Cash Game Tips
 

i am a successful tournament player, but have tried a few nl cash games recently and have found that i do terribly in them... i dont know what it is. Anyone have some good tips on the how i should alter my play when i move from a tournament to a cash game. i play tighter in rings games than in tournaments, but that doesnt seem to be enough to make the switch. suggestions please

Re: Cash Game Tips
 

Stealing the blinds no longer increases your stack by much, so you may need to tone down the aggression without a hand. That's why people can wait around and nut-peddle in low stakes and make money, whereas in a tournament they would blind out if they didn't get great cards.

Re: Cash Game Tips
 

A few points:

1. Being the big stack is nowhere near as important as in Tournament play. You can't bully someone with your stack as they can always buy-in again. The only advanatage is a phsycological one - people think that if you have a big stack you must be a good player.

2. There is no point going all-in with a mediocre hand when short on chips. There is no such thing as a "do or die" situation in cash play.

3. Most people (me included) don't like to let their stack dwindle too much. I generally top-up when I get below 80% of the max buy-in. Pity to lose the chance for a big payoff when you get all-in.

4. You MUST be willing to put your stack at risk more often. That is the only way to make money.

Re: Cash Game Tips
 

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A few points:

1. Being the big stack is nowhere near as important as in Tournament play. You can't bully someone with your stack as they can always buy-in again. The only advanatage is a phsycological one - people think that if you have a big stack you must be a good player.

2. There is no point going all-in with a mediocre hand when short on chips. There is no such thing as a "do or die" situation in cash play.

3. Most people (me included) don't like to let their stack dwindle too much. I generally top-up when I get below 80% of the max buy-in. Pity to lose the chance for a big payoff when you get all-in.

4. You MUST be willing to put your stack at risk more often. That is the only way to make money.

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I agree with all of this except for 4.

You put your chips at risk far more often in tourney's than cash game.

Re: Cash Game Tips
 

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A few points:

1. Being the big stack is nowhere near as important as in Tournament play. You can't bully someone with your stack as they can always buy-in again. The only advanatage is a phsycological one - people think that if you have a big stack you must be a good player.

2. There is no point going all-in with a mediocre hand when short on chips. There is no such thing as a "do or die" situation in cash play.

3. Most people (me included) don't like to let their stack dwindle too much. I generally top-up when I get below 80% of the max buy-in. Pity to lose the chance for a big payoff when you get all-in.

4. You MUST be willing to put your stack at risk more often. That is the only way to make money.

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I agree with all of this except for 4.

You put your chips at risk far more often in tourney's than cash game.

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I think what he's saying is you should take every +EV opportunity, even if its a stack-committing 55/45 coinflip that you wouldn't take in a tourney. Bankroll permitting...

Re: Cash Game Tips
 

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A few points:

1. Being the big stack is nowhere near as important as in Tournament play. You can't bully someone with your stack as they can always buy-in again. The only advanatage is a phsycological one - people think that if you have a big stack you must be a good player.

2. There is no point going all-in with a mediocre hand when short on chips. There is no such thing as a "do or die" situation in cash play.

3. Most people (me included) don't like to let their stack dwindle too much. I generally top-up when I get below 80% of the max buy-in. Pity to lose the chance for a big payoff when you get all-in.

4. You MUST be willing to put your stack at risk more often. That is the only way to make money.

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I agree with all of this except for 4.

You put your chips at risk far more often in tourney's than cash game.

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I think what he's saying is you should take every +EV opportunity, even if its a stack-committing 55/45 coinflip that you wouldn't take in a tourney. Bankroll permitting...

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Yep. that's what I meant.

In a tourney you wouldn't go all-in with the same hands you do in a cash game (except when you are down to desperation status).

Re: Cash Game Tips
 

I still don't really believe in that. At least at low-limit.

I find myself folding the best hand often when the original pot is small and the bettor moves in or whatever. I don't feel the need to "race" for my money at low-limit. Folding the $2 in the pot seems a better use of your time than racing for a $20 pot.

(I know technically this is wrong, but I hate stomaching bad beats and drawouts to low-limit bums), and I would rather build my roll up slowly than +40bb, -60bb, +25bb, -20BB, etc.

But yes, in tourneys there are situations when it makes sense to fold the best hand. (you are 2nd in chips and the chipleader has pushed you all in and you are on the bubble, and you've been playing for 3 days..). That sort of thing.

Re: Cash Game Tips
 

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I still don't really believe in that. At least at low-limit.

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Well I think whether you "believe in that" or not doesnt mean it isnt correct. Sure nut peddling works but you are definitely giving up EV too if thats all you do.

Re: Cash Game Tips
 

I think correctness should be defined by whether a play has positive expecation. If your hand is a %50.0001 favorite to win, and you're facing an all-in bet, then it's correct to call in a cash game. If your opponent sucks-out and beats you, then you can simply re-buy.

This isn't so much a matter of wanting to build your bankroll slowly. If you make negative expecation plays like folding when you're a favorite, your bankroll will decrease rather than increase.

There's also a meta-game question. If people see you fold, you may get bluffed more often, which could cost you more (this is less of a concern in online low-stakes games because opponents might be multi-tabling so may not pay attention to your big laydowns).

There's a lot of variance in these games, and that's something you have to stomach at NLHE. The way to handle this is, in part, to have an adequate size bankroll. There are lots of threads that discuss this issue, but a good rule of thumb is to have about 20 buyins.

Re: Cash Game Tips
 

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If your hand is a %50.0001 favorite to win, and you're facing an all-in bet, then it's correct to call in a cash game.

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Heads is more of a favorite than 50.0001% (over large samples of evidence). I suppose you'd want to flip a coin for large amounts of money?

Re: Cash Game Tips
 

Doing terrible in a way of losing money can always be variance. Doing terrible as in getting all your money in as an underdog is a structural problem.

The most valuable advice: post some hands here that puzzled you. Doesn't matter if you won or lost, it'll help you clarify these situations.

Re: Cash Game Tips
 

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If your hand is a %50.0001 favorite to win, and you're facing an all-in bet, then it's correct to call in a cash game.

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Heads is more of a favorite than 50.0001% (over large samples of evidence). I suppose you'd want to flip a coin for large amounts of money?

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I would, if I had the bankroll for it. A 0.0001% edge has an EV of 10$ for every bet, if you bet $100k each time. Flip a coin 10 times a minute, 60 times an hour, for ten hours each day...

Re: Cash Game Tips
 

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I would, if I had the bankroll for it. A 0.0001% edge has an EV of 10$ for every bet, if you bet $100k each time. Flip a coin 10 times a minute, 60 times an hour, for ten hours each day...

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Haha, you would need an absolutely massive bankroll for that. I think an edge that small (which doesn't exist in poker, so the point is moot) is unimportant. The best play in such a situation would be to choose the option that enhances the image you want to give out.

Re: Cash Game Tips
 

Really?? I'd love to see a link to that.. Always suspected there's gotta be some weight indifference that would make one side more likely than the other.

Re: Cash Game Tips
 

You would need a bankroll that is multiple times larger than Bill Gates net worth to take advantage of an edge that small.

Re: Cash Game Tips
 

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I find myself folding the best hand often when the original pot is small and the bettor moves in or whatever. I don't feel the need to "race" for my money at low-limit. Folding the $2 in the pot seems a better use of your time than racing for a $20 pot.


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This is flawed thinking IMO. You are missing out on a lot of opportunities. You're not neccessarily playing the hand just for $10 or even $20, you should be playing for the opportunity to take someones stack. Many times in the low limits, I've found that people go all in early or pre-flop for a variety of reasons that don't even approach logical (Ax, K7o) I see all kinds of crazy stuff.

If you are folding the best hand very often you're not making the most of you're opportunities. I may be misunderstanding you, but this sounds much too passive for no-limit.

No disrepect intended..

Re: Cash Game Tips
 

It's just a personal preference. It seems like many people on here agree with me (somewhat), in saying that racing for your money would require a bankroll substantially larger than 20X buy-ins. (I agree).

Racing for money at low-limit seems pointless. Especially when jokers nut-peddle so much.

At the higher limits.. say the Big Game.. if your bankroll is 6 Million, then racing for 100K when you are 51 to 49 is mandatory (especially when you're up against Doyle or Johnny).

Sure, it's -EV to fold the (assumed) best hand in a cash game, but I have my reasons.

Re: Cash Game Tips
 

For large amounts of money - no - because there's a good chance I'll run out. For small amounts of money, I'll definitely take even a small guaranteed edge like that. Of course in Hold'em there are rarely situations that close. Typically if you have an edge, it will be at least a few percent.

If you go all in as a favorite in a cash game and your opponent outdraws you, it sucks, but you can always rebuy. In a tournament, you're out. Therefore, there are quite a few scenarios in tournaments where you might consider folding if you think you're in a coinflip situation.

For example, you have top pair on the flop, and you put your opponent on a four-flush and an overcard. He has you covered and pushes all in; if you still have a lot of chips left, it might be worth folding in this situation if calling and losing means an early exit.

Here's another, more convincing, example. Suppose you're playing in a satellite tournement for the main event of the WSOP where the top 6 finishers win a seat into the tournament. There are 7 people remaining and you're in the big blind. It is folded to the button who goes all in. The small blind (who has exactly as many chips as the button) calls. Both players have you covered. You look down and see two red Aces. You're a favorite to win if you called, but it would be a really bad idea to do so. If you fold, it's highly likely (unless there's a chopped pot) that either the small blind or the button will get knocked out and you'll qualify.

I can't think of any analogous situation in a cash game - if you are adequately bankrolled for the game, and have an edge, there's no reason you shouldn't call. If you're worried about the swings, then this isn't a strategic issue, but more likely that you're not comfortable playing for the stakes in question or need to get more used to the nature of no-limit hold'em.

Re: Cash Game Tips
 

At a low limit cash game, buy in for the minimum and move in with any two when facing a raise in front from a good/solid player... be sure to show it down if he folds, or announce your hand afterwards....

do this and even people at low limits think you're a lag....