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i would think he would bet this flop with KK

Re: 25/50 AA line...
 

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seems like he prob has KK the vast majority of the time here

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i would think he would bet this flop with KK

[/ QUOTE ]the flop check is screaming KK to me.

Re: 25/50 AA line...
 

I would say both Kings and Queens check this flop. Why would Kings bet?

Re: 25/50 AA line...
 

[ QUOTE ]
I would say both Kings and Queens check this flop. Why would Kings bet?

[/ QUOTE ]

Four aces in the deck.

Re: 25/50 AA line...
 

controlling the pot fearing aces or queens?

it's not a flop i check very often, but it makes sense.

Re: 25/50 AA line...
 

AA KK or QQ. This is a difficult decision. I figure he has at least KK to reraise you like that. QQ from a rock at least to me i wouldnt imagine a raise so high. I bet 2K on the river. At this point there is no getting away. Bet 2K and hope he doesnt have QQ. More times than not your going to be ahead here so bet accordingly....

Re: 25/50 AA line...
 

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AA KK or QQ. This is a difficult decision. I figure he has at least KK to reraise you like that. QQ from a rock at least to me i wouldnt imagine a raise so high. I bet 2K on the river. At this point there is no getting away. Bet 2K and hope he doesnt have QQ. More times than not your going to be ahead here so bet accordingly....

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betting 2000 is the worst advice i've ever heard. if you're betting anywhere close to that, it's all in, but i'm sure you know this.

Re: 25/50 AA line...
 

[ QUOTE ]
I open UTG+2 for 200 with black AA, tilted too loose player who just lost a big pot calls with 1.5k behind, Rock with 5k behind who hasn't played a hand in a while makes it 600 to go, I call, tilted calls.

Flop comes Q44r

I check, planning to go for the check-raise, checked around.

Turn 7

I lead for 700, tilted folds, rock calls.

At this point what range of hands do you put rock on?

River is a T

Hero? How much do you bet here?

Potential rock holdings, AA/KK/QQ/JJ/AK, I can't put him on anything else

In a previous hand, I called a raise from him after someone else with KQs on the button, flop came 953 and I called his 450 bet. the turn was a 3 and I picked up a heart draw, he lead for 800 and I moved in for 2.5k, he thought and folded. So I'm thinking a move in on this board might be called?

I realize this is probably really boring for most of you, I just would like a good number on this river, there is about 3k in the pot, I have about 3k left and he covers...

[/ QUOTE ]

He's got KK, QQ, or the other AA, or AK, but AK's not putting any more money in that pot, so let's ignore it.

Check/call? Bet 1K? I'm torn.

Re: 25/50 AA line...
 

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seems like he prob has KK the vast majority of the time here

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i would think he would bet this flop with KK

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Why? Look at it from his point of view... hero opens UTG and calls 10+% of his stack OOP. If I have KK and the flop comes Q high, I'm not too happy, because I'm losing to AA and QQ and not getting much out of AK. This is very much a way ahead/way behind flop with KK.

Re: 25/50 AA line...
 

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Four aces in the deck.

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I don't understand the point you are trying to make.

Re: 25/50 AA line...
 

Given the board, there's 1 combo of AA out there, 3 combos of QQ, and 6 of KK. So if you think his flop check is just as likely to mean KK as it is QQ, then you gotta plan for the river under the assumption that he has KK. I like betting out 1K and considering a muck if he pushes.

Re: 25/50 AA line...
 

I like checking to induce a bluff. I hate to bet this on the end. If you feel he'll play KK,QQ the same way on the flop then I think this is the best line to take. Unless you have previous knowledge he slow plays monsters, I go with the check call line.

Re: 25/50 AA line...
 

[ QUOTE ]
I like checking to induce a bluff. I hate to bet this on the end. If you feel he'll play KK,QQ the same way on the flop then I think this is the best line to take. Unless you have previous knowledge he slow plays monsters, I go with the check call line.

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what hand is he bluffing with here? a rock didn't call the turn with AK so since we said AA, QQ, KK if hero checks villain is never bluffing. if you really think you will fold to a push and be confident you are beat i like a 1k bet, but since i am never confident i can do that in this situation in this big a pot, i much prefer a push.

Re: 25/50 AA line...
 

When I say bluff I don't mean a complete bluff, more like inducing a bluff from a good hand like JJ, or maybe even AQ? Since he'll bet KK on the river most of the time we just save some money by check/calling instead of having to bet and call a raise for the rest of our stack when he has QQ.

Re: 25/50 AA line...
 

[ QUOTE ]
When I say bluff I don't mean a complete bluff, more like inducing a bluff from a good hand like JJ, or maybe even AQ? Since he'll bet KK on the river most of the time we just save some money by check/calling instead of having to bet and call a raise for the rest of our stack when he has QQ.

[/ QUOTE ]you have obviously not played alot on the net...
if we check and he bets, you might as well fold. he has QQ. period.
i think the chances it will go checkcheck if hero checks it is veryvery high, and that is why we need to bet for value.

Re: 25/50 AA line...
 

I do not think this opponent, nor most, will bet if I check (Unless he has QQ).

Re: 25/50 AA line...
 

I can't see how any bet I make isn't committing on the end given my turn bet, pot size, stack size.

Anyone play the turn different? Check turn, lead river?

KK or QQ has to bet the turn here, doesn't it?

Re: 25/50 AA line...
 

Hi AZK,

It's a problem that by the river you still haven't defined your opponent's holdings.

While rock's call prob narrows his holdings down to KK, QQ, JJ/AA...

Leading the flop / betting more on the turn gives you more information to your opponents holdings. You'll be able to extract more from KK, and lose less to QQ

I think the best play now is to bet an amount so that A) KK will call, B) You can fold to a raise

(and of course I don't play this high)

Re: 25/50 AA line...
 

i really like pushing preflop here.

fim

Re: 25/50 AA line...
 

[ QUOTE ]
I can't see how any bet I make isn't committing on the end given my turn bet, pot size, stack size.

Anyone play the turn different? Check turn, lead river?

KK or QQ has to bet the turn here, doesn't it?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you have to bet the turn at that point.

If you think opponent won't bet KK if you check the river couldn't you lead for 700-900 and fold to a raise? You've got 3K left on the river right?

edit - I only think leading here is good if opponent is truely a rock, betting so weakly and having to fold to a raise leaves you very vulnerable for a nice pot.