Would you consider this to be an insult?
 

I made a thread in the WPT forum about a black female player, saying she should be referred to as H-DOG for Human Delay Of Game. It was deleted by a moderator for being "insulting", who said that he always deletes insulting threads(....). Either way, I didn't post it as an insult, I posted it as a funny-descriptive way to identify a player who we will likely be seeing a LOT of come ESPN WSOP season. The fact that she is a female and black had NOTHING to do with my post; if it were Burt Rice instead, I;d have posted the same thing. Looking for opinions on the matter, and since this is News, VIEWS, and GOSSIP, I'd say this is the proper forum for this, but I guess time will tell. If this is insulting, methinks E-Dog may need some explaining to then.

anywho, on to the poll;

Re: Would you consider this to be an insult?
 

Of course it's insulting, but I can see no race or gender basis.

What I find appalling are the many negative characterizations of her that ARE based in race, gender or attractiveness. If you are a man, you've gotta be X-22 before people start busting on your looks. If you are a woman and fall shy of Shannon Elizabeth, you are busted on mercilessly.

Re: Would you consider this to be an insult?
 

[ QUOTE ]
If you are a man, you've gotta be X-22 before people start busting on your looks. If you are a woman and fall shy of Shannon Elizabeth, you are busted on mercilessly.

[/ QUOTE ]

Word. I agree.

Imagine if X-22 were a woman.

Re: Would you consider this to be an insult?
 

i dont know why she is a human delay of game and i dont really care. to be honest, i dont think polls like this need to be created and i dont think that topics need to be formed about your thoughts on a poker player, albeit humorous.

we have more members than ever before and i think as an attempt to unclutter the forums us veteran posters have to stop posting random crap if we expect the same from others.

Re: Would you consider this to be an insult?
 

[ QUOTE ]
i dont know why she is a human delay of game and i dont really care. to be honest, i dont think polls like this need to be created and i dont think that topics need to be formed about your thoughts on a poker player, albeit humorous.

we have more members than ever before and i think as an attempt to unclutter the forums us veteran posters have to stop posting random crap if we expect the same from others.

[/ QUOTE ]

Topics don't need to be posted on on my thoughts on a poker player? I'm sorry, I thought this was a DISCUSSION forum, and the News, VIEWS and GOSSIP forum. EVERYTHING is random crap, including any dissertation on how to play AKo to a minraise out of position in a 10-20 NL game.

P.S. If you watch any of the WSOP later, you will find out why she is a Human Delay Of Game. A conservative estimate put the # of times the clock has been put on her the tournament at 80.

Re: Would you consider this to be an insult?
 

***STAMP***

Re: Would you consider this to be an insult?
 

[ QUOTE ]
What I find appalling are the many negative characterizations of her that ARE based in race, gender or attractiveness. If you are a man, you've gotta be X-22 before people start busting on your looks. If you are a woman and fall shy of Shannon Elizabeth, you are busted on mercilessly.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm missing something here. Why is this appalling?

Re: Would you consider this to be an insult?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What I find appalling are the many negative characterizations of her that ARE based in race, gender or attractiveness. If you are a man, you've gotta be X-22 before people start busting on your looks. If you are a woman and fall shy of Shannon Elizabeth, you are busted on mercilessly.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm missing something here. Why is this appalling?

[/ QUOTE ]

If you don't know why it is appalling that someone is being negatively characterized according to race, gender or attractiveness, you are either incredibly dense, or have been spending too much time in OOT.

Re: Would you consider this to be an insult?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If you are a man, you've gotta be X-22 before people start busting on your looks. If you are a woman and fall shy of Shannon Elizabeth, you are busted on mercilessly.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you don't know why it is appalling that someone is being negatively characterized according to race, gender or attractiveness, you are either incredibly dense, or have been spending too much time in OOT.

[/ QUOTE ]

This was really about looks & gender, not race. But yea. I definitely prefer to be around hot chicks. Why would I want to be around ugly ones? If you say that a woman's looks are completely unimportant to you, then you're just a liar, whether it's to yourself or just everyone else.

Re: Would you consider this to be an insult?
 

[ QUOTE ]

This was really about looks & gender, not race. But yea. I definitely prefer to be around hot chicks. Why would I want to be around ugly ones? If you say that a woman's looks are completely unimportant to you, then you're just a liar, whether it's to yourself or just everyone else.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with the above, but it stops short of the main issue. Your attitude about anyone, particularly soneone of the opposite sex, is always going to be influenced by their physical appearance.

The point is that anyone with any maturity and class does not make derogatory remarks about another's looks, particularly in a public forum where that person might see them. It is hurtful, it is pointless, and it is high-school crap.

BTW, it's true the other way too. News flash for all you horny 17 year olds out there: no one cares who you would or would not "hit".

Re: Would you consider this to be an insult?
 

i dont mean to offend you and my remarks arent directed specifically at you in particular. this is an open forum and all content is allowed within the judgment of the moderators hands. you are allowed to disagree with me, but i still stand my by opinion that topics offering little content, or no content should not be posted. it is a waste of forum space. if you have a slightly funny comment like the one you came up with, it seems that it should be posted in someone elses thread.

Re: Would you consider this to be an insult?
 

[ QUOTE ]
The point is that anyone with any maturity and class does not make derogatory remarks about another's looks, particularly in a public forum where that person might see them. It is hurtful, it is pointless, and it is high-school crap.

[/ QUOTE ]

Spoken like someone with an ugly women looking over his shoulder. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Would you consider this to be an insult?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If you are a man, you've gotta be X-22 before people start busting on your looks. If you are a woman and fall shy of Shannon Elizabeth, you are busted on mercilessly.

[/ QUOTE ]

Word. I agree.

Imagine if X-22 were a woman.

[/ QUOTE ]

I just threw up a little in my mouth.

Re: Would you consider this to be an insult?
 

That's ridiculous. That guy was really over-reacting.

Re: Would you consider this to be an insult?
 

[ QUOTE ]
i dont think polls like this need to be created and i dont think that topics need to be formed about your thoughts on a poker player, albeit humorous.



[/ QUOTE ]

STFU you nit....your in a news, views, and gossip forum. This forum is for exactly that...please go put your soapbox behind a 7-11 or something, and preach to the rats. [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

Re: Would you consider this to be an insult?
 

TStone says [ QUOTE ]
i dont mean to offend you and my remarks arent directed specifically at you in particular. this is an open forum and all content is allowed within the judgment of the moderators hands. you are allowed to disagree with me, but i still stand my by opinion that topics offering little content, or no content should not be posted. it is a waste of forum space. if you have a slightly funny comment like the one you came up with, it seems that it should be posted in someone elses thread.

[/ QUOTE ]

Daliman clearly says [ QUOTE ]
I made a thread in the WPT forum

[/ QUOTE ]

It was his thread to begin with...

Re: Would you consider this to be an insult?
 

i think the moderators are getting a little carried away in more instances than just this. IMHO.

Re: Would you consider this to be an insult?
 

WPT would be better if there were more threads about how players player and not what they looked like or what they said. The less useless threads like yours, the better.

Re: Would you consider this to be an insult?
 

Yea. So what. There are many insults here.

Re: Would you consider this to be an insult?
 

When Dynasty started moderating in the WPT forum, he asked what changes we'd most like to see. The most frequently referenced and widely agreed upon suggestion was that posts that made fun of professional players had driven away many pros and discouraged them from posting on 2+2. That's what you were doing. That's why your post was deleted IMO.

Re: Would you consider this to be an insult?
 

[ QUOTE ]
When Dynasty started moderating in the WPT forum, he asked what changes we'd most like to see. The most frequently referenced and widely agreed upon suggestion was that posts that made fun of professional players had driven away many pros and discouraged them from posting on 2+2. That's what you were doing. That's why your post was deleted IMO.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't see it that way at all.......

When Daliman made the post and coined the term H-DOG, didn't he explain what it was an acronym for? I don't see that as out of bounds at all...

Calling a player a Human Rain Delay goes to the issue of style of play. It is entirely unlike some of the mean-spirited comments that I've seen here that transcend decency and get personal.

FWIW, as far as Dynasty goes? I think he is getting way out of line lately. I don't know the man, have never met him, but in watching his actions as a moderator as of late, I think he should take 3 giant steps back and consider some of the inconsistency's of his actions.........

Re: Would you consider this to be an insult?
 

[ QUOTE ]
WPT would be better if there were more threads about how players player and not what they looked like or what they said. The less useless threads like yours, the better.

[/ QUOTE ]

So, in other words, since mine was a specific commentary on how a player plays, you are in full agreement with me. Good to know.

Re: Would you consider this to be an insult?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
When Dynasty started moderating in the WPT forum, he asked what changes we'd most like to see. The most frequently referenced and widely agreed upon suggestion was that posts that made fun of professional players had driven away many pros and discouraged them from posting on 2+2. That's what you were doing. That's why your post was deleted IMO.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't see it that way at all.......

When Daliman made the post and coined the term H-DOG, didn't he explain what it was an acronym for? I don't see that as out of bounds at all...

Calling a player a Human Rain Delay goes to the issue of style of play. It is entirely unlike some of the mean-spirited comments that I've seen here that transcend decency and get personal.

FWIW, as far as Dynasty goes? I think he is getting way out of line lately. I don't know the man, have never met him, but in watching his actions as a moderator as of late, I think he should take 3 giant steps back and consider some of the inconsistency's of his actions.........

[/ QUOTE ]

There was additional commentary in the original thread/post also where I ruminated over what can be done in the future when someone employs these kinds of tactics in a tournament, but alas, it got deleted. Many are now finding out what i knew EARLY on; Inmate running the asylum.

Habitual Stallers Deserve To Be Insulted And Reprimanded
 

Anyone who had the clock called on them 80 TIMES (according to Dali), deserves to be insulted at least 70 times.

Repeated stalling is very bad for poker. If she was really as guilty of stalling as I've gathered from reading the forum, then she not only deserved to be insulted, but to be BOOED by the crowd.

A long decision on occasion is one thing, but having the clock called on her 3 times in one hand is another. And is it true that she actually took 15 MINUTES TO MAKE ONE DECISION? And had the clock called on her countless times?

If all that's essentially true, then "H-DOG" is a very mild nickname for her--or for any player who frequently and deliberately makes the game unpleasant, boring and excruciatingly slow for everyone else.

Re: Would you consider this to be an insult?
 

[ QUOTE ]
i dont know why she is a human delay of game and i dont really care. to be honest, i dont think polls like this need to be created and i dont think that topics need to be formed about your thoughts on a poker player, albeit humorous.

we have more members than ever before and i think as an attempt to unclutter the forums us veteran posters have to stop posting random crap if we expect the same from others.

[/ QUOTE ]

this post is a joke, right?

Re: Habitual Stallers Deserve To Be Insulted And Reprimanded
 

[ QUOTE ]
Anyone who had the clock called on them 80 TIMES (according to Dali), deserves to be insulted at least 70 times.

Repeated stalling is very bad for poker. If she was really as guilty of stalling as I've gathered from reading the forum, then she not only deserved to be insulted, but to be BOOED by the crowd.

A long decision on occasion is one thing, but having the clock called on her 3 times in one hand is another. And is it true that she actually took 15 MINUTES TO MAKE ONE DECISION? And had the clock called on her countless times?

If all that's essentially true, then "H-DOG" is a very mild nickname for her--or for any player who frequently and deliberately makes the game unpleasant, boring and excruciatingly slow for everyone else.

[/ QUOTE ]


I was only really guessing at 80 times, but I got the 3 times in one hand from posted accounts online, and even once where she did it while considering her play versus A STANDARD PREFLOP RAISE. 80 times may be an exaggeration, but from what I hear, it could EASILY be a big undershot too.

Also, in the 15 minute decision hand, it was said that she got up from her seat and WENT OVER TO A FRIEND TO ASK THEM WHAT SHE SHOULD DO! She had to be told by the other player in the hand that she couldn't do that. Weak sauce.

Re: Would you consider this to be an insult?
 

[ QUOTE ]
If you are a woman and fall shy of Shannon Elizabeth, you are busted on mercilessly.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is because poker players, on the whole, are attractive and take care of their bodies to please the ladies. CYA at the gym...

Re: Would you consider this to be an insult?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i dont think polls like this need to be created and i dont think that topics need to be formed about your thoughts on a poker player, albeit humorous.



[/ QUOTE ]

STFU you nit....your in a news, views, and gossip forum. This forum is for exactly that...please go put your soapbox behind a 7-11 or something, and preach to the rats. [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

ROFL


FWIW, I have a friend who was in her table the 1st day and she has the clock called on her many, many times.

Re: Would you consider this to be an insult?
 

I don't see anything wrong with your post.

Re: Habitual Stallers Deserve To Be Insulted And Reprimanded
 

[ QUOTE ]
Anyone who had the clock called on them 80 TIMES (according to Dali), deserves to be insulted at least 70 times.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wrong. you want to change the rules..then fine. But if the rules allow a player to take his time then there is nothing wrong with using the rules to your advantage. I would agree that the rule should be something like one clock per tournament before a penalty or one per round or something like that. But don't fault somone for playing within the rules.

P.S. Just so you know - I love you MMMMMMM

Vince

Re: Habitual Stallers Deserve To Be Insulted And Reprimanded
 

I think she may have abused it a bit or alot, but they shouldn't allow you that much time if they don't want someone to use it. She is operating within the rules.

Re: Habitual Stallers Deserve To Be Insulted And Reprimanded
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Anyone who had the clock called on them 80 TIMES (according to Dali), deserves to be insulted at least 70 times.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wrong. you want to change the rules..then fine. But if the rules allow a player to take his time then there is nothing wrong with using the rules to your advantage. I would agree that the rule should be something like one clock per tournament before a penalty or one per round or something like that. But don't fault somone for playing within the rules.

P.S. Just so you know - I love you MMMMMMM

Vince

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, insulting someone isnlt against any rules either. Neither would screaming at the top of your lungs directly into her face while she "thought". You know better than to say just because something isnlt specifically against the rules, that doesn't make it ok. Steriods weren;t illegal in MLB until a few years ago, was that ok?

Re: Habitual Stallers Deserve To Be Insulted And Reprimanded
 

I don't think its right for you to sream at he at the top of your lungs. I don't blame you for not liking it. But call a clock and leave it up to the tourney director to decide how long she has. Its like in online tournies many people stall in online tournies. And the ones that don't stall are at a disadvantage to the ones that do. They allow you time ansd everybody else stalls. But there will always be one or 2 guys at the table screaming at the staller and calling them all kinds of names. I always see those guys as totally out of line. Who are they to yell at the person and curse at them. If you don't like stalling in tournies take it up with a rules committee to eliminating the possibility. But as long as they allow it the short stacks that don't stall are at a disatvantage to the other tables short stacks that are stalling. So do they speed up so they don't get called all kinds of explitives by someone they don't know and be at a disadvantage or stall and take the heat? Stalling should be eliminated. But until its not if your not stalling when short your not getting the edge otyher short stacks are.

I'm not sure about this but didn't we have a tourney discussion like amonth ago where you said you would use any advantage to your benefit to make the most money you can. i think we were discussing calling the f word rule on a player to have her out and blinded down. Why is this any different? She is playing for BIG money and is stalling to move up spots which could be life changing to her. What more important to her in her life the money for her family? or some guy screaming at her to speed up?

They should limit the time drastically so that noone can take that long. But until they do its the rules fault that this can occur.

Re: Habitual Stallers Deserve To Be Insulted And Reprimanded
 

Anyone who had the clock called on them 80 TIMES (according to Dali), deserves to be insulted at least 70 times.
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Wrong. you want to change the rules..then fine. But if the rules allow a player to take his time then there is nothing wrong with using the rules to your advantage. I would agree that the rule should be something like one clock per tournament before a penalty or one per round or something like that. But don't fault somone for playing within the rules.
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But I do fault people for things like that, when done to great excess. And I think they should be roundly leaned on, shamed, insulted and verbally hammered until they start showing everyone else at the table a modicum of courtesy. Why? Because if they do it repeatedly and consistently they're obviously doing it deliberately.

Re: Habitual Stallers Deserve To Be Insulted And Reprimanded
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think she may have abused it a bit or alot, but they shouldn't allow you that much time if they don't want someone to use it. She is operating within the rules.

[/ QUOTE ]

OK--try to imagine how your $15-$30 game would go if there was a player doing this on every hand, every decision? And remember, you can't quit or ask for a table change.

Would you think it's OK because it's within the rules? And what if it happened all week long?

I don't know how you would react, Smoothcall...but somehow I don't think this is something Vince would put up with for very long;-)

Re: Habitual Stallers Deserve To Be Insulted And Reprimanded
 

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think its right for you to sream at he at the top of your lungs. I don't blame you for not liking it. But call a clock and leave it up to the tourney director to decide how long she has. Its like in online tournies many people stall in online tournies. And the ones that don't stall are at a disadvantage to the ones that do. They allow you time ansd everybody else stalls. But there will always be one or 2 guys at the table screaming at the staller and calling them all kinds of names. I always see those guys as totally out of line. Who are they to yell at the person and curse at them. If you don't like stalling in tournies take it up with a rules committee to eliminating the possibility. But as long as they allow it the short stacks that don't stall are at a disatvantage to the other tables short stacks that are stalling. So do they speed up so they don't get called all kinds of explitives by someone they don't know and be at a disadvantage or stall and take the heat? Stalling should be eliminated. But until its not if your not stalling when short your not getting the edge otyher short stacks are.

I'm not sure about this but didn't we have a tourney discussion like amonth ago where you said you would use any advantage to your benefit to make the most money you can. i think we were discussing calling the f word rule on a player to have her out and blinded down. Why is this any different? She is playing for BIG money and is stalling to move up spots which could be life changing to her. What more important to her in her life the money for her family? or some guy screaming at her to speed up?

They should limit the time drastically so that noone can take that long. But until they do its the rules fault that this can occur.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is just silly logic. If you are going to operate on the premise "if it's within the rules, it's ok to do" then there is absolutely NO difference between taking a long time to make a decision and berrating someone for doing so. You think insulting someone is out of line, i think taking a long time to make a decision intentionally is probably moreso. The bottom line is, both are within the rules but neither are "Ok".

If you want to pretend like it's "ok" for someone to deliberately make long decisions frequently then don't be surprised when people insult her. If she has a problem with it, as you said, she can ask that the rules be changed.

Re: Habitual Stallers Deserve To Be Insulted And Reprimanded
 

In the various situations in question I would blame the tourney-directors more for not doing anything about it then for the player doing the actual stalling.

Re: Habitual Stallers Deserve To Be Insulted And Reprimanded
 

I would call the floor if someone did that in my 15-30 game. It would not be within the rules the floorperson would tell her she needs to act now or leave the casino or whatever. There is a difference in that, and in a tourney when allowed very much time to act. Did u completely skip by my online example where everybody stalls?

I don't see the relevance of telling me what vince would do or not do. I hope your not implying we are the same person?

Re: Habitual Stallers Deserve To Be Insulted And Reprimanded
 

exactly!

Re: Habitual Stallers Deserve To Be Insulted And Reprimanded
 

If its within the rules then how is it silly logic. She is allowed to do it whether you like it or not. If people don't like it write to tournament directors to get the time reduced. And your example is ridiculously silly. I am allowed to take time. You cannot berate me. You can until i call a floor guy and if you don't stop your butt is gone from the tourney. Mine is not. I wonder why that is? Oh i know. One is within the rules and the other is inappropriate behavior that will get you thrown out of the tournament. Come and try chastizing me in a b&m cardroom while i'm making my decision and see how fast your out the door. While your on your way home i'll still be taking my alloted time.