Bubble hand disagreement
 

I agreed to check some HHs from a player having some problems on the 11s. I told the player that this hand must be open pushed from the SB, but he was unsure. I told him that I'd post the hand so that the forum could comment on it:

Total number of players : 5
> Seat 2: amystap (1895)
> Seat 3: hypnotic333 (2875)
> Seat 4: giants650 (1635)
> Seat 7: HERO (690)
> Seat 8: Lucky_Kicker (905)
> HERO posts small blind (75)
> Lucky_Kicker posts big blind (150)

> ** Dealing down cards **
> Dealt to HERO [ 6h, Qh ]
> amystap folds.
> hypnotic333 folds.
> giants650 folds.
> HERO calls (75)
> Lucky_Kicker raises (755) to 905
> Lucky_Kicker is all-In.
> HERO folds.

I told him that in this situation, open pushing here with Q6s should be automatic. He said that he would be "embarassed" if BB called and he got caught pushing Q6s here.

Comments?

Re: Bubble hand disagreement
 

Autopush.

Re: Bubble hand disagreement
 

I'm pushing with far less than Q6s here. Who cares about being "embarrassed"? If you're not called a kook at least once an SNG, you're usually doing something wrong.

Re: Bubble hand disagreement
 

he's gotta get his money in with best odds possible

he doesn't really have much FE against the other players...here is the one position in which he doesn't have to worry about those guys, so qxs is more than enough for me

Re: Bubble hand disagreement
 

You should push here. Being embarrassed, if caught is a major psychological weakness here and has to be overcome to be successful.

Re: Bubble hand disagreement
 

[ QUOTE ]
Who cares about being "embarrassed"? If you're not called a kook at least once an SNG, you're usually doing something wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Bubble hand disagreement
 

A call here is worse than a fold. Push this and virtually any 2 cards as this is the only time he/she will have any FE at all without picking up a pot. Your friend needs to grow some hair and worry less about his/her "image".

SlackerMcPoosh

Re: Bubble hand disagreement
 

pooosh

Re: Bubble hand disagreement
 

first - autopush with that stack in that position
second - I used to have the same problem he does about feeling silly getting caught. He must get over this. Any good player has seen it all before, probably very recently. Just yesterday, I cracked AA with t-7 from the SB and my QQ lost to a SB's 3-T. I told the 3-T nh. Anyone who berates you for pushing crap is just an idiot who doesn't know better, who cares what they think?

Re: Bubble hand disagreement
 

Insta push. I would be pushing with far less in that spot.

Re: Bubble hand disagreement
 

[ QUOTE ]
Autopush.

[/ QUOTE ]

But if you're giving this guy lessons or what not, you should explain why.

Re: Bubble hand disagreement
 

If your friend doesnt push with Q6o there in the SB then they are playing terrible poker and have absolutely no clue how to play sit and gos when the blinds get high. Folding this is probably akin to open folding KK UTG in the 10-15 round, thats how ridiculous this is.

Note that raising with Q6s is actually a value raise, as your hand is clearly strong enough to raise with only 4-5x the BB based on it's value alone. Your friend needs to learn the value of hands in shorthanded situations. Of course against a typical partypoker opponent you MUST push with any 2 cards here.

Re: Bubble hand disagreement
 

[ QUOTE ]
If your friend doesnt push with Q6o there in the SB then they are playing terrible poker and have absolutely no clue how to play sit and gos when the blinds get high. Folding this is probably akin to open folding KK UTG in the 10-15 round, thats how ridiculous this is.

Note that raising with Q6s is actually a value raise, as your hand is clearly strong enough to raise with only 4-5x the BB based on it's value alone. Your friend needs to learn the value of hands in shorthanded situations. Of course against a typical partypoker opponent you MUST push with any 2 cards here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks. The very reason that I posted this was because I wanted this person to know that this was not even a remotely close decision. I was very honest about the fact that I'm not an "expert" by any means, but just a player with good results at the 11s and 22s. I told him that he'd be shocked by the response that this hand would get on the forum.

This was the first hand history that I had reviewed. His play up until near bubble time was fine, but then he went into a shell.

He has since PM'd me and the forum has gotten through to him. (Although I am surprised to find out that he does, in fact, own Eastbay's tool and still did not see this as an obvious push.)

Re: Bubble hand disagreement
 

As far as image goes, it only gets harder!

Now that we have established that shorty will be pushing with any two rags here, it is time to figure out what we should be calling with in the BB.

Calling when you get 2.5:1 or better starts getting fun [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

They will call you worse than crazy when you call them down with 76s and suck out on them lol.

Pokerscott

Re: Bubble hand disagreement
 

The only exception to pushing here might be if he had pushed a lot recently. My first day after learning this concept resulted in spite calls b/c I was excessive. But I have successfully pushed w/ 23o, 72o here. Your friend should not get discouraged though... he may push and get called the first 5 times he tries this, but when he learns how, this strategy will accumulate a lot chips for him!

Re: Bubble hand disagreement
 

He has since PM'd me and the forum has gotten through to him. (Although I am surprised to find out that he does, in fact, own Eastbay's tool and still did not see this as an obvious push.)

[/ QUOTE ]

Could someone out there post of link to Eastbay's tool? Thanks.

Re: Bubble hand disagreement
 

Your friend is almost surely some sort of 'losing' player.

Not that there is anything wrong with that.

Yugoslav

Re: Bubble hand disagreement
 

[ QUOTE ]
The only exception to pushing here might be if he had pushed a lot recently.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wrong, still gotta push, and it's not even close.

Re: Bubble hand disagreement
 

[ QUOTE ]
Your friend is almost surely some sort of 'losing' player.

Not that there is anything wrong with that.

Yugoslav

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, yeah, he basically admitted that when he asked for help on this forum. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] And he's purchased Eastbay's program and posting on the forum in an effort to improve. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: Bubble hand disagreement
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The only exception to pushing here might be if he had pushed a lot recently.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wrong, still gotta push, and it's not even close.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think he means with a hand like 32o not Q6s. Either way Im very hard pressed not to push 32o against a typical $22-$33 partypoker opponent.

Re: Bubble hand disagreement
 

[ QUOTE ]
I told him that in this situation, open pushing here with Q6s should be automatic. He said that he would be "embarassed" if BB called and he got caught pushing Q6s here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Remind him that if your opponents don't think you suck, you are probably doing something wrong.

Re: Bubble hand disagreement
 

Insta-push.

Re: Bubble hand disagreement
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The only exception to pushing here might be if he had pushed a lot recently.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wrong, still gotta push, and it's not even close.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really, is that because of your friends chip size? Surely you would not push with a good stack... if you have pushed a lot recently (1-2 pushes each orbit). Maybe I went from no bubble play, to too aggressive bubble play, to too passive bubble play... I admit I still need work in bubble...

Re: Bubble hand disagreement
 

[ QUOTE ]


Really, is that because of your friends chip size? Surely you would not push with a good stack... if you have pushed a lot recently (1-2 pushes each orbit). Maybe I went from no bubble play, to too aggressive bubble play, to too passive bubble play... I admit I still need work in bubble...

[/ QUOTE ]

Stacksize and relative stacksize is everything in proper SNG play. Usually much more important than your actual hand in spots like this.

Re: Bubble hand disagreement
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


Really, is that because of your friends chip size? Surely you would not push with a good stack... if you have pushed a lot recently (1-2 pushes each orbit). Maybe I went from no bubble play, to too aggressive bubble play, to too passive bubble play... I admit I still need work in bubble...

[/ QUOTE ]

Stacksize and relative stacksize is everything in proper SNG play. Usually much more important than your actual hand in spots like this.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes.

Jeckyl - try to see the table in terms of # of BBs instead of chips. If someone has 2k chips on level 4, think of it as a 20xBB stack. Then it may be esaier to see configuration patterns and/or guess at your opponents' behavior.

Yugoslav

Re: Bubble hand disagreement
 

[ QUOTE ]
I agreed to check some HHs from a player having some problems on the 11s. I told the player that this hand must be open pushed from the SB, but he was unsure. I told him that I'd post the hand so that the forum could comment on it:

Total number of players : 5
> Seat 2: amystap (1895)
> Seat 3: hypnotic333 (2875)
> Seat 4: giants650 (1635)
> Seat 7: HERO (690)
> Seat 8: Lucky_Kicker (905)
> HERO posts small blind (75)
> Lucky_Kicker posts big blind (150)

> ** Dealing down cards **
> Dealt to HERO [ 6h, Qh ]
> amystap folds.
> hypnotic333 folds.
> giants650 folds.
> HERO calls (75)
> Lucky_Kicker raises (755) to 905
> Lucky_Kicker is all-In.
> HERO folds.

I told him that in this situation, open pushing here with Q6s should be automatic. He said that he would be "embarassed" if BB called and he got caught pushing Q6s here.

Comments?

[/ QUOTE ]

I would be more embarassed limping in the SB than pushing this. If the guy is worried about table image, tell him that only p[censored]s limp from the SB...

So what are you calling in BB with?
 

So what is the minimum hand that you would call his push if you were BB?

Re: So what are you calling in BB with?
 

I would push this with two uno cards...