What kinds of swings can one expect on the Party 5-10 6max?
 

I'm wondering how bad the variance is on those games. Any advice? What should my BR be ideally?

Thanks.

~ Tilts

Re: What kinds of swings can one expect on the Party 5-10 6max?
 

5k

Re: What kinds of swings can one expect on the Party 5-10 6max?
 

5K is sound. People have reported losing 200BBs in certain, long sessions, but my worst is 120BBs. GL and I hope you don't hate your life after playing 6max for a whle.

Re: What kinds of swings can one expect on the Party 5-10 6max?
 

$5k minimum. I like to have $6k or more.

Re: What kinds of swings can one expect on the Party 5-10 6max?
 

You can play with 350-400BB and the understanding that you will move down to 3/6 if your bankroll hits something like 200BB-250BB (depending on your comfort level with large dollar losses). This should be a safe alternative strategy to 500BB if you play reasonably well.

Re: What kinds of swings can one expect on the Party 5-10 6max?
 

I'd want at least 8K. The psychological effect of losing 1/2 of your bankroll can really affect your play. Here is a graph of my last 10K hands if you want to get a feel for how schizophrenic the game is.

Re: What kinds of swings can one expect on the Party 5-10 6max?
 

[ QUOTE ]
5K is sound. People have reported losing 200BBs in certain, long sessions, but my worst is 120BBs.

[/ QUOTE ]

Short is much more brutal than full. I've had 410 BB downswings. I'd take shots with 500 bets. It takes time to adjust.

Krishan

Re: What kinds of swings can one expect on the Party 5-10 6max?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'm wondering how bad the variance is on those games. Any advice? What should my BR be ideally?

Thanks.

~ Tilts

[/ QUOTE ]

This depends on your standard deviation and your overall expectation. More so dependent on the stanard deviation for short term results. Without these two numbers, you won't be able to derive a useful answer to your question.

Re: What kinds of swings can one expect on the Party 5-10 6max?
 

I have had variance of -50bbs in under ten minutes and sometimes I will make +50bbs in under ten mintues.

Re: What kinds of swings can one expect on the Party 5-10 6max?
 

Wow, nice work mungpo.

Re: What kinds of swings can one expect on the Party 5-10 6max?
 

I was playing 5/10 this morning. My first 300 hands I dropped over 70BB. Over the next 600 hands I made 140BB. Neither swing was very impressive in terms of what I've experienced before.

Re: What kinds of swings can one expect on the Party 5-10 6max?
 

Dont listen to all this. 300BB is very sufficient if you are a good player. The play is very weak passive and if you have decent reading skills you will probably ask what kinda swings is expected at 10/20 in a month. Just set yourself a rule that if you hit 200BB you'll move down again and try later once you have 300BB.

Re: What kinds of swings can one expect on the Party 5-10 6max?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Dont listen to all this. 300BB is very sufficient if you are a good player. The play is very weak passive and if you have decent reading skills you will probably ask what kinda swings is expected at 10/20 in a month. Just set yourself a rule that if you hit 200BB you'll move down again and try later once you have 300BB.

[/ QUOTE ]

so you expect him to play 5/10 for about an hour?

peace

john nickle

Re: What kinds of swings can one expect on the Party 5-10 6max?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Dont listen to all this. 300BB is very sufficient if you are a good player. The play is very weak passive and if you have decent reading skills you will probably ask what kinda swings is expected at 10/20 in a month. Just set yourself a rule that if you hit 200BB you'll move down again and try later once you have 300BB.

[/ QUOTE ]

so you expect him to play 5/10 for about an hour?

peace

john nickle

[/ QUOTE ]

This coming from the man playing in the kiddy pool of $3/6 still? [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Man, I'm going to do anything I can to get at you, cause I'm still mad you jacked my bed AND had the balls to leave In & Out UNEATEN on the night stand... then to top it off, it was too damn cold for me to eat!! The inhumanity....


Oh, and because of AA v KK... see you at Bunkfest =)



As for OP, I say $20k minimum [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] Seriously, I'd say 10k and I'd be very comfortable with the game. Then again, I'm waiting for 40k to play the $10/20, so don't listen to me.

Re: What kinds of swings can one expect on the Party 5-10 6max?
 

8-10k, definitely.

5k is not enough as you will have to drop down if you hit downswing starting out.

Re: What kinds of swings can one expect on the Party 5-10 6max?
 

I play 3 games of 5/10 NL games at once. I think you need a serious bank roll of 30k. If you only play one game at a time 10k would be right.

My average swings are between 1k to 3k a day. 4k 8k if I'm on tilt.

Re: What kinds of swings can one expect on the Party 5-10 6max?
 

[ QUOTE ]
8-10k, definitely.

5k is not enough as you will have to drop down if you hit downswing starting out.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why?

Re: What kinds of swings can one expect on the Party 5-10 6max?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
8-10k, definitely.

[/ QUOTE ]

5k is not enough as you will have to drop down if you hit downswing starting out.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm only jumping in here because I was the one that recommended tilts play 5/10 6 max instead of 15/30 in another thread.

The bankroll recommendations in this thread are absurd. 10k for the Party 5/10 6 max, lol.

If you can lose 10k in the 5/10 6 max, you probably shouldn't be playing poker.

Nigel

Re: What kinds of swings can one expect on the Party 5-10 6max?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
8-10k, definitely.

5k is not enough as you will have to drop down if you hit downswing starting out.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because the psycho effects are far worse for someone starting out 5/10 sh with 300 bb than for a seasoned player who choses to play with 300 bb (cashouts), after a big down swing.

When you start out, you still don't have full confidence. Being over-rolled is good.

If it were a jump from 2/4 to 3/6 full, then 300bb to 400bb is easily enough.

Re: What kinds of swings can one expect on the Party 5-10 6max?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
8-10k, definitely.

5k is not enough as you will have to drop down if you hit downswing starting out.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because the psycho effects are far worse for someone starting out 5/10 sh with 300 bb than for a seasoned player who choses to play with 300 bb (cashouts), after a big down swing.

When you start out, you still don't have full confidence. Being over-rolled is good.

If it were a jump from 2/4 to 3/6 full, then 300bb to 400bb is easily enough.

[/ QUOTE ]

Being over-rolled is good. I am a big fan of it and have always practiced it.

On the other hand, the OP claims to have 200,000 hands of 2/4-5/10 full at 3.5BB/100. He should have plenty of cash and basically be able to sit down at 5/10 6 max with a very small bankroll and hit the ground running.

He is wanting to play 15/30, I am recommending against it, as the questions he is asking aren't indicitave of someone ready to beat the 15/30 for very much. I think he will make more in the 5/10 and improve his play while getting used to the bigger swings by taking the 6 max path. Given his claimed success in the full games, his risk of ruin with even a very small bankroll provided he is willing to drop back is basically 0.

Of course, since he's ready to play 15/30, I don't even know why he's posting a bankroll thread question about 5/10. Clearly he has the roll.

Nigel

Re: What kinds of swings can one expect on the Party 5-10 6max?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Being over-rolled is good. I am a big fan of it and have always practiced it.

On the other hand, the OP claims to have 200,000 hands of 2/4-5/10 full at 3.5BB/100

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, this wasn't easy to guess from the original post [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

I think he should know better... [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Good luck.

Re: What kinds of swings can one expect on the Party 5-10 6max?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'd want at least 8K. The psychological effect of losing 1/2 of your bankroll can really affect your play. Here is a graph of my last 10K hands if you want to get a feel for how schizophrenic the game is.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good lord that's the best graph I've seen yet. Nice work!!

Re: What kinds of swings can one expect on the Party 5-10 6max?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'd want at least 8K. The psychological effect of losing 1/2 of your bankroll can really affect your play. Here is a graph of my last 10K hands if you want to get a feel for how schizophrenic the game is.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good lord that's the best graph I've seen yet. Nice work!!

[/ QUOTE ]

tyvm, it has given me quite the ulcer. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: What kinds of swings can one expect on the Party 5-10 6max?
 

100 BILLION dollars!

http://www.fancyrobot.com/images/dr_evil_1.jpg

Re: What kinds of swings can one expect on the Party 5-10 6max?
 

nh.....thread over! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: What kinds of swings can one expect on the Party 5-10 6max?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Dont listen to all this. 300BB is very sufficient if you are a good player. The play is very weak passive and if you have decent reading skills you will probably ask what kinda swings is expected at 10/20 in a month. Just set yourself a rule that if you hit 200BB you'll move down again and try later once you have 300BB.

[/ QUOTE ]

I choose to believe this advice, not because I think it makes sense, but because I'm a silly 3/6 player who doesn't have the patience to build a proper bankroll before moving up to 5/10. Also, I have good reason to believe that, in my first couple of 5/10 sessions, I'm not going to suffer a single bad beat.

Seriously, my plan is to move to 5/10 when I have just about 350 bb. If I drop 100 bb, then I'll move back to 3/6, and then repeat the process. This is essentially how I've moved up so far. May not be the smartest plan but seems like a decent way of dealing with my impatience problem.

Re: What kinds of swings can one expect on the Party 5-10 6max?
 

[ QUOTE ]

Seriously, my plan is to move to 5/10 when I have just about 350 bb. If I drop 100 bb, then I'll move back to 3/6, and then repeat the process. This is essentially how I've moved up so far. May not be the smartest plan but seems like a decent way of dealing with my impatience problem.

[/ QUOTE ]

absolutely NOTHING wrong with that plan. It's a smart way to move up. Once you establish yourself ermanntly at the 5/10 tho, I would let the bankroll build up to at least 500BB, because if you are a winner in the game, you dont want to have to drop down a level when you hit a bad downswing just because your roll isnt big enough. And if you play long enough you WILL hit a downswing that is over 300BB

Re: What kinds of swings can one expect on the Party 5-10 6max?
 

[ QUOTE ]
8-10k, definitely.

5k is not enough as you will have to drop down if you hit downswing starting out.

[/ QUOTE ]

thats exaggerated...

Re: What kinds of swings can one expect on the Party 5-10 6max?
 

250BB.

Run hot.

Trust me.

Re: What kinds of swings can one expect on the Party 5-10 6max?
 

The bankroll you need depends on a lot of factors:

* Your win rate
* Your standard deviatation
* Your risk tolerance
* How much of your winnings you take out of your bankroll

$5,000 is definitely safe if you know you are a decent winner in the game. I actually think you can get by with less -- say $3,000 -- if you are a beating the game for 2BB/100 or more, particularly if you are willing to step down if you start on a bad downswing. I might get flamed for saying this, but you can probably get by with a starting bankroll of $2,000 if these conditions are true and you don't take any winnings out of your bankroll until it gets bigger.

The problem is you don't know your win rate until you have played in the game, and you can't play in the game until you know what bankroll you need. Chicken meet egg.

If you play for a living, I might recommend *more* than $5,000 since you will constantly be taking money out of your bankroll for living expenses and going bust is, uh, really bad.

If you are a losing player, no bankroll is big enough.

If you never let your bankroll grow past a certain ceiling, no bankroll is big enough (at least in theory).

The bankroll you need is different for everyone. Most people just give the "safe" answer of $5,000. If you lose $5,000, it is very unlikely you are a winner in the game.