Bellagio Ruling Question
 

An interesting situation came up when I was playing the 2/5 NL at the Bellagio last night. The rules of the game are that you have to buyin for $200 and you can buy another $200 if you go under $100. I was at about $95, so I took 2 black chips from my pocket and put them on the table inbetween hands.

The next hand, I raised preflop and on the flop. Another player looked at my seemingly small stack (no, I wasn't hiding the blacks, they were on top of my reds) and said "I put you all in," and put a stack of about $125 out. I explained to him that I had him covered and showed him my black chips. He said he couldn't see them and he took his money and said "Ok, then I raise you $50 more." Because I didn't care and was going to muck anyway, I didn't say anything, but what is the ruling in that situation? Does he have to be all in?

Re: Bellagio Ruling Question
 

Interesting question. Most of the time when a player rebuys, he gets his chips from the dealer, and the other players can take note of that, and know you have more chips. If you just took them out of your pocket, and didn't inform the dealer, i'm not sure if you chips are in play. However, it is a player's responsibility to be aware of the others chip stacks. Maybe a dealer could give you a ruling on this one.

Re: Bellagio Ruling Question
 

Other guy's an idiot for not asking you to count your stack before putting you all in. Ruling should be based on that.

Re: Bellagio Ruling Question
 

Did you quietly add your chips to your stack, without anyone seeing? Was the dealer aware of that?

Re: Bellagio Ruling Question
 

I didn't inform the dealer, but I wasn't being deceptive either. My chips are definetly in play because I am allowed to add chips inbetween hands. The question isn't wether or not the chips count, but if the other player has to be all in when he verbally said "I put you all in" with less chips than I had.

Re: Bellagio Ruling Question
 

We had a home game where we'd run out of chips and we simply wrote high denominations onto cheap white plastic chips and used them. One player had only a few stacks of white chips in front of him (25cents) but in with them were about $100 worth of the written on kind of white chips.
So of course, one player with about $50 puts this guy all in because he thought he only had $10 in front of him, but turned out he was covered and lost it all.

What should happen here? In both these situations I think the player that is being put all in should be polite to say 'I'm not sure you're aware I have you covered', but after that you're gonna have to call a houseman or have someone settle what the action should be. The player betting can't just pull back his bet and change it.
And damnit the player should ask for a stack to be counted before he puts someone all in, it would save some serious problems.

Re: Bellagio Ruling Question
 

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but if the other player has to be all in when he verbally said "I put you all in" with less chips than I had.

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It is clear that he does not understand the size of your stack. In a case of a gross misunderstanding a player can correct their action if nobody has acted on their error.

Re: Bellagio Ruling Question
 

IF your chips are in play, I think the other player is all in.

I'm not sure whether your chips are in play if you haven't informed the dealer.

The real problem is that someone tries to sneak in chips when they aren't below the rebuy level (whethe intentionally or through error).

Re: Bellagio Ruling Question
 

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but if the other player has to be all in when he verbally said "I put you all in" with less chips than I had.

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It is clear that he does not understand the size of your stack. In a case of a gross misunderstanding a player can correct their action if nobody has acted on their error. 000

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i would agree here - anybody have a similar situation enforced in a cardroom??

Re: Bellagio Ruling Question
 

i play 2/5 live regularly and at the casino i play at a verbal declaration is binding. it is the players responsibility to ask you or the dealer for a count. i have seen this happen often and the verbal "all in" has always been enforced

Re: Bellagio Ruling Question
 

I have worked a few places on the floor and was quoting what I have ruled.

Re: Bellagio Ruling Question
 

the chips/cash would have to be hidden on purpose or in some other reasonably deceptive way to not count, such as under a rack, under a napkin, hidden in a stack behind other stacks or such, in a case like that those chips would not generally be allowed to play unless the player moving all in wanted them to

Re: Bellagio Ruling Question
 

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Interesting question. Most of the time when a player rebuys, he gets his chips from the dealer, and the other players can take note of that, and know you have more chips. If you just took them out of your pocket, and didn't inform the dealer, i'm not sure if you chips are in play. However, it is a player's responsibility to be aware of the others chip stacks. Maybe a dealer could give you a ruling on this one.

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in 90% of casinos his chips only have to be on the table before the hand is dealt to be considered to be in play... same ruling applies to cash if it is on the table before the deal, it can be used to buy chips or be used as chips during the hand. some may consider your move an angle-shoot although you clearly had no intentions of doing so.

i say he is all-in.

Re: Bellagio Ruling Question
 

the guy who put you all in is definately an idiot because there is a difference between 19 red chips and 2 black chips if you didn't have the blacks sitting behind. if he couldn't see all your chips he should have just asked for a count.

Re: Bellagio Ruling Question
 

Of course his bet is binding. Verbal action in turn. The only mildly interesting questino is do your chips play, I'm pretty sure they do.

Re: Bellagio Ruling Question
 

Yes, my chips definetly do count in play. It was not even the first hand I put the black chips in. And they were ON TOP of my stack, not hidden.