Big Pair, 3 opponents.. Wimpy 6th street check?
 

I don't think much of my opponent on my left.

Advice on 4th, 6th and 7th street fold appreciated.


7 Card Stud High ($20/$40), Ante $2, Bring-In $5 (hand converter)

3rd Street - (0.70 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 2: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___brings-in___folds
Hero: K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___completes
Seat 4: xx xx 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 6: xx xx 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 7: xx xx 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 8: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls

4th Street - (4.95 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls___calls
Hero: K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___bets___raises
Seat 4: xx xx 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___raises___calls
Seat 8: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___folds

5th Street - (6.98 BB)

Seat 1: xx xx 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___calls
Hero: K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___bets
Seat 4: xx xx 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls

6th Street - (9.98 BB)

Seat 1: xx xx 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___checks
Hero: K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___checks
Seat 4: xx xx 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___checks

River - (9.98 BB)

Seat 1: xx xx 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] xx___bets
Hero: K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 4: xx xx 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] xx___checks___calls

Total pot: (11.98 BB)


Beer$$

Re: Big Pair, 3 opponents.. Wimpy 6th street check?
 

Honestly, I can’t figure this one out.

You catch a scary suited card on 4th and are raised. The guy (who you don’t think much of) just caught a ten - but you also caught one. What the hell is he doing? What the hell is seat 1 doing?? No idea.
I like the 3-bet.

Dunno about 6th… Your cards are somewhat dead, so checking seems okay.

I guess the fold on the river is okay too.

I'm drunk.

Re: Big Pair, 3 opponents.. Wimpy 6th street check?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think much of my opponent on my left.

[/ QUOTE ]

Then why are you checking 6th?

River is either Raise or Fold.. I don't have a problem with the fold. ( especially since 6th was checked )

CJ

P.S. - 4th street was played proper also [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Big Pair, 3 opponents.. Wimpy 6th street check?
 

[ QUOTE ]

River is either Raise or Fold.. I don't have a problem with the fold. ( especially since 6th was checked )

CJ



[/ QUOTE ]

Do you make this play a lot?

Re: Big Pair, 3 opponents.. Wimpy 6th street check?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Do you make this play a lot?

[/ QUOTE ]

If I feel the situation is correct.. and usually when I am playing bigger games.

CJ

Re: Big Pair, 3 opponents.. Wimpy 6th street check?
 

I think your 6th street check is clearly correct. Run a couple sims. You are rarely ahead. Granted I'm assuming someone already has 2 small pair. (99TT)

I think the check from the player recieving the Ace on 6th is a little suspicious. Most would bet that card, even if they didn't have the Ace. It would be very hard to raise the player who just spiked the Ace, unless you have him badly beaten. I'm guessing when a 20/40 player checks here, he is looking for the check raise...(or he should be playing with me in 2/4)

Re: Big Pair, 3 opponents.. Wimpy 6th street check?
 

Honestly, you played this hand beautifuly. I'm glad to see you were smart enough to check behind on sixth after he caught that live ace. If I'm player 4 look for me to hold an ace underneath a good portion of the time with (9 A) 9 or (A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 10 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ) 9 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. Getting check raised here would really, truly, definitely, no doubt, suck, big time. Even if the ace didnt hit him, theres a fair chance you're behind to two pair here. Well played.


Mike Emery

Re: Big Pair, 3 opponents.. Wimpy 6th street check?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Granted I'm assuming someone already has 2 small pair. (99TT)


[/ QUOTE ]

Why assume that? Could easily have just a straight draw or just one pair!

Look at the boards, our hero caught a card that could have easily removed one opponent with a bet ( which is what you want )

[ QUOTE ]
Most would bet that card, even if they didn't have the Ace.

[/ QUOTE ]

No..

Do you always slow down when someone catches an Ace on 6th? In your 2-4 game I would worry about it more, not $20-40. Most reasonable $20-40 players wont stay in till 6th ( multi-way ) trying to spike an Ace. They would have been out by 5th.

I actually don't mean to sound too harsh, cause I am not too against checking in that spot.. I just don't like it with the boards / action in this instance.

CJ

Re: Big Pair, 3 opponents.. Wimpy 6th street check?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Most reasonable $20-40 players wont stay in till 6th ( multi-way ) trying to spike an Ace. They would have been out by 5th.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wouldn't most 20/40 player realizes that it would be very rare to get raised after you hit this card. The guy who got the Ace did already show some aggression....at a pretty wierd time.


I don't always slow down. But the combination of the wierd raise on 4th (which could be a 2 pair or an attempt to get a free card on 5th with a hand like 9A9T). Makes me want to check here. I don't think a straight draw is too likely because A :: Beer completed before the action hit this player and B :: the 4th street raise seems to want to kick people out, not keep the pot multiway, which I think the draw would want...right?

My basis for slowing down is that I don't think a straight draw likely. This means that the remaining hands I can put the opponent on seem to augue against raising.

But I'm not exactly sure I can make the assumptions I did about a bad 20/40 player. Just how bad is a bad 20/40 player?

Re: Big Pair, 3 opponents.. Wimpy 6th street check?
 

Hello,

Like I said originally.. I am not that against checking 6th.. but hero caught the 5 of hearts, which gave him a three flush on board that was also another opponents doorcard. If he can get just one opponent to fold.. It is worth the one bet.. If he is check-raised, well then you have another decision.

To me, that raise on 4th screams NON two pair, cause the 2-pair hand is gonna wait till 5th ,cause THAT raise will get it heads-up. The raiser could have started with 9-10-J or something, and added a pair to his three straight. Raiser could of hade pocket JAcks or Queens. There are alot of possibilities. ( This is usually info you pick up by closely watching your opponents play throught the session. )

[ QUOTE ]
Just how bad is a bad 20/40 player?


[/ QUOTE ]

I had the pleasure last year of playing a $20-40 session with THREE gentlemen that had never played stud before. I took about $2500 off them in 2 1/2 hours. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

CJ

Re: Big Pair, 3 opponents.. Wimpy 6th street check?
 

4th street is a definete bet to drive out as many low hands as you can and ideally get heads up against a hand going only for low.

On 5th street you have nothing but one pair with no possible low draw Your problem with seat 1 is a possible straight draw (4,6),5,7 and low draw
Your problem with Seat 4 is a possible diamond flush or straight draw or high Pair AA,KK(Why is he starting with a 9)
At this stage you are not necessarily a favorite for high and you cannot draw to the low. Also you are in the middle position of two possible raising hands one going for low and one for high. Your best option is what you did crying calls trying to get trips or two pair.

On the river you had no option but to fold. Seat 1 looks to have the low sewn up. And has a possible straight for high.

Seat 4 may have 2 pair ,trips etc and seems to be going for high. If you call seat 1's raise there is chance of seat 4 raising, if seat 4 raises you have probably lost the high and had to pay two etra big bets.

Your fold on 7th is correct. Relooking at 5th street we see in retrospect what the correct play is, which is to check the low hand and not to raise. Instead delay raising to 6th street whan you have made at least 2 pair. Your raise on 5th street is unlikely to chase out one of the hands.

Re: Big Pair, 3 opponents.. Wimpy 6th street check?
 

not hilo

Re: Big Pair, 3 opponents.. Wimpy 6th street check?
 

[ QUOTE ]
not hilo

[/ QUOTE ]

Anyone else think Seat 1 is at the wrong table? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Kidding.

Re: Big Pair, 3 opponents.. Wimpy 6th street check?
 

I don't think the way you played this hand is terrible, but I would strongly consider betting 6th and then checking 7th (unless I made trips). If you get raised by the ace on 6th, you can happily fold IMHO. (If the other guy checkraises 6th you'll have a judgement call. If he could have two smaller pair, keep playing.) Betting 6th prevents a lot of icky situations on 7th (like if you actually make 2 pair, but then there is a bet and call or even bet and raise), and occasionally both opponents will just fold because you could have a flush. If only one opponent folds, you're still somewhat happy, and you'll almost always get the free showdown.