J8o in BB
 

$40-80 game with all good players playing good. One player limped. The small blind called. I checked in the big blind with the jack of spades and the eight of diamonds. The flop was 8-3-2, all spades. I had top pair and a flush draw. The small blind checked. I bet. The limper folded. The small blind called. Headsup.

The turn was the ace of spades. The small blind checked. Your turn.

Tommy

Re: J8o in BB
 

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$40-80 game with all good players playing good.

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why play at this table?

as for the hand, check the turn. bet the river if checked to.

Re: J8o in BB
 

Bet and fold to a raise. I can't believe you're being called on the flop with a naked ace by a good player so the turn is not a scare card to me.

If he had a decent hand on the flop he probably would have raised there since you bet into two players and it's likely you have a decent holding. I would put him on hands like 44, 55 or 66 since he didn't bet himself.

Any reason to suspect he would bluff CR the turn?

- Jim

Re: J8o in BB
 

tommy,

this seems pretty clear so im probably missing something. i check the turn and call a river bet or bet if checked to.

-Barron

Re: J8o in BB
 

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Any reason to suspect he would bluff CR the turn?


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This is key. Someone capable of doing that will bet the river if you check the turn, and you're not getting a whole lot of value otherwise from worse hands.

Re: J8o in BB
 

Check if he is capable of raising with a hand you are beating, else bet and fold to a raise.

Re: J8o in BB
 

I don't see any other line to take but check behind on the turn, call a bet on the river or bet if checked to.

Re: J8o in BB
 

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I don't see any other line to take but check behind on the turn, call a bet on the river or bet if checked to.

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Re: J8o in BB
 

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$40-80 game with all good players playing good.

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why play at this table?

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I was practicing recreationalism.

Re: J8o in BB
 

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$40-80 game with all good players playing good.

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I'm not going to look at the rest of the thread yet (my guess is somebody probably already mentioned it) but I thought one of your strengths was game selection. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]


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One player limped. The small blind called. I checked in the big blind with the jack of spades and the eight of diamonds. The flop was 8-3-2, all spades. I had top pair and a flush draw. The small blind checked. I bet. The limper folded. The small blind called. Headsup.

The turn was the ace of spades. The small blind checked. Your turn.

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I check the turn 99% of the time. If my opponent checks the river I bet. If my opponent bets the river I call. IMO this makes the most money by saving bets when beaten and inducing bets or calls from worse hands when ahead.

~ Rick

Re: J8o in BB
 

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I don't see any other line to take but check behind on the turn, call a bet on the river or bet if checked to.

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Thanks Justin and others for that reply. I checked behind on the turn, he bet the river, and I called. He had the bare spade king for the nut flush on the turn. I thought the check on the turn was the right choice. I was curious as to how right. I guess that makes this thread a check check. :-)

Tommy

Re: J8o in BB
 

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$40-80 game with all good players playing good.

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why play at this table?

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I was practicing recreationalism.

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You must have a lot smaller nut or lots more money these days [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

~ Rick

Re: J8o in BB
 

I can only see checking the turn as the correct play. I mean a good player isn't going to be calling a turn bet with 2 pair on an all spade turn heads up (in the game you describe). So you lose almost nothing by checking here.

I would also say folding to a river bet is also the correct play. A good player is going to bet his broadway spade flush but since you have the Js you know he's either got the K Q or T and I don't really see him betting a Ts into a player of Tommy's caliber, and xpecting to get called by the 9s or less, but definitely getting called by a broadway spade.

Re: J8o in BB
 

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I would also say folding to a river bet is also the correct play.

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Depends on your definition of "correct" and Tommy's definition of "good" ... check the turn, call a river bet, bet the river if checked to. This does seem like the line, Tommy...

Barron Vangor Toth
BarronVangorToth.com

Re: J8o in BB
 

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I would also say folding to a river bet is also the correct play. A good player is going to bet his broadway spade flush but since you have the Js you know he's either got the K Q or T and I don't really see him betting a Ts into a player of Tommy's caliber, and xpecting to get called by the 9s or less, but definitely getting called by a broadway spade.

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No way you can fold to a river bet. When Tommy checks behind on the turn you'll see this guy bet almost any two cards he happens to hold, which includes pure bluffs.

Re: J8o in BB
 

"No way you can fold to a river bet. When Tommy checks behind on the turn you'll see this guy bet almost any two cards he happens to hold, which includes pure bluffs."

Agreed. Anytime I check behind on the turn with a pair in a dinky pot against a toughy, I am pretty much committed to calling the river.

Re: J8o in BB
 

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"No way you can fold to a river bet. When Tommy checks behind on the turn you'll see this guy bet almost any two cards he happens to hold, which includes pure bluffs."

good player in a dinky pot check calls an all spade flop. If he has top pair or or better on the flop he'd likely CR here or maybe see the turn to see what develops. Put yourself in the SB shoes would you call here with a naked Q or Ts draw, headsup, no odds, and out of position?

Now of course some specifics are left out as to if this was online, at what site, or live, LV or LA or SF. It all plays different but I know it's definitely not the autocall that everyone makes it out to be.

All that being said if it's like the first orbit or early I'd make this call for meta and other reasons but I'm quite surprised so many feel this is autocall

Agreed. Anytime I check behind on the turn with a pair in a dinky pot against a toughy, I am pretty much committed to calling the river.

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Re: J8o in BB
 

ez check behind.

Re: J8o in BB
 

in situations like this i usually check the turn with the intention of putting 1 more bet in the pot.

BET THE TURN!
 

Only a psychopath or a really, really great player like Tommy Angelo would check-raise without the nuts. Instead of trying to induce a bluff on the river, why not bet for value and hope the small blind tries to pick off YOUR "bluff"?

Since we're not worried about a check raise, the only question is can we extract more bets by betting the turn or betting the river, or maybe betting the turn and the river? I say bet the turn.

Re: J8o in BB
 

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No way you can fold to a river bet. When Tommy checks behind on the turn you'll see this guy bet almost any two cards he happens to hold, which includes pure bluffs.

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Not true. If a good player bets on the river he will either have a very strong hand or a very weak hand, with a strong hand being shown down the great majority of the time. A good player will not bet the middling hands for value. Since the pot is so friggin small you actually have a tough call on the end.

Re: J8o in BB
 

hi tommy

check it. call when he betsout on the river, bet if he checks.