2 hands with river questions
 

$1/$2NL

Hand #1) UTG, UTG+1 and MP limp. I raise to $12 with AA on the button. Only UTG+1 calls.

Hero ($350) Villain ($200). Ive never seen him before.

Pot is $31. Flop comes 752 with 2 clubs (I dont have Ac). he checks and I bet $24. he calls

Pot $79. Turn is a J (no flush) He checks, I bet $45 and he calls.

Pot $169. River is another 2. He checks and I check behind. I seem to do this alot. Check behind I mean. If he had me beat, he probably wouldve check raised the turn. But it seems that every time I get more aggressive on the river, I do it at the wrong time, so I revert back to passive river action.

What do you do on the river?


Hand #2) A new guy posted a blind in the cutoff. I open raise to $10 with AQ in MP. Folded to the SB who calls.

Hes brand new so no reads. We both have about $200

Pot is $24. The flop comes J92 rainbow. He checks and I bet $16 which he calls.

Pot is $56. Turn is a T. He leads out for $16. At this point I have no idea what he has. I have an openender getting 4.5:1 so I call.

Pot is $88. River is an ace. He checks. Im not confident enough that my ace gave me the winner to bet it. I check behind. I had almost exactly the right odds to call the turn bet just counting my outs to the straight, so I guess my turn call is still correct even if im not going to bet an ace , correct?

Re: 2 hands with river questions
 

I play these both almost exactly the same way. I don't think you can bet either river as you can't really expect worse hands to call you. With a read that opponent is a calling station, you could bet for value but without a read, I think checking behind is better in both cases.

Re: 2 hands with river questions
 

I dunno, I'd probably make a smallish value bet on both of these rivers, folding to a raise.

On the second hand, you've got to be ahead. He led for under 1/3 of the pot on the turn and checked the river. Your A high Q kicker is very likely good there.

The first hand is tougher. Maybe it's a check, I'm torn. I'd probably make a very small value bet.. maybe $45. At 1/2 NL he's unlikely to make a move and come over the top unless he's ahead. You've shown a lot of strength and it's very likely that you're ahead here. He obviously folds if he has a flush draw but if he has 88-TT, he'll probably call and you'll be glad you bet it.

Ryan

Re: 2 hands with river questions
 

First hand, I bet a bit more on the turn, around $60. I like the river check. Betting again sticks you. Second hand, I like all the way except I probably bet more on the flop if I'm betting more on the flop with AA (first hand). I don't think you are missing a lot of value, if any, by not value betting such marginal hands here when he is unlikely to pay you off with a worse hand. Even though you are more than 50% to be ahead, I doubt you are more than 50% to be ahead when called.

Re: 2 hands with river questions
 

value bet both hands, fold to a big raise.

Re: 2 hands with river questions
 

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value bet both hands, fold to a big raise.

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1 - do you really expect to be ahead here over 50% when called?

2 - define "a big raise". any advice that uses generalities like that is worthless.

3 - if you're going to fold to a check-raise then you're better off checking behind and seeing showdown rather than making the potentially huge mistake of folding the best hand.

Re: 2 hands with river questions
 

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value bet both hands, fold to a big raise.

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1 - do you really expect to be ahead here over 50% when called?

2 - define "a big raise". any advice that uses generalities like that is worthless.

3 - if you're going to fold to a check-raise then you're better off checking behind and seeing showdown rather than making the potentially huge mistake of folding the best hand.

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Also none of these are deep-stacked enough for a big raise to be possible. So you have to either bet/fold or bet/call the only raises possible are pushes. And they both seem like they should be bet/fold except you would be getting pretty good odds in both places so they could very well be bet/calls but then you're backing your marginal hands with your stack which can't be right here, so I like checks.

Re: 2 hands with river questions
 

hand 1: i bet the river here. i feel like he could easily have a pp, maybe 88. in general most players will lead into you here with their set; i'd value bet here.

Re: 2 hands with river questions
 

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hand 1: i bet the river here. i feel like he could easily have a pp, maybe 88. in general most players will lead into you here with their set; i'd value bet here.

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I think in hand #1 I should definatley value bet. I cant believe he would check the river to me with a monster hand. He doesnt have enough left in relation to the pot to check raise bluff me. He had JT of clubs.

Re: 2 hands with river questions
 

This is why you need to bet the turn more. He should c/r this turn all-in, by the way, and you should fold. And your check behind is good. I don't see what value you think you have in betting the river. Even with top pair here, he's not going to pay you off most likely. What are you betting with on all three streets?

Re: 2 hands with river questions
 

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This is why you need to bet the turn more. He should c/r this turn all-in, by the way, and you should fold. And your check behind is good. I don't see what value you think you have in betting the river. Even with top pair here, he's not going to pay you off most likely. What are you betting with on all three streets?

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I disagree with you here. He could easily talk himself into calling here by thinking "hmmm maybe he has 10 10 or 99, i'll call." Also, we don't know that he's on a flush draw, so he could have a pocket pair higher than the flop and just be a jackass calling station. I'll ask you a question, what hands that beat hero could you see villian checking three times?

Re: 2 hands with river questions
 

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This is why you need to bet the turn more. He should c/r this turn all-in, by the way, and you should fold. And your check behind is good. I don't see what value you think you have in betting the river. Even with top pair here, he's not going to pay you off most likely. What are you betting with on all three streets?

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You could be right that he wouldnt pay me off, but he does have TP and alot of people pay off with that all the time in my games. A good player wont do it, but is a good player calling $12 preflop with JTs out of position? I know, Im not.

Either way, my river play needs work in general. And youre right, if he check raises the turn all in, Im folding.

Re: 2 hands with river questions
 

check/raising the turn here would be great in my opinion because he might have the best hand, you might fold a better hand, and even if you call he has tons of outs. i know you know that, but just thought I'd mention in any case. It also makes him harder to play against in the future. And on the other point, I could see him checking a set three times (I have even seen it at NL100).

Re: 2 hands with river questions
 

I dont mind the second check behind as much as the first. With AA there i would bet the river one last time. ALthough he was prob on aflush draw and missed. Very few players there at 1-2 are patient enought to slow play a set or two pair. A check isnt horrible though as he prob wouldnt call with a busted flush. Still i think you should value bet the river. On the second hand there is way two much out there interms of possible straight or two pair to bet i like the check. One more note. On the AA hand you need to bet more than what you were bettign. You were giving him great odds to draw to the flush as you were betting approx half the pot. YOu should at least be 70% on the pot IE bet on the tunr you should have at least be 60 not 45. That wasnt enough IMO also people tend to pay even money on draws which is a mistake on their part. Make them pay for drawing again i think 60-70 was a better bet than 45 at lest 55 and up.

Re: 2 hands with river questions
 

Declining to take free showdowns with one pair makes it extremely easy for even the dumbest of players to trap you. I love those people that think they are so cute by always "value betting" their pair for 1/3 pot on the river. Their hand is completely transparent and I'll just keep checking my hands to them all night long. How sweet is it to get a guy to bet your hand for you THREE times? There's no way for them to salvage the situation at the end because I know their hand and they don't know mine.

Re: 2 hands with river questions
 

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Declining to take free showdowns with one pair makes it extremely easy for even the dumbest of players to trap you. I love those people that think they are so cute by always "value betting" their pair for 1/3 pot on the river. Their hand is completely transparent and I'll just keep checking my hands to them all night long. How sweet is it to get a guy to bet your hand for you THREE times? There's no way for them to salvage the situation at the end because I know their hand and they don't know mine.

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Hmmm..maybe my river play isnt as bad as I was thinking then, because I check behind alot in hands like this.

Re: 2 hands with river questions
 

First hand :

I would bet the river, value bets are major source of income at 200NL. I would fold to any checkraise against an unknown here.

Second hand:

I would definitely value bet here, I dont believe that Villain wouldnt bet 2pairs on this river, check with 2pair+ is very strange here.

Best wishes

Re: 2 hands with river questions
 

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Declining to take free showdowns with one pair makes it extremely easy for even the dumbest of players to trap you. I love those people that think they are so cute by always "value betting" their pair for 1/3 pot on the river. Their hand is completely transparent and I'll just keep checking my hands to them all night long. How sweet is it to get a guy to bet your hand for you THREE times? There's no way for them to salvage the situation at the end because I know their hand and they don't know mine.

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It's not like he's going to be making this play every time; he's not going to play that predictably. In this situation, i think that it's clear that hero is ahead, and if he's ahead, he should value bet. There's so many calling stations at this level that he can't afford to lose these extra bets. Sure, occasionally he's going to get slow played to the extreme, but the majority of the time in these situations, and specifically this situation, he's going to be ahead.

Re: 2 hands with river questions
 

in hand 1 i think if i was to value bet i'd push