Crime or not, did \"the leaker\" actually \"leak\" anything?
 

Reading Novak's original article, I don't see how we can assume that the "source" actually leaked Plame's identity.

[ QUOTE ]
Wilson never worked for the CIA, but his wife, Valerie Plame, is an Agency operative on weapons of mass destruction. Two senior administration officials told me Wilson's wife suggested sending him to Niger to investigate the Italian report.

[/ QUOTE ]
[cite]

He doesn't say that the "senior administration officials" told him that Plame was Wilson's wife.

Ignore the fact that Rove now says that Novak told Rove that Plame was Wilson's wife, then Rove told Novak that Plame got the job for him. When this first blew up, all we had was Novak's article. How does it alone justify all of this dustup? Is there more that I missed somewhere?

Re: Crime or not, did \"the leaker\" actually \"leak\" anything?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Novak told Rove that Plame was Wilson's wife, then Rove told Novak that Plame got the job for him.

[/ QUOTE ]

That strange chronology is hard to ignore.

-ptmusic

Re: Crime or not, did \"the leaker\" actually \"leak\" anything?
 

source? (other than Ann Coulter or NewsMax?)

Re: Crime or not, did \"the leaker\" actually \"leak\" anything?
 

Are you asking me for a source, or just continuing the questioning of OP that I was doing?

Anyway, I'm just saying that why would Novak tell Rove about Wilson' wife - probably because Novak found out that she was the one who recommended Wilson for the trip to Niger, right?

So then why would Rove tell Novak anything about the situation? Novak seemed to know about it before Rove!

Something doesn't add up here.

-ptmusic

Re: Crime or not, did \"the leaker\" actually \"leak\" anything?
 

Take a look at Novak's original quote after the article was published two years ago.

"It's not something I came up with, They gave it to me", meaning Ms. Plame's name, and her occupation as a CIA Agent.

Revealing the name of a CIA agent would be Federal Offense...

Re: Crime or not, did \"the leaker\" actually \"leak\" anything?
 

ptmusic -
You quote pvn as -
[ QUOTE ]
Novak told Rove that Plame was Wilson's wife, then Rove told Novak that Plame got the job for him.

[/ QUOTE ]

What he said was -
[ QUOTE ]
Ignore the fact that Rove now says that Novak told Rove that Plame was Wilson's wife, then Rove told Novak that Plame got the job for him. When this first blew up, all we had was Novak's article.

[/ QUOTE ]

It might have been more honest to quote -
[ QUOTE ]
... Novak told Rove that Plame was Wilson's wife, then Rove told Novak that Plame got the job for him.

[/ QUOTE ]

pvn-

I don't think Rove told Novak that Plame got the job for him -- I think that he said his wife got the job for him. 0f course, Novak had just confirmed that he knew who Wilsons wife was and what she did.

It was a situation where Novak had already tipped his hand as to what he knew. Aside from that, Rove didn't tell him anything. If Plame had been working as an undercover operative, I doubt Novak could have discovered that simply by knowing "his wife got him the job". First Novak would have had to find out who his wife was, then find out what she did and how she could have gotten him the job. If Novak could do that based on such a simple statement -- either she wasn't undercover or we've got some security issues. Novak has admitted, he knew it in advance. So Rove, in an indirect way, confirmed it. If he hadn't, I presume we would now be hearing stories about the Rove coverup of what reporters already knew was true.

It's an interesting game that I wouldn't want to play.

Re: Crime or not, did \"the leaker\" actually \"leak\" anything?
 

[ QUOTE ]
First Novak would have had to find out who his wife was

[/ QUOTE ]

The fact that Plame is Wilson's wife is NOT a secret. It was well known way before this "scandal". Her name, Valerie Plame, appears in Wilson's "Who's Who in America" entry.

[ QUOTE ]
then find out what she did

[/ QUOTE ]

Apparently the fact that she worked at the CIA was common knowledge as well. Novak provides cites for both of these being known facts before his original column in a followup [cite].

[ QUOTE ]
and how she could have gotten him the job.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's the tricky part.

Re: Crime or not, did \"the leaker\" actually \"leak\" anything?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Take a look at Novak's original quote after the article was published two years ago.

"It's not something I came up with, They gave it to me", meaning Ms. Plame's name, and her occupation as a CIA Agent.

[/ QUOTE ]

Can you provide a cite that clearly shows that he meant her name and occupation?

[ QUOTE ]
Revealing the name of a CIA agent would be Federal Offense...

[/ QUOTE ]

In general, this is wrong. Only a small number of people (i.e those with clearance that have been entrusted with protecting such info) are restricted from revealing this info, and even then only in certain circumstances.

Re: Crime or not, did \"the leaker\" actually \"leak\" anything?
 

I think this should answer the question. From today's Wall Street Journal, Page A3:

Memo Underscored Issue of Shielding Plame's Identity By ANNE MARIE SQUEO and JOHN D. MCKINNON Staff Reporters of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL July 19, 2005; Page A3

A classified State Department memo that may be pivotal to the CIA leak case made clear that information identifying an agent and her role in her husband's intelligence-gathering mission was sensitive and shouldn't be shared, according to a person familiar with the document.

Re: Crime or not, did \"the leaker\" actually \"leak\" anything?
 

No...this doesn't clear up anything. And it doesn't seem to make a lot of sense. What does the State Dept have to do with the sensitivity of a CIA memo?

In any event, it appears that Rove is not the target of the investigation . It's clear to just about everyone with an IQ greater than their height in inches that no law has been broken.

Re: Crime or not, did \"the leaker\" actually \"leak\" anything?
 

[ QUOTE ]
It's clear to just about everyone with an IQ greater than their height in inches that no law has been broken.

[/ QUOTE ]

So if it turns out that a law was broken, will you hold yourself to the same slam and declare that you have an IQ less than your height in inches?

-ptmusic

Re: Crime or not, did \"the leaker\" actually \"leak\" anything?
 

Perhaps I should have qualified that statement. It's clear that no one has broken the Intelligence Identities Protection Act of 1982 by any stretch. Perjury/obstruction may be the only crimes that have been committed. If these turn out to be the crimes that someone committed, it will be interesting to note that these crimes occurred because of a false allegation that someone breached national security.

And besides, maybe I'm 139 inches tall, for all you know. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Crime or not, did \"the leaker\" actually \"leak\" anything?
 

BCPVP -

I'd take the wager from ptmusic; I'm most interested in what metric he is willing to publicly disclose. There must be consideration.

Re: Crime or not, did \"the leaker\" actually \"leak\" anything?
 

The State Dept. memo mentioned is the memo written about Joe Wilson's findings in Africa. The memo includes all of the information about the trip, who he spoke to, what his findings and conclusions were. It also indicates Ms. Wilson's role, as a WMD expert, and her contacts in Niger along with her opinions.

Hence, at the lead of the memo, it indicates Ms. Wilson's current job and that her identity is NOT to be shared...

Re: Crime or not, did \"the leaker\" actually \"leak\" anything?
 

[ QUOTE ]
A classified State Department memo that may be pivotal to the CIA leak case made clear that information identifying an agent and her role in her husband's intelligence-gathering mission was sensitive and shouldn't be shared, according to a person familiar with the document.

[/ QUOTE ]

There's a big difference between some bureaucrat saying "don't talk about this" and it actually being legally protected information. There are plenty of sniveling bureaucrats that think everything the government does should be kept secret from the loser citizens.

Re: Crime or not, did \"the leaker\" actually \"leak\" anything?
 

Read today's Washington Post lead story, A1. The information on Ms.Plame's identity is marked SECRET....

Re: Crime or not, did \"the leaker\" actually \"leak\" anything?
 

This doesn't mean much. Rove has testified that he learned of Plame's identity from Novak, not the other way around. If Rove hears it from Novak and tells Cooper later, no crime or wrongdoing has been committed.

Re: Crime or not, did \"the leaker\" actually \"leak\" anything?
 

How do you come to THAT conclusion?? Rove's (or anyone elses's) SOURCE doesn't matter. Disseminating the information is the crime.

What the State Department memo DOES show is that Ms. Plame's identity, as a CIA operative, was classified and not to be shared, SO as the original topic of this thread initmates, YES there was a "leak"

Re: Crime or not, did \"the leaker\" actually \"leak\" anything?
 

[ QUOTE ]
How do you come to THAT conclusion?? Rove's (or anyone elses's) SOURCE doesn't matter. Disseminating the information is the crime.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's not true. Disseminating the information is only a crime if certain strict conditions are met.