Hellmuth lays down AK on a AA4 flop!?
 

2005-07-09 00:38:00
Title: Phil Hellmuth Dodges a Bullet
Log: After a hand at the featured table, Phil Hellmuth jumped out of his chair and pointed at his wife in the stands.


"Honey! Honey! That was the hand! I should have gone broke on the hand!"


He then described how he had A-K, the flop came out A-A-4, and restated that he should have gone broke.


"Except you forgot one thing -- I can dodge bullets, baby. I knew he had a full house!"


Expect to see this hand (and the exchange with his wife) on ESPN




After seeing this for the first time a few minutes ago I immediately went to the Day 1B thread and was astonished that no one had remarked upon this BIG laydown. I didn't even see a thread about it on the next 3 pages. Sorry, if this has been posted, but this is either the greatest laydown in history or the weak-tightest move of all time!

Re: Hellmuth lays down AK on a AA4 flop!?
 

We don't know anything more about this hand, do we?
Did he raise the flop, and then his opponent came
over the top? I guess we'll just have to watch it
on tv.

Re: Hellmuth lays down AK on a AA4 flop!?
 

it was in the day 1b thread. i think it was weak tight [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Hellmuth lays down AK on a AA4 flop!?
 

[ QUOTE ]
After seeing this for the first time a few minutes ago I immediately went to the Day 1B thread and was astonished that no one had remarked upon this BIG laydown. I didn't even see a thread about it on the next 3 pages. Sorry, if this has been posted, but this is either the greatest laydown in history or the weak-tightest move of all time!

[/ QUOTE ]

i saw it mentioned here one time last night and nobody responded to the poster. i have been waiting for the details because i did not belive that ONLY the flop cards were out there. i really want to hear the betting sequence that got him to lay down with only the flop showing. imho, this could be the greatest laydown i have ever seen. as i said, i don't know the sequence, but i also don't know how you fold this with only the flop out there of AA4. also, did the FH player show? how do we know for sure that it was a house? if i moved in to bluff PH off this, i would have claimed a house too. i want more on this story. i just want to know if the guy flipped the 44 up.

Re: Hellmuth lays down AK on a AA4 flop!?
 

I know this can't be true. Cardplayer has to b screwing up again. The only thing the guy could have that beats him is 44 and A4 and even then Hellmuth has seven outs for the 44 (win) and six for the A4 (win/split.)

Re: Hellmuth lays down AK on a AA4 flop!?
 

[ QUOTE ]

"Except you forgot one thing -- I can dodge bullets, baby. I knew he had a full house!"


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Did he have full house? I'd really like to know.

Re: Hellmuth lays down AK on a AA4 flop!?
 

[ QUOTE ]
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"Except you forgot one thing -- I can dodge bullets, baby. I knew he had a full house!"


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Did he have full house? I'd really like to know.

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I assume that Hellmuth folded and the guy didn't show because cardplayer said we'll know when it makes it to TV. They will almost certainly edit in this hand.

Re: Hellmuth lays down AK on a AA4 flop!?
 

Remember that when Hellmuth claims he had AK, he usually means AT, or something similar. He always exaggerates a bit.

Re: Hellmuth lays down AK on a AA4 flop!?
 

How can you put someone on a4??? Silly. Another stupid laydown. Remember what Harrington said in Vol 2 about people who tell him about their laying down even a set cause they are worried about a higher set and he thinks to himself "idiot"
Granted that may be for later tourney play but still...

Re: Hellmuth lays down AK on a AA4 flop!?
 

let's keep it semi-even for once...if David, Fossil, or Lederer made this laydown, there would be no doubt the other guy has the house and it was the greatest laydown ever. Phil H. does it and he is weak tight.

Re: Hellmuth lays down AK on a AA4 flop!?
 

I was there for it. Hellmuth raises, gets called by some old dude wearing an old millitary hat. Flop is AA4, and it is impossible. Old dude checks, hellmuth bets about 3k, and old dude goes all in. He puts on a big show, and folds AK face up, so proud of himself. Old dude I believe said he had A4, but never showed (as far as I could see). Phil definitely folded AK here.

Re: Hellmuth lays down AK on a AA4 flop!?
 

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let's keep it semi-even for once...if David, Fossil, or Lederer made this laydown, there would be no doubt the other guy has the house and it was the greatest laydown ever. Phil H. does it and he is weak tight.

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No. If Sklansky or Harrington or Lederer or Raymer made this laydown I would be even more astonished and confused. I actually like Hellmuth. I am not criticizing him, I am just amazed at this fold.

Re: Hellmuth lays down AK on a AA4 flop!?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I was there for it. Hellmuth raises, gets called by some old dude wearing an old millitary hat. Flop is AA4, and it is impossible. Old dude checks, hellmuth bets about 3k, and old dude goes all in. He puts on a big show, and folds AK face up, so proud of himself. Old dude I believe said he had A4, but never showed (as far as I could see). Phil definitely folded AK here.

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This must have been one massive all in.

Re: Hellmuth lays down AK on a AA4 flop!?
 

Phil had roughly 30k at this point, and if he said he was going to go broke, the other guy must have had him covered. I couldn't see his chips though.

Re: Hellmuth lays down AK on a AA4 flop!?
 

One problem with this fold is that if someone had a boat with A4 or 44 why would he make a big raise allin?

Re: Hellmuth lays down AK on a AA4 flop!?
 

Why wouldn't a FH slowplay?

Re: Hellmuth lays down AK on a AA4 flop!?
 

when you say that espn will edit this hand you mean you think they will make the other guy have A4 or 44 when he really doesnt just to make hellmuth look good?

Re: Hellmuth lays down AK on a AA4 flop!?
 

I think the guy that called Mr. Hellmuth weak-tight was joking.

Seriously, if it turns out that Mr. Hellmuth's opponent really had the full house, this is indeed the greatest laydown of all time. But if he didn't, it might bet the worst play in WSOP history.

Re: Hellmuth lays down AK on a AA4 flop!?
 

no he wasnt joking. phil hellmuth has been known to be severely weak tight and there is a strong possibility that that is the case in this hand.

Re: Hellmuth lays down AK on a AA4 flop!?
 

[ QUOTE ]
when you say that espn will edit this hand you mean you think they will make the other guy have A4 or 44 when he really doesnt just to make hellmuth look good?

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No. I thought someone might interpret it that way after I posted it. I just meant that they'll be sure to show the hand to see if Hellmuth was right so they can either mock him or praise him to the fullest if he's right. That's just good TV.

Re: Hellmuth lays down AK on a AA4 flop!?
 

A4 wouldnt be an unbeatable holding..it would be possible to be drawn out on, ie: King ont he turn. But possibly this player was confident that hellmuth held an ace and would make the call. INteresting/amazing hand/laydown either way. Say what you want about the guy but he really has to be one of the best no limit tourney players ever to play the game, and his reads are truly remarkable at times.
-$LL$

Re: Hellmuth lays down AK on a AA4 flop!?
 

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I think the guy that called Mr. Hellmuth weak-tight was jopking .

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Re: Hellmuth lays down AK on a AA4 flop!?
 

[ QUOTE ]
A4 wouldnt be an unbeatable holding..it would be possible to be drawn out on, ie: King ont he turn. But possibly this player was confident that hellmuth held an ace and would make the call. INteresting/amazing hand/laydown either way. Say what you want about the guy but he really has to be one of the best no limit tourney players ever to play the game, and his reads are truly remarkable at times.
-$LL$

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Plus he picks up three more outs no matter what the turn card (except a 4.)

Re: Hellmuth lays down AK on a AA4 flop!?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
A4 wouldnt be an unbeatable holding..it would be possible to be drawn out on, ie: King ont he turn. But possibly this player was confident that hellmuth held an ace and would make the call. INteresting/amazing hand/laydown either way. Say what you want about the guy but he really has to be one of the best no limit tourney players ever to play the game, and his reads are truly remarkable at times.
-$LL$

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Plus he picks up three more outs no matter what the turn card (except a 4.)

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Yah, depends what the guy has. He's better off if he's holding 44 than A4.

Re: Hellmuth lays down AK on a AA4 flop!?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think the guy that called Mr. Hellmuth weak-tight was joking.

Seriously, if it turns out that Mr. Hellmuth's opponent really had the full house, this is indeed the greatest laydown of all time. But if he didn't, it might bet the worst play in WSOP history.

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What the other player actually had has no bearing on the validity of the fold.

From the source
 

I just chatted with Phil at his booth, between autographs, and he said the flop was NOT AA4, but A44. There was a raise or two preflop, checked by both on the flop, and then a bet and raise on the turn (Q), and Phil folded AK face-up. After a little while, the opponent showed AA. The facts about the betting action might be wrong, as I'm not sure I remember them perfectly.

later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)

Re: From the source
 

[ QUOTE ]
I just chatted with Phil at his booth, between autographs, and he said the flop was NOT AA4, but A44. There was a raise or two preflop, checked by both on the flop, and then a bet and raise on the turn (Q), and Phil folded AK face-up. After a little while, the opponent showed AA. The facts about the betting action might be wrong, as I'm not sure I remember them perfectly.

later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)

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this makes far more sense than previous reports. definately not the toughest laydown ever.

thanks for the info.

Re: From the source
 

[ QUOTE ]
I just chatted with Phil at his booth, between autographs, and he said the flop was NOT AA4, but A44. There was a raise or two preflop, checked by both on the flop, and then a bet and raise on the turn (Q), and Phil folded AK face-up. After a little while, the opponent showed AA. The facts about the betting action might be wrong, as I'm not sure I remember them perfectly.

later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)

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This also makes sense with the "I can dodge bullets" comment that he made. Fossilman rules.

Re: From the source
 

Those goddamn drama queens at Cardplayer are always exagerating. [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

Re: From the source
 

Wait until ESPN doctors it up

Re: From the source
 

"I should have gone broke this hand." If he really said that, it's easy to see why he gets 0wn3d playing real poker.

Re: From the source
 

Thanks for clearing things up Greg. I had a hard time seeing the cards watching the TV table, and it is quite difficult to follow the betting action from a distance.

Best of luck on day 2! I just wish I could follow you on your shortcuts through the back rooms to the bathrooms on the breaks in the tournament, rather than watch from the rail.

Re: Hellmuth lays down AK on a AA4 flop!?
 

[ QUOTE ]
After seeing this for the first time a few minutes ago I immediately went to the Day 1B thread and was astonished that no one had remarked upon this BIG laydown. I didn't even see a thread about it on the next 3 pages. Sorry, if this has been posted, but this is either the greatest laydown in history or the weak-tightest move of all time!

[/ QUOTE ]

Making great laydowns is vastly over rated.

Re: From the source
 

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Best of luck on day 2!

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Thanks.

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I just wish I could follow you on your shortcuts through the back rooms to the bathrooms on the breaks in the tournament, rather than watch from the rail.

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Heh! I don't get any of this. I stand in line with everybody else.

Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)

Re: From the source
 

You did stand in line, but you knew some secret shortcut through the shop to get TO the line faster. If you see some crazy maniac screaming at you, it's probably me. TAKE THIS HOME RAYMER!!

Re: Hellmuth lays down AK on a AA4 flop!?
 

INCONCEIVABLE!

Re: From the source
 

Don't wait in line. walk all the way to the casino - perhaps taking the outside route. No lines.

But you might have to put a paper bag over your head to avoid autograph hunters stopping you every five yards.

Re: Hellmuth lays down AK on a AA4 flop!?
 

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One problem with this fold is that if someone had a boat with A4 or 44 why would he make a big raise allin?

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This line of thinking gets me into trouble fairly often.

Re: From the source
 

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But you might have to put a paper bag over your head to avoid autograph hunters stopping you every five yards.

[/ QUOTE ]
This line of thinking gets me into trouble fairly often.