Phil Hellmuth - not a gambler
 

I often wonder if being a gambler is part of what makes great poker players great. Seems like you hear an awful lot about pros like Ivey, TJ, Ted Forrest, Ungar, DN either making -EV non-poker bets or playing above their roll, and I seem to remember Doyle writing something in the intro to SS about heavy sports betting in the past.

Anyway, Hellmuth seems like the exception to the rule in this regard. I was only able to listen to the cardplayer final table audio for a short while, but I was struck by Phil's comment to DN regarding his HU challenge - namely that even if he (Phil) was a 55/45 favorite over DN in a HU match, he wouldn't want to risk $500k on it.

This led me to wonder whether I'd be willing to risk 10% of my total liquid assets as a 55/45 favorite. Hard to say for sure when it's just theoretical, but I'm fairly certain that I'd take that bet. Maybe not for more than 30% though...

Anyway, I'm no fan of Phil, his bloated ego and silly antics, but I do kinda respect the guy for his discipline.

Re: Phil Hellmuth - not a gambler
 

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This led me to wonder whether I'd be willing to risk 10% of my total liquid assets as a 55/45 favorite. Hard to say for sure when it's just theoretical, but I'm fairly certain that I'd take that bet. Maybe not for more than 30% though...

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I believe that Doyle Brunson said in SS1 that he'd bet everything he owned on a coin flip if he got 2-1 odds.

Re: Phil Hellmuth - not a gambler
 

Phil makes terrible bets too... His wager with E-dog about a river outdraw w/ 5 outs(i think) at 6-1

Re: Phil Hellmuth - not a gambler
 

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This led me to wonder whether I'd be willing to risk 10% of my total liquid assets as a 55/45 favorite. Hard to say for sure when it's just theoretical, but I'm fairly certain that I'd take that bet.

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I would take it- this meets the Kelley criteria perfectly.

Re: Phil Hellmuth - not a gambler
 

phil is a gambler, youre wrong about that.

youre also wrong about his reasons for not taking daniels offer. i believe that phil knows daniel is the favorite. he also doesnt play this high for many reasons. i really doubt that phil is worth 5 mill. lets be realistic here.

Re: Phil Hellmuth - not a gambler
 

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This led me to wonder whether I'd be willing to risk 10% of my total liquid assets as a 55/45 favorite. Hard to say for sure when it's just theoretical, but I'm fairly certain that I'd take that bet. Maybe not for more than 30% though...

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I believe that Doyle Brunson said in SS1 that he'd bet everything he owned on a coin flip if he got 2-1 odds.

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I think it was 10-1

Re: Phil Hellmuth - not a gambler
 

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phil is a gambler, youre wrong about that.

youre also wrong about his reasons for not taking daniels offer. i believe that phil knows daniel is the favorite. he also doesnt play this high for many reasons. i really doubt that phil is worth 5 mill. lets be realistic here.

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Based on this page, I'd be shocked if it wasn't at least 5M

http://pokerdb.thehendonmob.com/play...?a=r&n=117

That is just his tourney cashes and if my quick and dirty addition is correct it is just under 5M.

Re: Phil Hellmuth - not a gambler
 

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I believe that Doyle Brunson said in SS1 that he'd bet everything he owned on a coin flip if he got 2-1 odds.

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What's Doyle strategy just in case he ends up losing that coin flip?

Re: Phil Hellmuth - not a gambler
 

according to some hellmuth was a huge loser in the high stakes games in the past. if you play the highest games you can lose all your tourney winnings pretty quick. while he is definitely a winner in the tourneys, in the long run, he probably has not earned 5 mil playing poker. with his books and stuff though im sure he is doing quite ok financially.

Re: Phil Hellmuth - not a gambler
 

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I believe that Doyle Brunson said in SS1 that he'd bet everything he owned on a coin flip if he got 2-1 odds.

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What's Doyle strategy just in case he ends up losing that coin flip?

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Get staked and keep playing cards?

Re: Phil Hellmuth - not a gambler
 

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This led me to wonder whether I'd be willing to risk 10% of my total liquid assets as a 55/45 favorite. Hard to say for sure when it's just theoretical, but I'm fairly certain that I'd take that bet. Maybe not for more than 30% though...

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I believe that Doyle Brunson said in SS1 that he'd bet everything he owned on a coin flip if he got 2-1 odds.

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I think it was 10-1

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It was.

Re: Phil Hellmuth - not a gambler
 

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This led me to wonder whether I'd be willing to risk 10% of my total liquid assets as a 55/45 favorite. Hard to say for sure when it's just theoretical, but I'm fairly certain that I'd take that bet. Maybe not for more than 30% though...

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I believe that Doyle Brunson said in SS1 that he'd bet everything he owned on a coin flip if he got 2-1 odds.

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I think it was 10-1

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It was.

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Well hell, anybody would do that.

Re: Phil Hellmuth - not a gambler
 

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phil is a gambler, youre wrong about that.

youre also wrong about his reasons for not taking daniels offer. i believe that phil knows daniel is the favorite. he also doesnt play this high for many reasons. i really doubt that phil is worth 5 mill. lets be realistic here.

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Based on this page, I'd be shocked if it wasn't at least 5M

http://pokerdb.thehendonmob.com/play...?a=r&n=117

That is just his tourney cashes and if my quick and dirty addition is correct it is just under 5M.

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You would be surprised if someone who made less than 5 million in 17 years ignoring expenses wasnt worth more than 5 million?

Re: Phil Hellmuth - not a gambler
 

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phil is a gambler, youre wrong about that.

youre also wrong about his reasons for not taking daniels offer. i believe that phil knows daniel is the favorite. he also doesnt play this high for many reasons. i really doubt that phil is worth 5 mill. lets be realistic here.

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Based on this page, I'd be shocked if it wasn't at least 5M

http://pokerdb.thehendonmob.com/play...?a=r&n=117

That is just his tourney cashes and if my quick and dirty addition is correct it is just under 5M.

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You would be surprised if someone who made less than 5 million in 17 years ignoring expenses wasnt worth more than 5 million?

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If it's Hellmuth I would be. The guy sold a zillion books, and he's said he got lucky in the stock market and other investments.

Re: Phil Hellmuth - not a gambler
 

dude

1) taxes
2) 17 years
3) expenses
4) deduct buyins pls
5) he might have been bankrolled for some of the events and only took a portion (?)

Re: Phil Hellmuth - not a gambler
 

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youre also wrong about his reasons for not taking daniels offer. i believe that phil knows daniel is the favorite. he also doesnt play this high for many reasons. i really doubt that phil is worth 5 mill. lets be realistic here.

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Heads up NLHE, I don't believe that DN would be the favorite. I'm not talking about what the betting line would be, just who I believe would have the better chances. I certainly don't believe that Hellmuth would believe that DN would be favored.

Say what you want about Hellmuth (I'm one of the few people that kind of likes him), but I think that he is undoubtedly one of the more "normal" poker pros and doesn't want to make huge gambles with his bankroll. I respect him for that.

Re: Phil Hellmuth - not a gambler
 

Even if I had 30 million dollar bankroll I wouldn't play headsup for 500k.

Re: Phil Hellmuth - not a gambler
 

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Even if I had 30 million dollar bankroll I wouldn't play headsup for 500k.

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Even if you figured to be a 60% favorite?

Re: Phil Hellmuth - not a gambler
 

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youre also wrong about his reasons for not taking daniels offer. i believe that phil knows daniel is the favorite. he also doesnt play this high for many reasons. i really doubt that phil is worth 5 mill. lets be realistic here.

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Heads up NLHE, I don't believe that DN would be the favorite. I'm not talking about what the betting line would be, just who I believe would have the better chances. I certainly don't believe that Hellmuth would believe that DN would be favored.

Say what you want about Hellmuth (I'm one of the few people that kind of likes him), but I think that he is undoubtedly one of the more "normal" poker pros and doesn't want to make huge gambles with his bankroll. I respect him for that.

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I'm 99.9% sure phil said dan is a favorite in limit

Re: Phil Hellmuth - not a gambler
 

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I'm 99.9% sure phil said dan is a favorite in limit

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Okay, but wasn't part of DN's challenge that his opponents could choose the game?

I'm sure that Hellmuth would not play for these stakes (good for him) but if he had to, I'm sure he'd choose NLHE. I wasn't referring to limit.

Re: Phil Hellmuth - not a gambler
 

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This led me to wonder whether I'd be willing to risk 10% of my total liquid assets as a 55/45 favorite. Hard to say for sure when it's just theoretical, but I'm fairly certain that I'd take that bet. Maybe not for more than 30% though...

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I believe that Doyle Brunson said in SS1 that he'd bet everything he owned on a coin flip if he got 2-1 odds.

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I think it was 10-1

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It was.

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Well hell, anybody would do that.

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The vast majority of people certainly would not. More than 60% of 2+2 posters also would not.

Re: Phil Hellmuth - not a gambler
 

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phil is a gambler, youre wrong about that.

youre also wrong about his reasons for not taking daniels offer. i believe that phil knows daniel is the favorite. he also doesnt play this high for many reasons. i really doubt that phil is worth 5 mill. lets be realistic here.

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Care to elaborate on "Phil the gambler"?

Also, the discussion on cardplayer went like this:
Phil: " Assuming I'm a 55/45 favorite, I wouldn't play for 500k...", so it really isn't relevant whether he would actually be a favorite or not.

Re: Phil Hellmuth - not a gambler
 

Somebody might have posted this already.. But Hellmuth said in his book that for a while he was addicted to Craps.

Re: Phil Hellmuth - not a gambler
 

Including me.

Its one thing for people to say it, but I highly doubt many of the people that say it would literally put -everything- they own on the line unless the chance of loss was miniscule.

Re: Phil Hellmuth - not a gambler
 

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Its one thing for people to say it, but I highly doubt many of the people that say it would literally put -everything- they own on the line unless the chance of loss was miniscule.

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It's easy to say when the chances of being taken up on it are virtually zero

Re: Phil Hellmuth - not a gambler
 

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Even if I had 30 million dollar bankroll I wouldn't play headsup for 500k.

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http://biology.clc.uc.edu/graphics/t...icken%2009.JPG



jk

Re: Phil Hellmuth - not a gambler
 

that's a rooster not a chicken.

Re: Phil Hellmuth - not a gambler
 

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dude

1) taxes
2) 17 years
3) expenses
4) deduct buyins pls
5) he might have been bankrolled for some of the events and only took a portion (?)

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dude

Interest
appreciation of capital

Assuming he invested at least a portion of it semi-wisely it should double in value theoretically every 7 years. If he was smart about the tech bubble it doubled a lot faster than that. It wouldn't surprise me if he's worth at least 5 mil as well but then again, I don't really care.

Re: Phil Hellmuth - not a gambler
 

May I remind everyone that Hellmuth won the National Head's Up Championship?

If anyone should consider themselves a favorite to play a head's up Hold Em game it should be Hellmuth.

I really respect his decision not to "gamble".

Re: Phil Hellmuth - not a gambler
 

A rooster is a chicken. Female chickens are hens. Male chickens are roosters.

Re: Phil Hellmuth - not a gambler
 

and popeyes > kfc

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As far as Brunson losing everything on a coin toss...

he's old enough for his children to be taking care of him :P

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OT, DN probabaly plans on freezing out the other players. Not exactly what I would look forward to for a large even money bet.

Hellmuth and all his baggage may be a lot, but he isn't stupid.

Re: Phil Hellmuth - not a gambler
 

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This led me to wonder whether I'd be willing to risk 10% of my total liquid assets as a 55/45 favorite. Hard to say for sure when it's just theoretical, but I'm fairly certain that I'd take that bet. Maybe not for more than 30% though...

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I believe that Doyle Brunson said in SS1 that he'd bet everything he owned on a coin flip if he got 2-1 odds.

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I think it was 10-1

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It was.

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Well hell, anybody would do that.

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Not me.

Re: Phil Hellmuth - not a gambler
 

i like it [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Phil Hellmuth - not a gambler
 

That's a tournament where you cant lose more than the buyin. There's no money pressure. It's totally different for playing heads-up for $500K where the loss would really hurt you.