Analysis of my new aggressive play (Well thought, 12 hands, long)
 

My goal with this post is to go over what I thought were important hands from a tournament I recently played on UltimateBet. I have recently been struggling with two different subject matters in my tournament play. Firstly I have come to realize that my style is a fairly conservative one where I play only premium hands. I am folding a lot of hands up front and from middle position when I know the hand can’t stand a raise. This has created a tighter image for me, which isn’t all that bad, but looking at my performance, I either finish just outside of the money or right in it, making back my buy-in and then some. Secondly is this all or nothing mentality that I don’t have. I guess it is what people call that “gamble.” I recently made a post where I asked people “What is gambling?” and have drawn the conclusion that gambling is the people part of the game. It is using your position, your image, your stack size, their stack size and a whole slew of other things to go along with it. I wasn’t using this info at all. Pretty much I was looking down at my cards, the board and then saying “I have a good hand” or “I missed.”

Now taking those into consideration I have been doing some studying and research on how I can change my game. I have been reading books, observing other tournaments, and reading up on how the successful pros have been playing. With all of that in mind I decided that I would play a much more aggressive style as opposed to my conservative style. I would be playing people a lot more and using my position and stack size to bludgeon people if possible. I also have started to develop this “all or nothing” mentality. I don’t care if I finish just inside the money anymore. I am going to play to win. I’m not going to play to not lose. So with all that said and done I played my first tourney with all of the new information I have gained and my new “developing” playing style. I am happy with the results but I believe I made some mistakes. Below are the hands I played and I will tell you my thinking in them. They are all linked to save space, but inside each you see my comments. Please tell me what you think as well as any other constructive criticism you might have. There is also some additional info below.

Tourney info:
$5+.50 NL Tourney on UB
714 entrants
Start with 1500
Blinds start at 5/10 and go up every 12 minutes

My strategy for winning:
It’s a cheap tournament and I don’t expect people to take it as serious as I would. People are gonna be drawing out when the odds don’t warrant it and are gonna call all-ins with marginal hands. Keeping that in mind I am going to play fairly conservative the first four levels (5/10, 10/20, 15/30, 20/40). The risk-vs-reward is just to small during these blinds and its going to be hard to move people off of their hands for another 100-300 or so during these levels. If I do hit a good hand I am gonna push it for as much valve as possible seeing people tend to pay off value bets and the likes on the river.

After those levels I am gonna open up and play a lot more aggressive. I am going to be raising in late position with more marginal hands to try to pick up pots if it is passed to me. I’m going to be doing some more calling with speculative hands to try to hit a good flop against a more passive/timid/tight opponent. I will be limping in more. I will be reraising with my strong hands two about 4 times the opening raise. I am gonna continue this and start playing with short stacks up until we close in on the money.

When we close in on the money I am gonna go into a hyper aggressive mode and try to pick up as many pots as possible. If I get popped back, that’s okay. I will just dump but I will still be up from all the money I am taking from timid players just trying to make the money. Once we make the money I will head back to just an aggressive mode and continue building my stack to make it to the final table.

Hands:

Hand 1 - Taking a free card on the button or betting the pot after passed to me?

Hand 2 - Extracting the most out of Aces early in the tournament. 3 handed (one allin).

Hand 3 - Trying to create a rush against a loose player. Correct river decision?

Hand 4 - Flopping a monster in the SB. How to extract the most money out of this?

Hand 5 - Tricky hand flopping middle pair against a LAG. The LAG was checking and calling though.

Hand 6 - Any other way to not lose with pocket Aces in this hand?

Hand 7 - Pushing in with any hand short stacked?

Hand 8 - Similar to hand 7 but pushing in with a LAG in the BB. Bad idea?

Hand 9 - Similar to 7 and 8 but pushing in trying to move a tight player off his hand.

Hand 10 - Checking when I think I am ahead? Bad idea with two pair on the board?

Hand 11 - Trying to isolate someone to go heads up. Bad play? Was I to aggressive here with a marginal holding?

Hand 12 - Bluffing your stack away and getting busted.

You can tell that I wasn't out in Hand 12, but pretty much out. I would need another A-MAZING comeback again to be a threat again.

Overall I enjoyed playing this tourney and thought I did alright. I made mistakes obviously and would love your input on how I can improve my game. Please as much time as you want and leave me any comments. I appreciate them all and the time you have taken to help me in pursuit of a stronger tournament game.

Chris

Anyone got anything to say?
 

Just a bump to see if anyone has anything to say about this post. Took like an hour and a half to make. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Analysis of my new aggressive play (Well thought, 12 hands, long)
 

[ QUOTE ]
It’s a cheap tournament and I don’t expect people to take it as serious as I would. People are gonna be drawing out when the odds don’t warrant it and are gonna call all-ins with marginal hands. Keeping that in mind I am going to play fairly conservative the first four levels (5/10, 10/20, 15/30, 20/40). The risk-vs-reward is just to small during these blinds and its going to be hard to move people off of their hands for another 100-300 or so during these levels. If I do hit a good hand I am gonna push it for as much valve as possible seeing people tend to pay off value bets and the likes on the river.


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This is contradictory. You are saying people will not be as focused or take it as seriously as you. Therefore they will play loose and go all-in with poor draws, as dogs. And then you talk about pushing people off of their hands. Why would you want to push folks off of their hands if they are drawing more and getting their money in as draws? The risk vs reward is huge dude. You risk 25 chips to make possibly 1500 on many different hands? You've gotta play loose here and make a stack for yourself. Like calling with 8-10d in late position. I like that move.

I don't have time to read all your hands yet, but I will later today hopefully.

Brad

Re: Analysis of my new aggressive play (Well thought, 12 hands, long)
 

Ya I'm playing looser as part of my aggressiveness in late position and the such. But earlier in the tourney I am playing tighter. Sometimes I get people pushing in their chips with AK and KQ and TT and JJ after I have raised a pot. I have to obviously fold here unless I have a stellar hand.

But playing loosely in the earlier rounds seems kind silly to me when you are in early postion. Middle position I might limp with some hands and certainly late position to try to get lucky.

But I don't think my aggressiveness comes to play right away in the earlier rounds. I don't think raising with Q7s and the likes in middle position when it is passed to me is all that smart when the blinds are so small.

Re: Anyone got anything to say?
 

There is a lot to look at -

Hand 1 - I fold pre-flop
-it is hard to win a big with that hand.

T8s - maybe I sometimes play but a would alternate between raising and limping.

Re: Anyone got anything to say?
 

Hand 2 - on the turn I would just checkraise all in -

Re: Anyone got anything to say?
 

Hand 3 - bet less on river or check call if you think he'll bluff with a weaker hand.

Re: Analysis of my new aggressive play (Well thought, 12 hands, long)
 

Hand 4 - I go ahead and bet the flop. People have a tendency not to believe you when you lead out.

A check-call and a check-raise scream a 2.

Lead the flop and then check/raise the turn (this will work especially well if the turn card is higher than a T).

Re: Anyone got anything to say?
 

What would make you play 108s and not 106s? I can see that maybe becuase you wanted more high card strength but that doesn't make much since, since both the 8 and 6 kicker are easily beaten. Possibly more straight possibilities?

Re: Anyone got anything to say?
 

I dunno about that though. The person I was in the pot with on the turn was a loose player. Sometimes he was aggressive and sometimes he was passive. I sensed a little weakness and he wasn't being entirely aggressive with his hand this time around.

Do you think a checkraise would of been as effective? I think it might of scared him away in this case as his hand wasn't very strong at this point. I thought getting a little more money from him in the pot to help build the pot would be great. Maybe he would call my river allin (which he did) because he had a lot invested already and the pot was to big for him to lay his hand down.

I think a CR on the turn would of shut him out at that point.

Re: Anyone got anything to say?
 

The straight possibilities make the hand much much better.

Brad

Re: Anyone got anything to say?
 

So would you be more inclined to dump 106s?

Im thinking about it and I know that the straight possibilities are better with the 108s, but then how would you play it? Would you raise in that position? I don't think I would. I have two players who I know are fairly loose and wouldn't be afraid to call another 4-5BB when the blinds are so small.

I think if I didn't have limpers infront of me I would of just dropped the hand. I am looking to get in cheaply and catch someone off by surprise here.

So in this position with two limpers infront of me, one of which I know is loose, and the BB who I know is loose, I think I would just limp with both T6s as well as T8s. I appreciate the fact that T8s can make more straights, but does it really warrant a raise in late position with the players already in? I just don't think they will get fazed with the raise and will call it.

As for that what about the flop play. Was that an easy bet? Or should I of checked?

Re: Analysis of my new aggressive play (Well thought, 12 hands, long)
 

[ QUOTE ]
It is using your position, your image, your stack size, their stack size and a whole slew of other things to go along with it...

I decided that I would play a much more aggressive style as opposed to my conservative style. I would be playing people a lot more and using my position and stack size... I am going to play to win.

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Sounds like you're on the right track.

Re: Anyone got anything to say?
 

Ya. I decided that I was ahead of the hand and I would value bet it. But that was obviously way to steep of a bet. Kind of riskier than I had anticipated on that hand.

How much would you of bet there if you were to value bet your hand? Pot had 745 in it at the time with the blinds at 15/30.

Re: Anyone got anything to say?
 

Most times I will limp with T8s and hope to flop big -

I will raise on occasion because:
1) it mixes up my play
2) if you raise you can often pick up the pot with a standard continuation bet
3) image considerations - your opponents are now aware that you are capable of raising a wide range of hands - which makes it a lot harder for them to put you on hand later.

I will often raise with a hand like that, make a standard continuation bet and show the hand after everyone folds. This will get you action on your monsters in later rounds.

T6s is garbage.

Re: Analysis of my new aggressive play (Well thought, 12 hands, long)
 

Ya. Its been kind of frustrating the past 4-5 months before I finally came to this realization. It also took a lot of willpower too to say that my style wasn't the best one to win the tourneys. I usually have a tight game in the NL cash and Limit cash games that I play in, and it serves me well.

But my trouble now is adopting a new style for my single table tourneys. My conservative style works pretty well for them, but I need to adjust it a little so I am a consistent winner.

And I still need to practice lots in my tourney as well. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Anyone got anything to say?
 

If you are going to stack him it's going to be on the turn -
what happens if a K or T comes on the river? Are you pushing then?

What if you check and he pushes? Then you're in a tough spot.

That's why I just put it all in on the turn.

Re: Anyone got anything to say?
 

My intial inclination is to bet 200-250 there.

Re: Anyone got anything to say?
 

[ QUOTE ]

I think I would just limp with both T6s as well as T8s. I appreciate the fact that T8s can make more straights, but does it really warrant a raise in late position with the players already in? I just don't think they will get fazed with the raise and will call it.

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You arent playing T6s and you arent raising T8s.
T6s = HORRID
T8s = bad hand with great potential

You seem to think the additional straight possibilities dont matter but they make all the difference. When you play suited connectors, you are playing for a straight ideally, or two-pair. The flush is an extra out that adds 5% to your odds of winning which is just enough to give you that extra incentive to play. You flop a draw, you determine the best way to play that draw based on everything tournament players have to consider, and then you hope to win the pot by bluffing or hitting, unless you are forced to fold it.

T6s might as well be 27s, you cannot flop a good draw. The best you can REASONABLY expect to flop is a gutshot or maybe two-pair, but you can flop two pair with any hand. Gutshots are bad draws!
You seem to be playing hands for flushes, which is a really bad idea. Youre going to lose a lot of money chasing T high flushes when you A.) miss and B.) lose to higher flushes (and c.) no one pays you when they hit.)

If you want to start playing a more aggressive style i think you need to first learn the odds and success rates of the hands youve chosen as playable. Obviously there are players who can take any 2-cards and play them aggressively, Negraneu and Farha the most well known, but until you get that good you are dumping T6s, and probably T8s until you get more comfortable manuvering on the flop.

Re: Anyone got anything to say?
 

Do you have any recommendations for learning the odds/stats? I would love to learn more about the hands I am playing and consider playing.

Re: Analysis of my new aggressive play (Well thought, 12 hands, long)
 

I am writing this part of the post without looking at your hands yet: You have the absolutely right idea but the wrong application. Mostly, the issue is that you are trying to LAG it up in a $5 tourney, representing big hands when people's thought processes go 'I have an ace, I'll call' on a flop of KT8. Don't do this. For your purposes, gambling just means things like taking coinflips for small chunks of your stack or getting huge odds; that will be far more helpful.

OK, I'll now actually go review your hands.

1)The call is actually not THAT bad solely because you have the button behind 3 limpers (though T8s is vastly better.) If you don't know how to play this hand well postflop, though, it's bad. So anyway, you bet the pot on a paired board with 5 people in it when it got checked to you and turned a flush draw into 72o because you couldn't call a raise. Don't do that and just take your free card.

Hand 2: Fine PF, fine on the flop, take his stack on the turn. He won't fold an ace if you push anyway.

4: Fold PF out of position. Bet or check/call the flop, your 2 is obvious.

6: Bad beat post, don't do this.

7-9: fine

10: Well played, this is an autocall on the river BTW

11: With no reads, just check. This is a move you can make in a tournament where a raise means something, not in a $5. You actually kinda want them in, BTW, because the flip side to this is if the flop comes AK4 you triple up.

12: Frankly I would just push this perfect flop; the pot is big and you want it. PF, you're calling off 10% of your stack with very little against people who will not fold (you should've learned this from hand 11 BTW) if they hit anything.

So yeah, you're on the right track. Just vary your play according to the buyin you are playing.

Re: Analysis of my new aggressive play (Well thought, 12 hands, long)
 

Well first I’d say you got the wrong idea in the tournament by playing conservative in the first few levels. Usually I see a lot of flops early b/c like you said, why risk chips to steal pots. So, most people won’t try to steal pots and you can see cheap flops with suited low cards or stuff like 7 5. If you hit, you could take a lot of chips away from people but if you don’t then you don’t lose much. That’s my strategy and helps my table image as a loose player so later on when the blinds do go up, I usually get action and win back whatever I lost if anything.

Hand 1: if you’re playing against loose players, I usually play tight and take free cards. I do this because I naturally assume they are better loose players than I am, if I play a tight person I play looser because again they are better loose players. I’d take a free card and let them dig their own graves on the turn and river with their betting because you know they are itching to bluff at the pot. Although I don’t think you were wrong here in trying to steal the pot…just I wouldn’t. After you had no chance to fold because you had to assume that he was ahead because chances are he has your 10 high beat (even though he didn’t)

Hand 2: Nice hand…played well.

Hand 3: I would’ve bet on the turn. If he calls me there he might have a flush draw and he probably would raise if already had the str8 because he is so loose right? On the river it’s a big bet for him…nearly half his stack, if he calls you or raises he probably has you beat. I would’ve bet a little smaller and tried to get more money and have it serve as a feeler bet to see if you are ahead.

Hand 4: Difficult play but still I’d suggest letting them catch up to you. If you check and then call, people will probably think may be 10 3 or may be a smaller pocket pair. Raising it that much probably cost you some chips but then again better to win a small pot that lose a big one. I’d say you did alright in this hand.

Hand 5: Difficult decision here, this is where I say I would’ve called but if I was there I would’ve folded. The reason why I would say call but actually fold is because he is loose he could be bluffing. Also he could have a queen and put you on a king, but when the 2nd king fell on the river he could think you don’t have a king and were bluffing w/ ace jack suited or some pocket pair around 8s. Oh well, you were ahead in chips over most people so I can’t fault your play. You don’t need to risk those chips and risk ruining all your work with a marginal hand. I see both sides here and its one of those gut feeling things and where you just say good luck. That’s why the winners of poker get paid money…its not easy.

Hand 6: You did what you were supposed to do, put all your money in there with the best hand. Got outdrawn, bad break man…sorry, grab a beer and relax for a few and then get back on that horse. This is one of those hands that is the reason why you always see a percentage next to a guys name and not a check mark when he has aces. Sorry bad beat. Nothing you could do.

Hand 7: They say heads up an average hand is queen 7, obviously 9 4 isn’t the best and to make a move and I think you could’ve waited for an ace or king but hey you lucked out so I think that was a bad play that worked out.

Hand 8: Here I say it’s a really play and I can’t see how someone didn’t call you, I mean it’s obvious you are on tilt but hey its working so again nice job. Remember they say all-in works every time…every time but once.

Hand 9: With BB sneaking up on you and having an ace I thought you had to make that move. Good job and now you don’t have to push all-in with every hand…you can play poker.

Hand 10: I think you made the right move here…he knew he would have to bet to win the pot and good job with winning the pot. If he had a 10 or a 5 he would’ve bet on the flop trying to get some money from the short stack. After you already have a quarter of your chips in the pot. A few value bets here would make you pot committed, him not better and having more chips makes this a hard but correct move. Good job.

Hand 11: Lost a lot of chips for really no reason. Pocket 4s is nice hand but you’re probably not going to force the short stack out w/ a quarter of his chips in there. Probably too bold of a move for a small pair and a table you have no read on. Next time wait until you get a read on the table for bit. You are playing poker not cards, you’re playing people as well. It didn’t work out but you have chips at least to still play with.

Hand 12: Wow!! Tough break, I can’t believe he called a re-raise with just an open ended straight draw. Bad break but when he called on the flop, I’d wait to hit the hand before betting again. I could only call if I had trips or two pair or the nut flush. I’d say this was a mistake but you made a move and you’ll have to live with it. Not a bad move but I’d say hold back a bit. Hope these help. Good luck.

Re: Analysis of my new aggressive play (Well thought, 12 hands, long)
 

[ QUOTE ]
I am writing this part of the post without looking at your hands yet: You have the absolutely right idea but the wrong application. Mostly, the issue is that you are trying to LAG it up in a $5 tourney, representing big hands when people's thought processes go 'I have an ace, I'll call' on a flop of KT8. Don't do this. For your purposes, gambling just means things like taking coinflips for small chunks of your stack or getting huge odds; that will be far more helpful.

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So what would you have me do in these tournaments where people say "I have an ace. Im going to call." Do you suggest a TAG style of play? It just seems like everytime I do use a TAG style I finish just outside of the money or just make it.

[ QUOTE ]
1)The call is actually not THAT bad solely because you have the button behind 3 limpers (though T8s is vastly better.) If you don't know how to play this hand well postflop, though, it's bad. So anyway, you bet the pot on a paired board with 5 people in it when it got checked to you and turned a flush draw into 72o because you couldn't call a raise. Don't do that and just take your free card.

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So your saying that the hand was good up to that point? I had two overcards to the board as well as a flush draw. But when I bet it and got reraised my hand turned to a junk hand that I had to raise.

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6: Bad beat post, don't do this.

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Im not trying to say its a bad beat. My aces get beat from time to time and I can live with that. But what I was asking was that if I had played this any other way, could I have won? In the hand I talk about just flat calling him and then pushing it on the flop. Maybe he would think me for a flush or kings. Would he then be able to call an all in call with just middle pair in his hand a flush draw?

[ QUOTE ]
12: Frankly I would just push this perfect flop; the pot is big and you want it. PF, you're calling off 10% of your stack with very little against people who will not fold (you should've learned this from hand 11 BTW) if they hit anything.

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You mean go all in on the flop here?